Good, inexpensive index fund providers?

[hedgehog]

I see many prefer here Vanguard (which I read somewhere is on the more expensive side) in the competition amongst current index fund offerings.

How about DFA/IFA?
To qoute Libertarian666 from http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/pe ... /#msg71206
I believe he used to blog for DFA, which IMO is a snake-oil outfit that has funds with a wonderful track record... that was made up by backtesting.
Okay.

So, what are the preferred fund providers here? I tried to find them with a forum search but to no avail. Maybe it would worth a sticky?

[smurff]

There's a sticky at the top of this section of the forum, called "Master list of PP component ETF/MFD options..."  It was last updated in January.

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/pe ... d-options/

[murphy_p_t]

"I see many prefer here Vanguard (which I read somewhere is on the more expensive side)"

after you investigate this...i don't think you'll find Vanguard to be expensive. If you do, please report back.

[rickb]

There's a sticky at the top of this section of the forum, called "Master list of PP component ETF/MFD options..."  It was last updated in January.

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/pe ... d-options/

The master list is a list of pretty much all funds/ETFs that could be used for the various PP assets.  As I read it, hedgehog is asking for something a bit different - i.e. among all the options which ones do we collectively prefer.  There's been a fair amount of discussion about brokerages, but as far as I recall not so much about individual funds/ETFs. 

[hedgehog]

There's a sticky at the top of this section of the forum, called "Master list of PP component ETF/MFD options..."  It was last updated in January.

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/pe ... d-options/

Your linked post is about ETFs. MFD is an unknown acronym for me and Google was no help, so. pls. resolve it. Thank you. I especially asked for index funds, not ETFs.

For example: http://assetbuilder.com/our_portfolios/ ... portfolios
They seem to use DFA. Which are trashed as per the quote in my first post.

All in all I am perplexed.

[KevinW]

DFA will not sell its funds directly to individuals, they only sell through advisors which add on their own fees. That rules out DFA in my book.

I like Vanguard best as they have very low expenses, and I think their client-owned structure tends to prevent them from doing things contrary to the interests of individual investors.

The ETFs put out by iShares and Schwab, and Fidelity's Spartan index funds, also have low expenses and seem to be managed well. They are all huge for-profit organizations so I think it's worth keeping an eye on them.

Also the funds in the TSP look excellent.

Why do you think Vanguard is expensive? Every comparison I've seen has ranked them as either the cheapest, or very close.

[Khisanth]

For stocks, I prefer VTI or VTSAX. No trading fee, and 0.05% expense ratio. Index funds can also be ETFs so your understanding of ETFs may be flawed.

For bonds, I prefer US Treasuries held at Vanguard

For gold, I have IAU (0.25%), GTU (0.40%), and EEEEAAGLES (4% one-time fee)

Cash I track as part of my savings, checking, and VMMXX

[Ad Orientem]

As far as fund families go, Vanguard is best of breed for all the reasons listed in the preceding comments. You are not likely to go far wrong if you hold a Permanent Portfolio consisting of VGLT, VGSH, VTI and physical gold. If you want to use a gold fund I would go with IAU or maybe GTU if you can buy in during one of those days when gold is getting pounded and thereby buy at a discount.

TLT looks a bit better on paper for long bonds, but I would still go with VGLT. Why? Bluntly I trust Vanguard and I don't trust a lot of those other fund families that often do things in their interest but not yours.

[dualstow]

Vanguard.

I liked them better before they got rid of Pershing and started doing their own accounting, but they're still cheap and good as far as Mutual Funds and ETFs go.

[hedgehog]

For stocks, I prefer VTI or VTSAX. No trading fee, and 0.05% expense ratio. Index funds can also be ETFs so your understanding of ETFs may be flawed.

So what is the proper name of index funds which are not ETFs? Any gold index funds which are not ETFs? Is there a market or demand for it?

[hedgehog]

Vanguard vs. DFA topic.

I understand the BAM alliance may add higher fees to their DFA funds. But pls. correct me in that topic: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/pe ... -alliance/

In my link there seems to be a cheaper option as well for DFA funds, AssetBuilder.com:

For example: http://assetbuilder.com/our_portfolios/ ... portfolios

And how about IFA for DFA?
http://www.ifa.com/articles/DFA_vs_Vanguard.aspx
http://www.ifa.com/Admin/fees.asp

[Khisanth]

I haven't found a Permanent Portfolio "approved" gold mutual fund aside from GTU which is a close-ended fund that is traded on the exchange.

I suppose that commodities are too volatile to be formed into a pure mutual fund that has a NAV trade once per day, thus demand for such is not profitable for fund creators.

What is your objection to ETF? The spread and trading commissions?

Admittedly I haven't looked much into DFA once I heard that it requires specific advisors to handle them.

[hedgehog]

I suppose that commodities are too volatile to be formed into a pure mutual fund that has a NAV trade once per day, thus demand for such is not profitable for fund creators.

What's a NAV trade? Net Asset Value trade or what? I don't know.

What is your objection to ETF? The spread and trading commissions?

Admittedly I haven't looked much into DFA once I heard that it requires specific advisors to handle them.

Let's proceed step by step. First figure out DFA, then we can compare DFA and Vanguard index funds to any ETFs okay?

Anyways, other index fund providers out there other than Vanguard and DFA?

There's a sticky at the top of this section of the forum, called "Master list of PP component ETF/MFD options..."  It was last updated in January.

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/pe ... d-options/

MFD is an unknown acronym for me and Google was no help, so. pls. resolve it. Thank you.

Looking for a solution for this as well. Thank you.

[Tortoise]

I believe MFD is just someone's makeshift abbreviation for "mutual fund."