Trump as tragicomedy

[moda0306]

So a Palestinian woman should feel lucky and appreciative to live in the country who has helped Israel devastate her population, but a bloated Trust Fund Baby inheritor of hundreds of millions of dollars of daddy's money (and also lucky to be American vs living in several dozen alternatives) is a victim of "thu mediuh" and issues rightful scorn to libruls?

Only in America, indeed.

[Cortopassi]

If you have the time, Cillizza does these quite a lot. If you are a Trump supporter, don't even bother reading his inserted comments, rather just read how Trump talks. It is like drunk babbling at times.

He does this a lot, the maybe yes, maybe no comments. Is it to cover his ass both ways whatever the outcome?

Anyway, the next couple years will be fun to watch.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/politics ... index.html

[dualstow]

I’m shocked. I had no idea JacksonM was a Muslim woman!

I have only a high school education in grammar. How could I have better said what I did to indicate I was not the Muslim woman I was talking about and avoid the confusion?

You didn’t say anything wrong. I was just purposely misinterpreting- my lame attempt at humor. I was away from the third to the tenth. (yes, I posted on the 6th). Interesting to read the intense replies that came in while I was gone. Whew.

[dualstow]

So a Palestinian woman should feel lucky and appreciative to live in the country who has helped Israel devastate her population,

Yes she should. The head chopping line is valid (ooh, that would make a nice out-of-context sig line). Here’s the thing about coming into/being born in America: you don’t get to magically make your country act on the side of your homeland or ancestry or ethnicity, because your “enemies” are here, too, lobbying in their direction, not yours. However, you do have freedoms that you probably would not have in grandma’s country. (Redneck accent) And if you don’t like it, you can git the hell out.

Moda, I spent some of November and December reading about the mass ethnic cleansing of Jews in Iraq. I’m confused: should I be happy that my country invaded Iraq and bungled nation-building there (payback), or should I be happy that we made an honest effort (maybe they’ll eventually become a democracy and will even let the Jews back in someday?)

[WiseOne]

I'm sure our Muslim congresswomen are indeed happy to be living in a country where they can do things like drive, leave the house alone, hold public office, and not be killed for violating restrictive social mores.

Which is not incompatible with disliking Trump. I just hope they stop and think for a moment that this wonderful state of freedom is inextricably linked with other people's freedom to hold different political views from their own.

[dualstow]

Amen. I wish both sides would stop and think about that.

[Mountaineer]

I'm sure our Muslim congresswomen are indeed happy to be living in a country where they can do things like drive, leave the house alone, hold public office, and not be killed for violating restrictive social mores.

Which is not incompatible with disliking Trump. I just hope they stop and think for a moment that this wonderful state of freedom is inextricably linked with other people's freedom to hold different political views from their own.

Well said!

[moda0306]

So a Palestinian woman should feel lucky and appreciative to live in the country who has helped Israel devastate her population,

Yes she should. The head chopping line is valid (ooh, that would make a nice out-of-context sig line). Here’s the thing about coming into/being born in America: you don’t get to magically make your country act on the side of your homeland or ancestry or ethnicity, because your “enemies” are here, too, lobbying in their direction, not yours. However, you do have freedoms that you probably would not have in grandma’s country. (Redneck accent) And if you don’t like it, you can git the hell out.

Moda, I spent some of November and December reading about the mass ethnic cleansing of Jews in Iraq. I’m confused: should I be happy that my country invaded Iraq and bungled nation-building there (payback), or should I be happy that we made an honest effort (maybe they’ll eventually become a democracy and will even let the Jews back in someday?)

Your first part leaves out the entire second half of my question. Generally, I think we all should feel a lot luckier, whether we're a Palestinian living in America, an "overtaxed" whiner pulling in $150-300k during the best time to be alive with an upper-middle-class income, or an obese trust-fund-baby who acts like the world's largest victim and god's gift to negotiating. We all have it pretty good, historically.

And I don't know what your latter false-dichotomy has to do with anything I mentioned. I don't think you should be "happy" with either option as one is vindictive, murderous and engaging in collectivist violence on a disgusting scale, and the other is false and wreaks of being a cuck to our national security establishment that only seems to have distaste for murderous regimes when they cease being a profitable partner to elite capital interests. I don't know if there was more hidden message to your question but if there was it blew over my head.

[dualstow]

Your first part leaves out the entire second half of my question.

Right, the Trump thing. We are in agreement on Trump. And as WiseOne pointed out, disliking Trump does not mean she takes her freedoms for granted.

And I don't know what your latter false-dichotomy has to do with anything I mentioned.
...
I don't know if there was more hidden message to your question but if there was it blew over my head.

No hidden message, but what I supplied was context and what you supplied was far closer to a false dichotomy. Trump does not hail from a head-chopping nation, nor do his ancestors. Like Tlaib, I'm sure he's happy to have grown up in the U.S., but his media complaints are neither here nor there. (But again, you and I probably have the same feelings regarding him).

And by the way, she lied about her stance on Israel before the primary. Not an auspicious beginning for this young politician. I don't see any more reason to take her at her word than Trump at his.

[Kriegsspiel]

On Tlaib’s candidate page on the J Street PAC website, on which supporters can donate to her directly, the description states that Tlaib “believes that the U.S. should be directly involved with negotiations to reach a two-state solution. Additionally, she supports all current aid to Israel and the Palestinian Authority, particularly to fund initiatives that ‘foster peace, as well as economic and humanitarian services.’ Tlaib does not support the expansion of settlements and believes that they make it difficult to reach a sustainable two-state solution.”

On the eve of the primary, Steve Tobocman, a senior adviser to Tlaib, told Haaretz that she supported a two-state solution. Tobocman added that while the Palestinian-American congressional nominee hasn’t issued any position papers regarding any other aspects of foreign policy, she has done so on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, because she “sought out the support and received the endorsement of J Street.”

But in a post-victory interview with the website “In These Times,” Tlaib, who talked about her Palestinian family – including a grandfather “who was shot 11 times” – outlined very different positions than those represented by J Street.

Asked whether she supported a one-state or two-state solution, her response was clear: “One state. It has to be one state. Separate but equal does not work. I’m only 42-years old but my teachers were of that generation that marched with Martin Luther King. This whole idea of a two-state solution, it doesn’t work.”

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premiu ... -1.6387175

And by the way, she lied about her stance on Israel before the primary. Not an auspicious beginning for this young politician. I don't see any more reason to take her at her word than Trump at his.

Don't be so culturally insensitive. That was a taqiya, a critical element of the Muslim faith, you racist!

[dualstow]

I guess I forgot myself.

[moda0306]

Your first part leaves out the entire second half of my question.

Right, the Trump thing. We are in agreement on Trump. And as WiseOne pointed out, disliking Trump does not mean she takes her freedoms for granted.

And I don't know what your latter false-dichotomy has to do with anything I mentioned.
...
I don't know if there was more hidden message to your question but if there was it blew over my head.

No hidden message, but what I supplied was context and what you supplied was far closer to a false dichotomy. Trump does not hail from a head-chopping nation, nor do his ancestors. Like Tlaib, I'm sure he's happy to have grown up in the U.S., but his media complaints are neither here nor there. (But again, you and I probably have the same feelings regarding him).

And by the way, she lied about her stance on Israel before the primary. Not an auspicious beginning for this young politician. I don't see any more reason to take her at her word than Trump at his.

I agree that Talib may be wildly hypocritical... I don't put much weight on the positions of a junior congresswoman.

My response was to Jackson's seeming double-standard... and as he's someone we action have to interact with on the forum, I felt it was worth responding.

So yes... no reason to believe her, either. And no it really has nothing to do with Trump being a puke, other than being a good way to tell who out there is a hypocrite towards privilege, lying, etc.

[jacksonM]

My response was to Jackson's seeming double-standard... and as he's someone we action have to interact with on the forum, I felt it was worth responding.

I'm flattered.

[WiseOne]

And no it really has nothing to do with Trump being a puke, other than being a good way to tell who out there is a hypocrite towards privilege, lying, etc.

Oh it's not that hard to figure out. Simpler test: Is the person a member of Congress?

[jacksonM]

What's wrong with this picture...

The screenshot is from Bing news. Here is the link to the actual story. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/price-of-i ... ive-years/. Do you think it was just a mistake or does any negative story just get a photo of Trump by default?

[Cortopassi]

I guess I forgot myself.

Atari 2600 Adventure! I played it a couple years ago on some simulator. My muscle? memory recalled exactly how/where to move around all the mazes, even after 30 some years.

[moda0306]

What's wrong with this picture...

The screenshot is from Bing news. Here is the link to the actual story. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/price-of-i ... ive-years/. Do you think it was just a mistake or does any negative story just get a photo of Trump by default?

I also noticed they used his "Douche-level-7" face rather than 8-10 (or 5-6 (he doesn't have a 1-4)).

Not only is he not even mentioned in the article, but the timeframe analyzed is 2012 thru 2016. Nothing of 2017 or 2018. No mention of republicans either.

Trump is a complete embarrassment of a human and President, but this isn't his baby.

[Kriegsspiel]

I'd say it's a algo issue (I see stories with headline pics that don't make sense all the time), or else they're blaming it on Trump. No doubt the algo issue is a low priority-fix, since they're probably getting all kinds of clicks from people who assume it's going to bash Trump on his insulin-policy.

Or maybe they're taking a page from those paid clickbait links at the bottom of news stories. You know the ones: "NY State Drivers Should Read This!" and there's a picture of a hot chick seductively leaning on a barn or whatever.

[moda0306]

I'm still of the opinion that standard profit motive interests drive the biases of "thu mediuh" more than "liberal principles." Focusing on Trump in a negative way is wonderful for ratings. It puts eyeballs on screens. Liberals love to read negative things about a man they hate. Conservatives love to hate to love to get incensed at the "tilt" of the coverage.

So Krieg I think you're on to something. It's clickbait score goes up 5x by putting a picture of Trump looking like a massive D-Bag on top of the headline. Put a bottle of insulin up there? Please... we're a corporation, selling audiences to other corporations. Let's get ready to rumble...

[Kriegsspiel]

I'm still of the opinion that standard profit motive interests drive the biases of "thu mediuh" more than "liberal principles." Focusing on Trump in a negative way is wonderful for ratings. It puts eyeballs on screens.

It's clickbait score goes up 5x by putting a picture of Trump looking like a massive D-Bag on top of the headline. Put a bottle of insulin up there? Please... we're a corporation, selling audiences to other corporations. Let's get ready to rumble...

Yup.

Tangentially related, before he became the Stoic philosophy author/guru, Ryan Holiday wrote Trust Me, I'm Lying, about how the media is manipulated, how to spot it, etc. One tactic used is getting a story play at a bottom-feeding blog/outlet with no journalistic integrity, which then gets picked up by bigger outlets who cite the original source. That's a big reason news organizations loooooooooooove Twitter and other social media. Or just emailing news organizations/using their anonymous tips button and lying to them directly. They're pressured to get stories out immediately, so they can't fact check them. They put them out, and then (maybe) put out retractions or modify them afterwards, but "there are no consequences for being wrong" as he says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZwHMZ4t-_Y

17:40-19:00 he talks about one example where he does that.

So Krieg I think you're on to something.

[Kriegsspiel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZwHMZ4t-_Y

17:40-19:00 he talks about one example where he does that.

Actually on topic, 43:14 he talks about running ads (for a clothing company) with Sasha Grey naked on them.

Other than those two points, that video wasn't really useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFxwqwhG-ZA
This one describes it.

[moda0306]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZwHMZ4t-_Y

17:40-19:00 he talks about one example where he does that.

Actually on topic, 43:14 he talks about running ads (for a clothing company) with Sasha Grey naked on them.

Other than those two points, that video wasn't really useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFxwqwhG-ZA
This one describes it.

That reminds me of hearing about Dick Cheney citing a NYT article about the risk of WMD in Iraq. The article was from an "anonymous" leak from the white house... turned out to be part of the lie-machine that Dick Cheney was the tip of the spear on.

As a fan of Game of Thrones, I prefer incestuous relationships to be open and honest... not hidden beneath an informational shell-game.

[dualstow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZwHMZ4t-_Y

Actually on topic, 43:14 he talks about running ads (for a clothing company) with Sasha Grey naked on them.

Is this someone famous? I assume she's good looking, anyway, and worth seeing naked.

Atari 2600 Adventure! I played it a couple years ago on some simulator. My muscle? memory recalled exactly how/where to move around all the mazes, even after 30 some years.

Bingo! Yes, that is the current profile picture. My wife and I joke that our cat is like the bat in that game. She's constantly stealing things and leaving them someplace else if we don't steal them back. Most recently, a roll of stamps.

[Kriegsspiel]

That reminds me of hearing about Dick Cheney citing a NYT article about the risk of WMD in Iraq. The article was from an "anonymous" leak from the white house... turned out to be part of the lie-machine that Dick Cheney was the tip of the spear on.

As a fan of Game of Thrones, I prefer incestuous relationships to be open and honest... not hidden beneath an informational shell-game.

Yup. I can't remember if he used that as an example in the book. It was in Tucker Carlson's book though.

[Kriegsspiel]

Actually on topic, 43:14 he talks about running ads (for a clothing company) with Sasha Grey naked on them.

Is this someone famous? I assume she's good looking, anyway, and worth seeing naked.

She was a famous porn star at the time.