Kavanaugh

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moda0306
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by moda0306 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:50 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:04 pm
Benko wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:15 pm
stuper1 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:07 pm
This whole thing is obviously a left-wing hit job.
Agree.

Moda imagine if after Dan Rather's fake documents were discredited** someone came up with another and worse fake document. And than another. You don't see it this way, but most of us (and based on polls lots of voters) do see it this way.

** I use this as an analogy of tactics not to discuss Bush (who I know you love).
You think Ms. Ford is "discredited?" Poor analogy. She simply "might be wrong." That's about it.

And even if she is lying, it would be no stretch of facts at all to have it be motivating to other women to come out who were in-fact assaulted by Brett.

What polls are you talking about?
Benko,

Unless I'm misinterpreting your bit about "seeing it this way," it appears you may have the polls wrong...

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/03/65405410 ... -from-1991

I'm totally open to any other opposing polls you might have in mind...
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by jacksonM » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:12 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:27 am
All this being said and the past few days, I have moved my needle to where I am not at all sure how much of what Ford is saying is true vs. mis-remembered anymore.

In the same breath, though, I'd have to say that given Kavanaugh's comments, he definitely is a Republican conservative, and I still don't understand how anyone with such an obvious bias should be on the court, whether left or right. We should strive to search for middle ground people to be on the court.

I understand that is a fantasy. :(
You don't think Kagan and Sotomayor had "obvious bias"?

As for Ford I never found her credible at all and I couldn't understand why even Republicans were saying that she was. Trump apparently saw things the way I did and said so yesterday, much to the chagrin of everyone but the base.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Benko » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:09 pm

Moda,

I started thinking Ford was sincere and her story need to be looked into. OTOH Kavanaugh's testimony was very credible and was also that of someone who was sincere. In addition Kavanaugh has what, 65 women writing letters attesting to his character. Offenders tend to repeat and not just have one incident. They can both kinda be correct and Ford be an actual victim of whatever happened (with a different "attacker"). However, then it comes out about her coaching someone about polygraphs, the "fear of flying", the claustrophobia, the 2nd door, in addition to people she said could verify her story all denying any knowledge of it.

So was she an actual victim? No evidence to back that up. Is her story based on recovered memories (notoriously inaccurate)? Seems more likely one of these 2 possibilities vs her just making story up but then why all the lies? And if K actually attacked her, why all the lies?

Odds of false rape accusation perhaps 5-10% (don't remember source but doesn't matter). Odds of false rape accusation in the 11th hour of a supreme court nomination? This is the MO of the left. And then the less and less credible accusations? Clearly they think (and are usually correct) that Rs are very stupid.

Apologies for the wording about the polls. I didn't type that (I haven't been paying any attention to polls) must have been autocorrect which is often very annoying.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Tyler » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:57 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:58 pm
Your and my definitions of "undeniably true" are undeniably different. This is partially a hit-job, as Senators don't care much for ethics, but it was also a legitimate and very limited investigation into a very disturbing claim about his nature.

Nah -- I don't think we're that far off. Embrace the freeing power of "both". Politics sucks.

I agree Ford's accusations deserved investigation and concede that calling out Clinton was unnecessary (even if absolutely believable because of Kavanaugh's ties to the Ken Starr Clinton investigation). But I think reasonable people can also understand that the entire dog & pony show "has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit, fueled with apparent pent-up anger about President Trump and the 2016 election, fear that has been unfairly stoked about [Kavanaugh's] judicial record... and millions of dollars in money from outside left-wing opposition groups." It never had to unfold this way, and it was largely orchestrated for maximum political effect (and decidedly not in Blasey Ford's best interests) by Feinstein.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by stuper1 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:16 pm

The leftists like to say that the US is the laughingstock of the world because we elected Trump as our president. To that I say: 1) I couldn't care less whether anybody else likes our leader, and 2) I don't believe that most of the world is laughing, because I think that much of the world actually respects a leader who conspicuously puts the interests of his own country first.

What I want to know is why aren't the leftists worried about the rest of the world laughing at the US for this manufactured Kavanaugh spectacle about things that supposedly happened in high school? I can't imagine that the rest of the world isn't laughing uproariously at us for this. Not that I really care, but again this is something that the leftists and their minion media like to say all the time about Trump.
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moda0306
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by moda0306 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:32 am

stuper1 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:16 pm
The leftists like to say that the US is the laughingstock of the world because we elected Trump as our president. To that I say: 1) I couldn't care less whether anybody else likes our leader, and 2) I don't believe that most of the world is laughing, because I think that much of the world actually respects a leader who conspicuously puts the interests of his own country first.

What I want to know is why aren't the leftists worried about the rest of the world laughing at the US for this manufactured Kavanaugh spectacle about things that supposedly happened in high school? I can't imagine that the rest of the world isn't laughing uproariously at us for this. Not that I really care, but again this is something that the leftists and their minion media like to say all the time about Trump.
Some on the left care about this. Some on the left don't care much. Many probably feign their concern, just as many conservatives feign concern on a number of micro-topics to help them assemble an embarrassing narrative towards "the left," whatever that is.

Other countries probably don't care much about the nomination norms of Supreme Court judges. What many folks in other countries probably find odd is how we give these people lifetime appointments, and while I wouldn't classify that under "embarrassing," I totally agree with that sentiment.

Of far-more concern than whether power treats power (dem senators treat a judicial nominee or Repub senators treat other senators) should be how power treats those without it. Either the masses or individuals. Focusing on the former in lieu of the latter on a consisten basis shows a nakedly partisan slant. One that we should, imo, be embarrassed about, though not because any foreigner tells us we should be.

And Donald Trump may be conspicuous, but the idea that he's acting in American's best interest is ridiculous. He's acting, as the elite does, in American Capital's best interest. I know some of us are good savers, but let's not kid ourselves about who our lot is in with... it's those who sell their labor for compensation.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by sophie » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:35 am

Tyler wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:57 pm
I agree Ford's accusations deserved investigation and concede that calling out Clinton was unnecessary (even if absolutely believable because of Kavanaugh's ties to the Ken Starr Clinton investigation). But I think reasonable people can also understand that the entire dog & pony show "has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit, fueled with apparent pent-up anger about President Trump and the 2016 election, fear that has been unfairly stoked about [Kavanaugh's] judicial record... and millions of dollars in money from outside left-wing opposition groups." It never had to unfold this way, and it was largely orchestrated for maximum political effect (and decidedly not in Blasey Ford's best interests) by Feinstein.
Agreed, Tyler.

To clarify my comment about "paranoia" - in a normal social situation, Kavanaugh's speech about a "left wing hit job" and "millions of dollars" would be entirely understandable, under the circumstances. But, if you're a federal judge and Supreme Court candidate, you really shouldn't be saying such things without solid proof. He could have simply said that this had the appearance of an orchestrated effort to prevent his confirmation, and left it at that. When you're under a spotlight and in a powerful position, you really need to be careful of what you say.

I do recognize the provoking circumstances and the fact that this appears to be atypical for him. But it certainly raised the issue in my mind of whether he has the temperament to serve on the Court.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:49 am

sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:35 am
When you're under a spotlight and in a powerful position, you really need to be careful of what you say.
Well that's generally out the window lately with Twitter (Trump, Musk, ??) and other platforms! Comments sections of most blogs are from people whose opinions are way far left and right and a lot of times are just comments no normal socially adjusted human would ever say in public.

And I'll swing back to Trump's campaign rally in Mississippi. While all his spokespeople came out and defended him that what he said about Ford was "factually" true, none would touch on HOW he mockingly said those things. Jesus, if I saw the president saying stuff like that about me on TV and seeing the people laugh and hoot it up standing all around him, children included, I would be terrified.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by moda0306 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:56 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:49 am
sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:35 am
When you're under a spotlight and in a powerful position, you really need to be careful of what you say.
Well that's generally out the window lately with Twitter (Trump, Musk, ??) and other platforms! Comments sections of most blogs are from people whose opinions are way far left and right and a lot of times are just comments no normal socially adjusted human would ever say in public.

And I'll swing back to Trump's campaign rally in Mississippi. While all his spokespeople came out and defended him that what he said about Ford was "factually" true, none would touch on HOW he mockingly said those things. Jesus, if I saw the president saying stuff like that about me on TV and seeing the people laugh and hoot it up standing all around him, children included, I would be terrified.
While it wasn't all factually true (Trump's flatulating speech), it's funny that now the knuckle-draggers want to argue that facts matter with regards to Trumps rhetoric.

And how again is "the left" a uniquely toxic force in this country?
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by jacksonM » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:11 am

http://www.unz.com/imercer/christine-bl ... ppocampus/

A good article on Ms. Ford's claims about the repressed memory stored indelibly on her hippocampus for future retrieval 30 years later.

Update: I think the "hippocampus" thing is probably a half truth. With all the craziness going on in universities nowadays it's probably fair to say that the campus had a lot to do with her repressed memory. There was just no hippo involved.
Last edited by jacksonM on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Maddy » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:37 am

I taught a class to high-school aged kids not long ago and was struck by the extent to which young people are seemingly unable to distinguish reality from a position asserted with the object of convincing others of its truth. It seemed to be much more than a political or ideological preference; rather, they appeared to be actually unable to grasp the concept that one version of the facts might be more truthful than another. I see a frightening resemblance to that mindset in these women and their "followers."
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by moda0306 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:39 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:37 am
I taught a class to high-school aged kids not long ago and was struck by the extent to which young people are seemingly unable to distinguish reality from a position asserted with the object of convincing others of its truth. It seemed to be much more than a political or ideological preference; rather, they appeared to be actually unable to grasp the concept that one version of the facts might be more truthful than another. I see a frightening resemblance to that mindset in these women and their "followers."
And Trump, of course. Let's not forget the most powerful human-being amongst 7 Billion.

But I agree with you... far too many people allowing their opinions to drive their digestion of facts.
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