Kavanaugh

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sophie
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by sophie » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:35 am

Tyler wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:57 pm
I agree Ford's accusations deserved investigation and concede that calling out Clinton was unnecessary (even if absolutely believable because of Kavanaugh's ties to the Ken Starr Clinton investigation). But I think reasonable people can also understand that the entire dog & pony show "has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit, fueled with apparent pent-up anger about President Trump and the 2016 election, fear that has been unfairly stoked about [Kavanaugh's] judicial record... and millions of dollars in money from outside left-wing opposition groups." It never had to unfold this way, and it was largely orchestrated for maximum political effect (and decidedly not in Blasey Ford's best interests) by Feinstein.
Agreed, Tyler.

To clarify my comment about "paranoia" - in a normal social situation, Kavanaugh's speech about a "left wing hit job" and "millions of dollars" would be entirely understandable, under the circumstances. But, if you're a federal judge and Supreme Court candidate, you really shouldn't be saying such things without solid proof. He could have simply said that this had the appearance of an orchestrated effort to prevent his confirmation, and left it at that. When you're under a spotlight and in a powerful position, you really need to be careful of what you say.

I do recognize the provoking circumstances and the fact that this appears to be atypical for him. But it certainly raised the issue in my mind of whether he has the temperament to serve on the Court.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:49 am

sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:35 am
When you're under a spotlight and in a powerful position, you really need to be careful of what you say.
Well that's generally out the window lately with Twitter (Trump, Musk, ??) and other platforms! Comments sections of most blogs are from people whose opinions are way far left and right and a lot of times are just comments no normal socially adjusted human would ever say in public.

And I'll swing back to Trump's campaign rally in Mississippi. While all his spokespeople came out and defended him that what he said about Ford was "factually" true, none would touch on HOW he mockingly said those things. Jesus, if I saw the president saying stuff like that about me on TV and seeing the people laugh and hoot it up standing all around him, children included, I would be terrified.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by moda0306 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:56 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:49 am
sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:35 am
When you're under a spotlight and in a powerful position, you really need to be careful of what you say.
Well that's generally out the window lately with Twitter (Trump, Musk, ??) and other platforms! Comments sections of most blogs are from people whose opinions are way far left and right and a lot of times are just comments no normal socially adjusted human would ever say in public.

And I'll swing back to Trump's campaign rally in Mississippi. While all his spokespeople came out and defended him that what he said about Ford was "factually" true, none would touch on HOW he mockingly said those things. Jesus, if I saw the president saying stuff like that about me on TV and seeing the people laugh and hoot it up standing all around him, children included, I would be terrified.
While it wasn't all factually true (Trump's flatulating speech), it's funny that now the knuckle-draggers want to argue that facts matter with regards to Trumps rhetoric.

And how again is "the left" a uniquely toxic force in this country?
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by jacksonM » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:11 am

http://www.unz.com/imercer/christine-bl ... ppocampus/

A good article on Ms. Ford's claims about the repressed memory stored indelibly on her hippocampus for future retrieval 30 years later.

Update: I think the "hippocampus" thing is probably a half truth. With all the craziness going on in universities nowadays it's probably fair to say that the campus had a lot to do with her repressed memory. There was just no hippo involved.
Last edited by jacksonM on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Maddy » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:37 am

I taught a class to high-school aged kids not long ago and was struck by the extent to which young people are seemingly unable to distinguish reality from a position asserted with the object of convincing others of its truth. It seemed to be much more than a political or ideological preference; rather, they appeared to be actually unable to grasp the concept that one version of the facts might be more truthful than another. I see a frightening resemblance to that mindset in these women and their "followers."
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by moda0306 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:39 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:37 am
I taught a class to high-school aged kids not long ago and was struck by the extent to which young people are seemingly unable to distinguish reality from a position asserted with the object of convincing others of its truth. It seemed to be much more than a political or ideological preference; rather, they appeared to be actually unable to grasp the concept that one version of the facts might be more truthful than another. I see a frightening resemblance to that mindset in these women and their "followers."
And Trump, of course. Let's not forget the most powerful human-being amongst 7 Billion.

But I agree with you... far too many people allowing their opinions to drive their digestion of facts.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:53 am

Facts = Data + Interpretation + Persuasion
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by jacksonM » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:02 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:49 am
sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:35 am
When you're under a spotlight and in a powerful position, you really need to be careful of what you say.
Well that's generally out the window lately with Twitter (Trump, Musk, ??) and other platforms! Comments sections of most blogs are from people whose opinions are way far left and right and a lot of times are just comments no normal socially adjusted human would ever say in public.

And I'll swing back to Trump's campaign rally in Mississippi. While all his spokespeople came out and defended him that what he said about Ford was "factually" true, none would touch on HOW he mockingly said those things. Jesus, if I saw the president saying stuff like that about me on TV and seeing the people laugh and hoot it up standing all around him, children included, I would be terrified.
I can see how you would feel that way if you genuinely believed that Ms. Ford was the fragile, emotionally traumatized 15 year old girl who appeared before the senate and couldn't remember anything about the incident or provide one corroborating fact.

Among the deplorables however, she's now seen as a 51 year old adult who has a PHD in "research psychiatry" and who made the conscious choice to accuse a man of attempted rape in front of the whole world without providing a single shred of evidence. IMO She deserves to be mocked just for the fear of flying thing alone. Don't hold your breath about seeing that in an SNL skit.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by moda0306 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:48 am

jacksonM wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:02 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:49 am
sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:35 am
When you're under a spotlight and in a powerful position, you really need to be careful of what you say.
Well that's generally out the window lately with Twitter (Trump, Musk, ??) and other platforms! Comments sections of most blogs are from people whose opinions are way far left and right and a lot of times are just comments no normal socially adjusted human would ever say in public.

And I'll swing back to Trump's campaign rally in Mississippi. While all his spokespeople came out and defended him that what he said about Ford was "factually" true, none would touch on HOW he mockingly said those things. Jesus, if I saw the president saying stuff like that about me on TV and seeing the people laugh and hoot it up standing all around him, children included, I would be terrified.
I can see how you would feel that way if you genuinely believed that Ms. Ford was the fragile, emotionally traumatized 15 year old girl who appeared before the senate and couldn't remember anything about the incident or provide one corroborating fact.

Among the deplorables however, she's now seen as a 51 year old adult who has a PHD in "research psychiatry" and who made the conscious choice to accuse a man of attempted rape in front of the whole world without providing a single shred of evidence. IMO She deserves to be mocked just for the fear of flying thing alone. Don't hold your breath about seeing that in an SNL skit.
So if someone is raped in a manner where they didn't "collect evidence," should they stay silent about it their whole lives?

She's not asking anyone to believe her wholeheartedly without evidence. She's just asking that her testimony be given as evidence to his character.

If he did what she claims, I think she has every right to come forward whenever she pleases. What this really comes down to is whether he did it or not. It totally changes the nature of both her coming forward and him acting in such a defensive, unprofessional manner. The only things that don't hing on that are that democrat senators are playing games, and that masses of "the right" are willing to openly mock a woman insofar as she came forward as a sexual assault victim.

An innocent Kavanaugh is a better moral position to be in (even with his awful views on the 4th amendment and unprofessional testimony) than any of the disgusting mockers on "the right," including Trump and his slimeball son. Deplorable, indeed.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by jacksonM » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:45 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:48 am
jacksonM wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:02 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:49 am


Well that's generally out the window lately with Twitter (Trump, Musk, ??) and other platforms! Comments sections of most blogs are from people whose opinions are way far left and right and a lot of times are just comments no normal socially adjusted human would ever say in public.

And I'll swing back to Trump's campaign rally in Mississippi. While all his spokespeople came out and defended him that what he said about Ford was "factually" true, none would touch on HOW he mockingly said those things. Jesus, if I saw the president saying stuff like that about me on TV and seeing the people laugh and hoot it up standing all around him, children included, I would be terrified.
I can see how you would feel that way if you genuinely believed that Ms. Ford was the fragile, emotionally traumatized 15 year old girl who appeared before the senate and couldn't remember anything about the incident or provide one corroborating fact.

Among the deplorables however, she's now seen as a 51 year old adult who has a PHD in "research psychiatry" and who made the conscious choice to accuse a man of attempted rape in front of the whole world without providing a single shred of evidence. IMO She deserves to be mocked just for the fear of flying thing alone. Don't hold your breath about seeing that in an SNL skit.
So if someone is raped in a manner where they didn't "collect evidence," should they stay silent about it their whole lives?

She's not asking anyone to believe her wholeheartedly without evidence. She's just asking that her testimony be given as evidence to his character.

If he did what she claims, I think she has every right to come forward whenever she pleases. What this really comes down to is whether he did it or not. It totally changes the nature of both her coming forward and him acting in such a defensive, unprofessional manner. The only things that don't hing on that are that democrat senators are playing games, and that masses of "the right" are willing to openly mock a woman insofar as she came forward as a sexual assault victim.

An innocent Kavanaugh is a better moral position to be in (even with his awful views on the 4th amendment and unprofessional testimony) than any of the disgusting mockers on "the right," including Trump and his slimeball son. Deplorable, indeed.
When the only evidence someone has is a recovered memory arising from the hippocampus 30 years after the fact, with no other corroborating evidence and other evidence that actually contradicts their memory then yes, I think they should stay silent about it before lodging an accusation to destroy someone's life. Or at least refrain from parading it in front of the whole world in the middle of a senate confirmation process.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Lonestar » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:28 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:48 am
If he did what she claims, I think she has every right to come forward whenever she pleases. What this really comes down to is whether he did it or not. It totally changes the nature of both her coming forward and him acting in such a defensive, unprofessional manner. The only things that don't hing on that are that democrat senators are playing games, and that masses of "the right" are willing to openly mock a woman insofar as she came forward as a sexual assault victim.
"Unprofessional" is subjective judgement. If he DID NOT do what he was so aggressively accused of, wouldn't a "defensive" posture be expected? Assume for a moment you have spent your entire adult life practicing law and setting as a judge on several courts. Your credentials are impeccable. All of a sudden you have a partisan group of individuals acting as a lynching party, based on sketchy, uncorroborated evidence. Under the conditions, I would not trust anyone who would not stand up and offer a scathing defense.
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Re: Kavanaugh

Post by Maddy » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:03 am

moda0306 wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:48 am
She's not asking anyone to believe her wholeheartedly without evidence. She's just asking that her testimony be given as evidence to his character.

If he did what she claims, I think she has every right to come forward whenever she pleases.
Nobody's questioning her right to come forward. Nor has anyone denied her the opportunity to have her evidence considered. (Lordy, how much more attention could she have garnered?)

What you are actually contending, it seems to me, is that she had a right to be believed. Nobody has that right, no matter what's being alleged and no matter when the allegation is made.

Here, the timing of the revelation, the complete absence of corroboration, and the flat-out refuting of her testimony by multiple witnesses (including those she identified) bears strongly on her credibility and raises the unmistakable inference of an ulterior, political, motive. The suggestion that she is entitled, despite all that, to be believed (presumably because she is a woman and because the allegation resonates of "cultural oppression") is just nutty.
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