What Did Trump Do That Was So Bad?

[doodle]

After 9 pages, it really does seem like it’s his personality that bothers people and not his policy.

As someone who doesn’t watch the news and limits what kind of news I read online, I haven’t been bothered by his personality.

If the mainstream media cared about what was best for the country, perhaps they’d not focus so much on trumps personality. And perhaps fewer liberals would be pissed off.

I don’t know Tim Cook’s personality and I buy iPhones. I don’t care what it is, I just want a good product.

It seems like liberals would prefer a shittier product made by someone with a good personality.

I will point out that you have oftentimes made sweeping statements and continue to do so here.

Count me out regarding your first sentence sweeping statement. For me it's his demonstrated lack of qualifications. To focus on just one. He is a prolific, documented liar. Do you trust people who lie to you in either your personal or business relationships? How is he effective in any way when this is one of his demonstrated characteristics?

Finally I will address your last sweeping statement. "Liberals" are all this way? Are you one of those people who says ALL women are a certain way, rather then determining HOW EACH woman actually is?

I think that, for the most part, anyone here who has dared to not worship Trump confines their statements to what they have observed in Trump and his actions but do not go on to make sweeping statements of either ALL "Republicans" or "conservatives". I do, though, oftentimes witness here the opposite - the "Liberals", the "Democrats". They are all viewed as one monolith with no distinction between any of them.

And, totally tangential...I'll throw in my personal announcement here.

I was down to voting either Amy K and Tulsi G. I did not want to exert any effort or dedicate time to attempt to distinguish between them since my vote is going nowhere. I was going to just toss a coin - Heads for Amy and Tails for Tulsi. However, just awhile ago, when I was listening to the Sundays news talk shows and it sunk in that Amy K was actively campaigning for Joe Biden, my mind was made up. Tomorrow it will be Tulsi Gabbard. I saw a ton of her on C-Span in full, unfiltered campaign stops. Always liked all I saw in those plus her debate performances.

Vinny

Vinny

Now that you mention it, that is true. There has been a lot of blanket stereotyping happening here towards the left whereas the criticism in return has mostly been concerning Trump. My guess is that it's a habit picked up from watching a lot of Fox and listening to right wing pundit radio where that term is tossed around ad nauseum. If a respectable conservative (and there are many) were on the ticket this year they would have gotten my vote....but I'm just another "liberal"

[Tortoise]

Anyone want to explain who the aggressors here are?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakou ... t_fights/

At around the 0:50 mark in that video, one of the Trump supporters says the woman filming the video sprayed him with pepper spray. I'm assuming that's why so many of the people are acting enraged toward her.

Is there a version of that video that shows the initial encounter where she potentially initiated aggression by spraying them with pepper spray?

[doodle]

What do I mean by respectable conservative?

Someone whose allegiance to conservative philosophy is deeper than allegiance to their party.

Someone who treats all people, even opponents, with respect and dignity although they might disagree wholeheartedly with them. Someone presidential who rises above and doesn't jump in the gutter to respond to every slight against them.

Someone who can calmly and rationally explain their position regarding difficult matters and not lose their cool and resort to name calling when they get pushback.

I don't care if they are religious or not, but if they are going to hold bibles and invoke christs name in their speeches then at least attempt to follow in his footsteps...revenge,getting even, and threating violence shouldn't be your go to play book.

Accept responsibility for things that don't work out right or go wrong and stop placing blame on everyone and everything else around you. And if someone in your administration or professional circle has to be let go because of differences of opinion, do that in a dignified way. Firing people over twitter is lowlife behavior.

Recognize that you aren't god. Humility is an attractive trait....you aren't the smartest, best, most successful whatever...and if you are, shut up about it...no one wants to hear you brag about how amazing you are.

Your cabinet and advisors shouldn't consist predominantly of friends and family members. Groupthink is dangerous.

[doodle]

Anyone want to explain who the aggressors here are?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakou ... t_fights/

At around the 0:50 mark in that video, one of the Trump supporters says the woman filming the video sprayed him with pepper spray. I'm assuming that's why so many of the people are acting enraged toward her.

Is there a version of that video that shows the initial encounter where she potentially initiated aggression by spraying them with pepper spray?

The one that called her the 'N' word? I'm not sure what happened here, she later claimed that the bear spray attack came from the other side. Either way, I saw about 30 vs 1 and the aggressive behavior seemed to be coming from one side. I saw a group of men physically intimidating a woman. In my 40 years on this earth there have been some heated election...bush vs gore...romney vs obama. I have never seen people behave like this...and that agressive loony behavior is primarily coming from the Trump camp. BLM was not a movement centered around a political candidate. It was a movement originating in a communities frustrations towards perceived racial bias on the part of criminal justice system.

[Tortoise]

Anyone want to explain who the aggressors here are?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakou ... t_fights/

At around the 0:50 mark in that video, one of the Trump supporters says the woman filming the video sprayed him with pepper spray. I'm assuming that's why so many of the people are acting enraged toward her.

Is there a version of that video that shows the initial encounter where she potentially initiated aggression by spraying them with pepper spray?

The one that called her the 'N' word? I'm not sure what happened here, she later claimed that the bear spray attack came from the other side. Either way, I saw about 30 vs 1 and the aggressive behavior seemed to be coming from one side. I saw a group of men physically intimidating a woman. In my 40 years on this earth there have been some heated election...bush vs gore...romney vs obama. I have never seen people behave like this...and that agressive loony behavior is primarily coming from the Trump camp. BLM was not a movement centered around a political candidate. It was a movement originating in a communities frustrations towards perceived racial bias on the part of criminal justice system.

Yeah, the guy using the N-word isn't exactly a class act. Very unfortunate.

Regarding "30 vs 1 and the aggressive behavior seemed to be coming from one side," if the guy was correct that she initiated the aggression by pepper spraying them, she effectively picked a fight with a caravan. Not a smart move. I'm not saying the group of Trump supporters is necessarily blameless in that incident or handled it responsibly, but it's quite possible that the woman started the fight.

Since the video doesn't show the initial encounter, wouldn't it be premature to jump to any conclusions regarding who initiated the aggression in that incident?

Have you ever served on a jury, doodle?

[doodle]

Anyone want to explain who the aggressors here are?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakou ... t_fights/

At around the 0:50 mark in that video, one of the Trump supporters says the woman filming the video sprayed him with pepper spray. I'm assuming that's why so many of the people are acting enraged toward her.

Is there a version of that video that shows the initial encounter where she potentially initiated aggression by spraying them with pepper spray?

The one that called her the 'N' word? I'm not sure what happened here, she later claimed that the bear spray attack came from the other side. Either way, I saw about 30 vs 1 and the aggressive behavior seemed to be coming from one side. I saw a group of men physically intimidating a woman. In my 40 years on this earth there have been some heated election...bush vs gore...romney vs obama. I have never seen people behave like this...and that agressive loony behavior is primarily coming from the Trump camp. BLM was not a movement centered around a political candidate. It was a movement originating in a communities frustrations towards perceived racial bias on the part of criminal justice system.

Yeah, the guy using the N-word isn't exactly a class act. Very unfortunate.

Regarding "30 vs 1 and the aggressive behavior seemed to be coming from one side," if the guy was correct that she initiated the aggression by pepper spraying them, she effectively picked a fight with a caravan. Not a smart move. I'm not saying the group of Trump supporters is necessarily blameless in that incident or handled it responsibly, but it's quite possible that the woman started the fight.

Since the video doesn't show the initial encounter, wouldn't it be premature to jump to any conclusions regarding who initiated the aggression in that incident?

Have you ever served on a jury, doodle?

You are right. The initial incident is not clear. The woman claims to police that she was sprayed with bear spray and has video of that. The police act as if their hands are tied. Maybe she flipped them off, maybe they shouted something at her and she shouted back. Either way, you have a young woman who has been corraled by a group of racist men and threatened. Her bravery is quite impressive actually.

All of this though is a result of Trump though and is why he is so unfit to lead. He has emboldened and brought the craziest elements of our society out of the woodwork...on both sides of the aisle. His entire life has been full of conflict, as president he has now brought that into all of our homes.

[Tortoise]

You are right. The initial incident is not clear. The woman claims to police that she was sprayed with bear spray and has video of that. The police act as if their hands are tied. Maybe she flipped them off, maybe they shouted something at her and she shouted back.

Or maybe she pepper sprayed them first, and they pepper sprayed her in retaliation. You forgot to include that possibility.

Either way, you have a young woman who has been corraled by a group of racist men and threatened. Her bravery is quite impressive actually.

I suppose she is quite "brave" for not backing down, but if it turns out that she initiated aggression by pepper spraying the caravan first, she's also quite stupid.

All of this though is a result of Trump though and is why he is so unfit to lead. He has emboldened and brought the craziest elements of our society out of the woodwork...on both sides of the aisle.

Wrong. The political polarization in the U.S. had started years before Trump took office (Tea Party movement, Occupy movement, etc.), and is in fact part of a larger long-term political polarization we've been seeing in some other countries as well. This is bigger than Trump. It's a global clash of political philosophies in an increasingly connected and technological world.

[yankees60]

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I'm starting to think Trump might fracture this nation.

Might?

In the Humpty Dumpty sense...like never put back together again. I am convinced we are watching an ascendant fascist narrative here.

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Well maybe, but I really wasn't implying a literal Nazi metaphor, at least not at this point.
But I am saying he is a uniquely divisive and polarizing president. I would like to think even the most ardent Trump supporters would not go so far as to call him a great unifier.
Does anyone think a highly polarized society is a good thing in the long run? Some people seem to think so, as long as their tribe is the winning one. But you have to question whether there are any winners at the end of the road we are on. Well maybe one person. Or maybe a foreign country or two.

Either way, I predict we should all buckle up and prepare for the possibility that tomorrow is only the first round of a slugfest that will go on for weeks if not months.
Lots of lawyers, lots of court hearings, and a display for the rest of the world of how democracy is not supposed to work. And possibly a stark display of just how imperfect our hallowed Constitution really is.

On the other hand, this could well turn out to be similar to the 1980 election. Clear cut winner declared tomorrow night. All the court fights will be over some of the senate elections.

Vinny

To be clear cut, I think the winner will have to win decidedly at the in-person voting polls where the counts are known most quickly, and then the lead will need to maintain or increase as the additional votes from other routes are counted in the days following. All the other outcomes and combinations fall into the grey zone where the legal fighting will happen.

The allegations of voting fraud have been really unfortunate, because they really increase the possibility that the losing side will not easily accept the results, and then it's anyone's guess what would or could happen next.

Take a look at this:

https://cookpolitical.com/index.php/ana ... ign-rested

The Six Faulty Assumptions on Which the Trump Campaign Rested


Do we see any of these same faulty assumptions having been or continuing to be voiced here?


Vinny

The author of the article was on earlier today and is again on C-Span now. You can watch it any time here:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?477427-4/ ... paign-2020


Extremely illuminating! Warning: Any with BDS might view it with extreme denial!

Vinny

I have this on for the third time today (On C-Span now). First two times I'd missed the beginning.

Charlie Cook is forecasting a 53-44 result with over 300 electoral votes...

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

Speaking of feeling "American", what does it say when the sight of an American flag on somebody's house, car, or truck tells me with very high probability that the person plans to vote for Trump? In 2020, the Stars and Stripes have become associated almost exclusively with Trump's campaign and not Biden's.

So tell me... which candidate is the one encouraging us all to feel proud of being Americans? Which candidate is claiming to put America first?

You and doodle often speak of yearning for unification. The American flag is one of the most powerful symbols of unification for Americans. Trump has been very wise to embrace it and rally his followers behind it.

Not sure where you live -- we fly the flag here on holidays. Very few people fly it daily. If it has become a Trump symbol, I'm unaware, I don't perceive it that way.

By necessity, the challenger has to make people feel we can do better as Americans than we are now. Is Biden claiming to put America 2nd or something?

Bad snipping from Biden's website. Seems he has a pretty good set of plans to improve America:

THE BIDEN PLAN TO

Beat COVID-19
Joe Biden has a real strategy to take on the threat of COVID-19, deliver immediate relief to working families, and reopen our schools and businesses safely.
BUILD BACK BETTER
Joe Biden's Jobs and Economic Recovery Plan for Working Families
In this time of crisis, Joe Biden has a plan to create millions of good-paying jobs and to build back better an economy that works for everyone.
Read more
THE BIDEN PLAN TO
Give Every American Affordable Health Care
Joe Biden has a plan to build on the Affordable Care Act by giving Americans more choice, reducing health care costs, and making our health care system less complex to navigate.
THE BIDEN PLAN TO
Restore American Leadership Abroad
THE BIDEN PLAN TO
Ensure the Future is "Made in America"
THE BIDEN PLAN TO
Secure our Values as a Nation of Immigrants
THE BIDEN PLAN TO
Support our Veterans

[Cortopassi]

Then there's the mountain of evidence of Biden's corruption on Hunter's laptop, which no one claims is made up. Even those who claim it is "Russian disinformation" don't claim that the laptop isn't Hunter's.

Maybe the laptop becomes a corruption investigation after Biden becomes president....

Or maybe not since the dems will have both houses of congress.

Whatever happens, it's been interesting conversation here. Hopefully we'll all be able to tone it back down in a couple days.

[Libertarian666]

Then there's the mountain of evidence of Biden's corruption on Hunter's laptop, which no one claims is made up. Even those who claim it is "Russian disinformation" don't claim that the laptop isn't Hunter's.

Maybe the laptop becomes a corruption investigation after Biden becomes president....

Or maybe not since the dems will have both houses of congress.

Whatever happens, it's been interesting conversation here. Hopefully we'll all be able to tone it back down in a couple days.

You can be certain that if Biden wins, the laptop investigation will be over on inauguration day.

[glennds]

After 9 pages, it really does seem like it’s his personality that bothers people and not his policy.

As someone who doesn’t watch the news and limits what kind of news I read online, I haven’t been bothered by his personality.

If the mainstream media cared about what was best for the country, perhaps they’d not focus so much on trumps personality. And perhaps fewer liberals would be pissed off.

I don’t know Tim Cook’s personality and I buy iPhones. I don’t care what it is, I just want a good product.

It seems like liberals would prefer a shittier product made by someone with a good personality.

If the mainstream media weren't in the tank for the Democrats, there wouldn't even be a contest.

For one thing, Biden is incapable of being President, which anyone with two functioning brain cells would know if they saw how he is unable to read off a teleprompter without garbling his speech unintelligibly. But of course the mainstream media won't show you those clips, will they?

Then there's the mountain of evidence of Biden's corruption on Hunter's laptop, which no one claims is made up. Even those who claim it is "Russian disinformation" don't claim that the laptop isn't Hunter's.

And of course the media also won't tell you about Trump's amazing record of accomplishment but just goes with lies about how racist he is.

Where it will get interesting is if, after vote reporting, various States start to get added to "the list" of anti-Trump conspirators along with the Democrats, media, most of the science community among others.

[doodle]

Certainly the democrat liberal states that have already been threatened with punishment by cutting off federal aid for natural disasters or education. California, you're fired!

no really...I have the best jokes...really, they are so tremendous. So many people tell me that...they say, Donald you're like a clown.

[yankees60]

After 9 pages, it really does seem like it’s his personality that bothers people and not his policy.

As someone who doesn’t watch the news and limits what kind of news I read online, I haven’t been bothered by his personality.

If the mainstream media cared about what was best for the country, perhaps they’d not focus so much on trumps personality. And perhaps fewer liberals would be pissed off.

I don’t know Tim Cook’s personality and I buy iPhones. I don’t care what it is, I just want a good product.

It seems like liberals would prefer a shittier product made by someone with a good personality.

If the mainstream media weren't in the tank for the Democrats, there wouldn't even be a contest.

For one thing, Biden is incapable of being President, which anyone with two functioning brain cells would know if they saw how he is unable to read off a teleprompter without garbling his speech unintelligibly. But of course the mainstream media won't show you those clips, will they?

Then there's the mountain of evidence of Biden's corruption on Hunter's laptop, which no one claims is made up. Even those who claim it is "Russian disinformation" don't claim that the laptop isn't Hunter's.

And of course the media also won't tell you about Trump's amazing record of accomplishment but just goes with lies about how racist he is.

Where it will get interesting is if, after vote reporting, various States start to get added to "the list" of anti-Trump conspirators along with the Democrats, media, most of the science community among others.

Here is one of the crazy parts of some of Trump's supporters. During one of his weekend rallies in Pennsylvania, Trump complained about the state's governor and said, something to the effect of, "Wait until he comes to me the next time with a need for the state!" And, the crowd wildly cheered!! Complete irrationality??!! Cheering for someone telling you that your state will not get federal assistance at the time of state need? I guess their credo must be, "If Trump says it then it's next to God saying it!"

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

Here is one of the crazy parts of some of Trump's supporters. During one of his weekend rallies in Pennsylvania, Trump complained about the state's governor and said, something to the effect of, "Wait until he comes to me the next time with a need for the state!" And, the crowd wildly cheered!! Complete irrationality??!! Cheering for someone telling you that your state will not get federal assistance at the time of state need? I guess their credo must be, "If Trump says it then it's next to God saying it!"

Vinny

It is scary how easily a group/mob mentality can form.

[doodle]

Does this help provide any insight into that segment of our population?

Screenshot_20201103-075039.png (431.26 KiB) Viewed 4588 times

[Cortopassi]

I'd love to say that was a joke. But I know it isn't.

And now I have a really bad image in my head.

[doodle]

An image like this?

donald-trump-statue-union-square-nyc-untapped_cities.jpg (126.43 KiB) Viewed 4587 times

[Cortopassi]

Oh God.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonrei ... 46aefe51a7

Counter photo

[doodle]

I will say though...I held my nose when I voted for Biden. It's literally between dumb and dumber.

Here you go, Techno...you'll enjoy this one of Biden making an ass out of himself.


https://youtu.be/2HHqcr43qr0

[Xan]

Wow, that is indeed very confused. The theological term "Immaculate Conception" refers to the Roman Catholic idea of the conception of Mary, not of Jesus. The Immaculate Conception is not the same thing as the virgin birth.

[Cortopassi]

Wow, that is indeed very confused. The theological term "Immaculate Conception" refers to the Roman Catholic idea of the conception of Mary, not of Jesus. The Immaculate Conception is not the same thing as the virgin birth.

I did not know that! And I went to Catholic school for grades 1-8. Not that at that age they would have actually explained what the terms meant!

[doodle]

Here is one of the crazy parts of some of Trump's supporters. During one of his weekend rallies in Pennsylvania, Trump complained about the state's governor and said, something to the effect of, "Wait until he comes to me the next time with a need for the state!" And, the crowd wildly cheered!! Complete irrationality??!! Cheering for someone telling you that your state will not get federal assistance at the time of state need? I guess their credo must be, "If Trump says it then it's next to God saying it!"

Vinny

I assume it's similar in PA, but basing on IL, Pritker and Lightfoot have done nothing but criticize and ridicule everything Trump says or does. Everything. Over the years, there have been people who did not like me for whatever reason, and acted similarly toward me. I can tell you I had zero interest in being nice to them or coming to their aid if they needed something. You reap what you sow.

Yeah, except it's the small guy who suffers.

[Cortopassi]

So you agree with me that the behavior of Dem leaders is fomenting a lot of this?

pug, I don't know if things could have been different given Trump's background, but there was at least the hope in some of us he would have risen to be more presidential and that could have helped the relationships. He obviously has no issues spending money, so I am sure he and the democrats could have been more productive and less confrontational.

I would go back to your you reap what you sow comment. It's not all on him but a large part certainly is.

[Cortopassi]

Here is one of the crazy parts of some of Trump's supporters. During one of his weekend rallies in Pennsylvania, Trump complained about the state's governor and said, something to the effect of, "Wait until he comes to me the next time with a need for the state!" And, the crowd wildly cheered!! Complete irrationality??!! Cheering for someone telling you that your state will not get federal assistance at the time of state need? I guess their credo must be, "If Trump says it then it's next to God saying it!"

Vinny

It is scary how easily a group/mob mentality can form.

Yes, it certainly is: https://www.westernjournal.com/portland ... ple-homes/

Mobs are certainly not limited to one political viewpoint.