Trump as tragicomedy

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dualstow
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:27 am

moda0306 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:15 am
So a Palestinian woman should feel lucky and appreciative to live in the country who has helped Israel devastate her population,
Yes she should. The head chopping line is valid (ooh, that would make a nice out-of-context sig line). Here’s the thing about coming into/being born in America: you don’t get to magically make your country act on the side of your homeland or ancestry or ethnicity, because your “enemies” are here, too, lobbying in their direction, not yours. However, you do have freedoms that you probably would not have in grandma’s country. (Redneck accent) And if you don’t like it, you can git the hell out.

Moda, I spent some of November and December reading about the mass ethnic cleansing of Jews in Iraq. I’m confused: should I be happy that my country invaded Iraq and bungled nation-building there (payback), or should I be happy that we made an honest effort (maybe they’ll eventually become a democracy and will even let the Jews back in someday?)
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- etymology of “alliance”
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by sophie » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:00 am

I'm sure our Muslim congresswomen are indeed happy to be living in a country where they can do things like drive, leave the house alone, hold public office, and not be killed for violating restrictive social mores.

Which is not incompatible with disliking Trump. I just hope they stop and think for a moment that this wonderful state of freedom is inextricably linked with other people's freedom to hold different political views from their own.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:19 am

Amen. I wish both sides would stop and think about that.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:23 am

sophie wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:00 am
I'm sure our Muslim congresswomen are indeed happy to be living in a country where they can do things like drive, leave the house alone, hold public office, and not be killed for violating restrictive social mores.

Which is not incompatible with disliking Trump. I just hope they stop and think for a moment that this wonderful state of freedom is inextricably linked with other people's freedom to hold different political views from their own.
Well said!
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by moda0306 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:16 pm

dualstow wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:27 am
moda0306 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:15 am
So a Palestinian woman should feel lucky and appreciative to live in the country who has helped Israel devastate her population,
Yes she should. The head chopping line is valid (ooh, that would make a nice out-of-context sig line). Here’s the thing about coming into/being born in America: you don’t get to magically make your country act on the side of your homeland or ancestry or ethnicity, because your “enemies” are here, too, lobbying in their direction, not yours. However, you do have freedoms that you probably would not have in grandma’s country. (Redneck accent) And if you don’t like it, you can git the hell out.

Moda, I spent some of November and December reading about the mass ethnic cleansing of Jews in Iraq. I’m confused: should I be happy that my country invaded Iraq and bungled nation-building there (payback), or should I be happy that we made an honest effort (maybe they’ll eventually become a democracy and will even let the Jews back in someday?)
Your first part leaves out the entire second half of my question. Generally, I think we all should feel a lot luckier, whether we're a Palestinian living in America, an "overtaxed" whiner pulling in $150-300k during the best time to be alive with an upper-middle-class income, or an obese trust-fund-baby who acts like the world's largest victim and god's gift to negotiating. We all have it pretty good, historically.

And I don't know what your latter false-dichotomy has to do with anything I mentioned. I don't think you should be "happy" with either option as one is vindictive, murderous and engaging in collectivist violence on a disgusting scale, and the other is false and wreaks of being a cuck to our national security establishment that only seems to have distaste for murderous regimes when they cease being a profitable partner to elite capital interests. I don't know if there was more hidden message to your question but if there was it blew over my head.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:10 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:16 pm
Your first part leaves out the entire second half of my question.
Right, the Trump thing. We are in agreement on Trump. And as Sophie pointed out, disliking Trump does not mean she takes her freedoms for granted.
And I don't know what your latter false-dichotomy has to do with anything I mentioned.
...
I don't know if there was more hidden message to your question but if there was it blew over my head.
No hidden message, but what I supplied was context and what you supplied was far closer to a false dichotomy. Trump does not hail from a head-chopping nation, nor do his ancestors. Like Tlaib, I'm sure he's happy to have grown up in the U.S., but his media complaints are neither here nor there. (But again, you and I probably have the same feelings regarding him).

And by the way, she lied about her stance on Israel before the primary. Not an auspicious beginning for this young politician. I don't see any more reason to take her at her word than Trump at his.
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- etymology of “alliance”
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:24 pm

On Tlaib’s candidate page on the J Street PAC website, on which supporters can donate to her directly, the description states that Tlaib “believes that the U.S. should be directly involved with negotiations to reach a two-state solution. Additionally, she supports all current aid to Israel and the Palestinian Authority, particularly to fund initiatives that ‘foster peace, as well as economic and humanitarian services.’ Tlaib does not support the expansion of settlements and believes that they make it difficult to reach a sustainable two-state solution.”

On the eve of the primary, Steve Tobocman, a senior adviser to Tlaib, told Haaretz that she supported a two-state solution. Tobocman added that while the Palestinian-American congressional nominee hasn’t issued any position papers regarding any other aspects of foreign policy, she has done so on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, because she “sought out the support and received the endorsement of J Street.”

But in a post-victory interview with the website “In These Times,” Tlaib, who talked about her Palestinian family – including a grandfather “who was shot 11 times” – outlined very different positions than those represented by J Street.

Asked whether she supported a one-state or two-state solution, her response was clear: “One state. It has to be one state. Separate but equal does not work. I’m only 42-years old but my teachers were of that generation that marched with Martin Luther King. This whole idea of a two-state solution, it doesn’t work.”

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premiu ... -1.6387175
dualstow wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:10 pm
And by the way, she lied about her stance on Israel before the primary. Not an auspicious beginning for this young politician. I don't see any more reason to take her at her word than Trump at his.
Don't be so culturally insensitive. That was a taqiya, a critical element of the Muslim faith, you racist!
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by dualstow » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:27 pm

I guess I forgot myself. O0
Unlike its synonyms, rarely used of a combination for evil
- etymology of “alliance”
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by moda0306 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:31 pm

dualstow wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:10 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:16 pm
Your first part leaves out the entire second half of my question.
Right, the Trump thing. We are in agreement on Trump. And as Sophie pointed out, disliking Trump does not mean she takes her freedoms for granted.
And I don't know what your latter false-dichotomy has to do with anything I mentioned.
...
I don't know if there was more hidden message to your question but if there was it blew over my head.
No hidden message, but what I supplied was context and what you supplied was far closer to a false dichotomy. Trump does not hail from a head-chopping nation, nor do his ancestors. Like Tlaib, I'm sure he's happy to have grown up in the U.S., but his media complaints are neither here nor there. (But again, you and I probably have the same feelings regarding him).

And by the way, she lied about her stance on Israel before the primary. Not an auspicious beginning for this young politician. I don't see any more reason to take her at her word than Trump at his.
I agree that Talib may be wildly hypocritical... I don't put much weight on the positions of a junior congresswoman.

My response was to Jackson's seeming double-standard... and as he's someone we action have to interact with on the forum, I felt it was worth responding.

So yes... no reason to believe her, either. And no it really has nothing to do with Trump being a puke, other than being a good way to tell who out there is a hypocrite towards privilege, lying, etc.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by jacksonM » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:20 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:31 pm
My response was to Jackson's seeming double-standard... and as he's someone we action have to interact with on the forum, I felt it was worth responding.
I'm flattered.
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by sophie » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:42 am

moda0306 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:31 pm
And no it really has nothing to do with Trump being a puke, other than being a good way to tell who out there is a hypocrite towards privilege, lying, etc.
Oh it's not that hard to figure out. Simpler test: Is the person a member of Congress?
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Re: Trump as tragicomedy

Post by jacksonM » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:41 am

What's wrong with this picture...

The screenshot is from Bing news. Here is the link to the actual story. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/price-of-i ... ive-years/. Do you think it was just a mistake or does any negative story just get a photo of Trump by default?

Image
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