What Did Trump Do That Was So Bad?

[yankees60]

I'm pretty sure he is implying there is a way to have both $1,000,000 in income and pay next to $0 in tax, especially if the business is commercial real estate. Good tax attorneys use every loophole in the tax code to their client's advantage.

I'd prefer he explain exactly what he means rather than making it like Trump's spokespeople: "This is what he meant...."

It's a myth that there are seemingly always all these loopholes out there that only good tax attorneys know. It can be a relatively simple, straightforward situation in spite of there being $1,000,000 in income which result in NO loopholes to utilize.

I've done some people's tax returns that had high income but their tax returns were relatively simple and easy to complete. On the other hand I've done some people's tax returns of not that high income yet they had so many issues that made it a much more complex return to complete.

Vinny

[Libertarian666]

I'm pretty sure he is implying there is a way to have both $1,000,000 in income and pay next to $0 in tax, especially if the business is commercial real estate. Good tax attorneys use every loophole in the tax code to their client's advantage.

Yes, and good accountants do the same.

[yankees60]

I'm pretty sure he is implying there is a way to have both $1,000,000 in income and pay next to $0 in tax, especially if the business is commercial real estate. Good tax attorneys use every loophole in the tax code to their client's advantage.

Yes, and good accountants do the same.

Still awaiting your choice I gave you between #1 and #2 above.

Vinny

[sophie]

I'd take choice 3): $1,000,000 in income but only $100K in taxes.

Choice 2) is if someone like Vinny, who wants to complete tax schedules as simply as possible, is your accountant. Choice 3) is available if you have an accountant who knows how to optimize finances based on the byzantine tax rules applicable to commercial real estate.

Personally I'd prefer to hire the 2nd type of accountant, although I expect they'd be pricier and less likely to be taking new clients. If I wanted to avoid taking all but the most common tax deductions I'd just do it myself, as you wouldn't really need an accountant for that would you?

[yankees60]

It's become obvious to me that my simple statement's point has eluded being understood by some here because they have brought their own assumptions to their interpretation.

Therefore I will clearly lay out the scenario with assumptions.

1) Somehow you have located the best tax accountant / lawyer in the universe. You bring any set of tax facts to this person and this person will ALWAYS come up with the lowest taxes. Of course that would depend if your goal was the lowest taxes for just this year or over a period of years. But whatever the tax facts are and your time period goal this person is YOUR go to tax person.

2) You choose a one year goal for the least amount of taxes. Wonders of wonders your person tells you you owe zero federal taxes for 2018.

3) For 2018 you again choose the one year goal. All tax facts are the same in 2019 except your business's profits have gone way, way, way up so that now this best person in the universe tells you your federal tax for 2019 is $200,000. Remember this person is the best in the universe and has taken every single loophole that anyone could possibly employ.

4) Is there anyone here who wishes for 2018 outcome year after year? If so, I'd sure like to know the reasons why! I'd take the 2019 outcome year after year after year.

5) My basic point is that businesses having profits are a causation for higher taxes. It is also a causation for higher after-tax income. What is your ultimate goal? To pay the least taxes possible? Or, to have the highest possible after tax income? I'm going to want the latter for myself and advise anyone that the latter is the best for them.

If an entrepreneur is going to work 55-60 hours a week I'm going to advise that business owner to do whatever possible to drive the highest possible income for that business, which is then going to result in paying more individual taxes (and I'm referring to a Sub S corporation scenario here). I'm not going to tell them to have non-necessary expenses so as to break-even and have that business generate no personal tax consequences. That tactic also drastically reduces the cash the person is ultimately going to get out of that business.

Which god do you worship? I worship the highest possible after-tax income god. Not the no or lowest possible taxes god.

Vinny

[Tortoise]

To answer the OP, I think what Trump did to spark most of the Orange Man Bad phenomenon was to:
1. Be an “unpresidential” outsider to politics who shocked the establishment by managing somehow to get elected as President, and
2. Relentlessly troll the establishment in response to their relentless attacks of him, instead of just bending over and taking it

The media has conditioned at least some people to think orange man bad through years of incessant criticism of him. My wife (a registered Democrat) is one such person.

A couple of days ago, she and I were walking our baby in her stroller through the neighborhood. We passed in front of a house with a flagpole in the front yard; it held a big American flag and a big Trump flag below it.

The guy who lives there (looked to be in his 60s) came out of his garage to look at the rising full moon and struck up a conversation with us as we walked by. He asked us if our baby was a boy or girl and then proceeded to tell us about his new baby granddaughter. One of the friendliest guys I’ve met in a long time.

As we were walking away, my wife turned to me and said, “That’s the guy with the big Trump flag in his yard. I wonder if he would have flipped out if we’d answered his question by saying we haven’t assigned our baby a gender and will let it eventually pick its own. <snicker>”

I reminded my wife that Trump isn’t a backwoods, honky-tonk social conservative and has actually been affiliated with several different political parties over the years (including the Democratic Party in the 2000s). So he isn’t exactly a gay-basher.

It just reminded me how brainwashed many people are about Trump, including my own wife. It’s really impressive what the media has done.

[Cortopassi]

I don’t understand why people think the media has brainwashed people about Trump, and if so, it 100% works both ways for people who watch Fox News.

For me, it is him. His statements. His manners. His voice.

Please defend his latest statements on doctors. I will not argue that there is likely some small percentage trying to use Corona to pull in more money. But to just wholesale stereotype doctors with what he said, after they fixed him and many have died over the past few months, one doesn’t need to look much past that snippet of a rally to determine he’s a jerk, and should just get himself a conservative radio show and leave government to someone else.

[yankees60]

I don’t understand why people think the media has brainwashed people about Trump, and if so, it 100% works both ways for people who watch Fox News.

For me, it is him. His statements. His manners. His voice.

Please defend his latest statements on doctors. I will not argue that there is likely some small percentage trying to use Corona to pull in more money. But to just wholesale stereotype doctors with what he said, after they fixed him and many have died over the past few months, one doesn’t need to look much past that snippet of a rally to determine he’s a jerk, and should just get himself a conservative radio show and leave government to someone else.

Right now I have on (from the C-Span video archives) his rally in Iowa from earlier today. As usual, he is absolutely entertaining. Those who have BDS will totally love the portion where they played a whole bunch of Biden flubs back-to-back-to-back-to............That was amusing, especially what Trump has to add to it. The message seems to have finally go through to his followers, though. I do not see anyone behind him WITHOUT a mask. Somehow they've all been brainwashed!

Finally like you I will wait here for the defense of his remarks regarding the doctors. How can anyone be shocked by what he said? It's just an integral part of his highly defective character. Rush L is going to be no longer doing his job soon, correct? Have we got the candidate to replace him! Someone else vindictive and with no regard for the truth!

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

I don’t understand why people think the media has brainwashed people about Trump...

I'm assuming that you are serious, so here's a small sample after the tremendous effort of typing "Trump is Hitler" into my search engine:

"Trump is Copying Hitler"
https://www.independentnews.com/mailbox ... c40e9.html

"Leading Civil Rights Lawyer Shows 20 Ways Trump Is Copying Hitler’s Early Rhetoric and Policies"
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019 ... etoric-and

"Just How Similar Is Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler?"
https://www.newsweek.com/just-how-simil ... ler-501252

"Trump is copying Hitler’s early rhetoric and policies in 20 different ways"
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/08/trump- ... rent-ways/

"Are Hitler-Trump Comparisons Fair? A Holocaust Survivor Tells His Son"
https://www.thewrap.com/are-hitler-trum ... s-his-son/

"Donald Trump using Adolf Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' playbook, says world expert on Nazi leader"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 68506.html

Is that enough or do you need another dozen or so?

Yes, the left is partially brainwashed. But so is the right. Are you telling me no?

You telling me that people were not brainwashed by Fox that Obama wasn't -- (fill in)?? Born here? A Christian?? Etc, etc.

Whatever man.

[Tortoise]

I don’t understand why people think the media has brainwashed people about Trump, and if so, it 100% works both ways for people who watch Fox News.

In my previous post, I gave a specific example of how a Democrat (my wife) has been brainwashed by the media about Trump in regards to his position on LGBTQ people. She was under the impression that Trump is generally a hateful bigot on that issue, when in fact I haven't seen any evidence suggesting he is.

I'm sure there are quite a few "low-information" right-leaning folks who have been brainwashed by Fox News regarding Trump or Biden, but I can't think of any obvious examples personally. Most people that I know who are right-leaning are avid readers of various news sources -- not just Fox News -- so they typically have decent evidence to support their right-leaning positions.

For me, it is him. His statements. His manners. His voice.

That's fine; for the record, I don't think you're brainwashed at all. You're far too intelligent and "high-information" to be brainwashed. You're on hospice for a terminal case of TDS (my condolences, by the way), but you're not brainwashed.

[Cortopassi]

We'll see tomorrow. Continued end of the republic by an authoritarian or end of the republic by a socialist.

If you haven't seen this, even if you are a Trump supporter, it was well made.

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status ... 2983366656

[doodle]

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Hmmm...looks familiar.

[doodle]

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Can you imagine if these highway shutdowns had been conducted by throngs of black people instead of Trumptards? Techno would be typing in 80pt font and Tom would probably have keeled over from a burst aneurysm. That right there is the definition of white priviledge.

[doodle]

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Or let's reverse this one and say gangs of antifa loonies surround Trump bus and attempt to force off highway. I'm starting to think Trump might fracture this nation.

[glennds]

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I'm starting to think Trump might fracture this nation.

Might?

[sophie]

Second what Tom wrote but I have a different perspective:

Any time you have a government-imposed system, a lot of money and effort will go into squeezing out every last dime from it. It's nothing to do with trying to rip off society or whatever, it's just how business works: optimize the bottom line. If you don't do that, you're not a good businessperson.

This applies to all fields: real estate, medicine, law, your corner store, etc. Even you when you go shopping....don't you do things like compare prices and pick the best deal you can find? Is that "gaming the system" if you do that?

Yes, it is absolutely a myth that doctors work independently. We do insofar as susceptibility to malpractice suits, but when it comes to earning money we're no different from the janitors. We're employees of hospitals or large practices, and we gotta do what we're told. There are heavy-handed controls on everything we do. The decisions are made by non-clinical executives or business administrators.

The hospitals/practices are certainly out to make every last dime they can, while technically following the rules. So yes, Trump is correct that they are "gaming the system", but he's wrong to pitch it as a critique. The system is set up to be gamed. If you don't like the results, it's on people imposing the system to change it.

[glennds]

The hospitals/practices are certainly out to make every last dime they can, while technically following the rules. So yes, Trump is correct that they are "gaming the system", but he's wrong to pitch it as a critique. The system is set up to be gamed. If you don't like the results, it's on people imposing the system to change it.

If his critique of the system and the alleged gaming had come up pre-Covid, perhaps as part of his campaign platform in 2016, it would have been one thing. For the critique to come up now at a time when it also conveniently deflects attention from a sensitive political vulnerability for himself is another thing.

Also, his comments might have more credibility if he would've finally unveiled the long awaited comprehensive Trump healthcare plan which has been touted to resolve these and many other issues in the dysfunctional health care system. But unfortunately all we've seen is a nothingburger on that front.

[doodle]

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I'm starting to think Trump might fracture this nation.

Might?

In the Humpty Dumpty sense...like never put back together again. I am convinced we are watching an ascendant fascist narrative here.

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[glennds]

35090166-8901207-image-a-8_1604183523378.jpg
I'm starting to think Trump might fracture this nation.

Might?

In the Humpty Dumpty sense...like never put back together again. I am convinced we are watching an ascendant fascist narrative here.

4caj8igwssw51.png

Screenshot_20201102-075727.png
CharlottesvilleNazis640.png

5e47110596eee625936fcc65.jpeg

Well maybe, but I really wasn't implying a literal Nazi metaphor, at least not at this point.
But I am saying he is a uniquely divisive and polarizing president. I would like to think even the most ardent Trump supporters would not go so far as to call him a great unifier.
Does anyone think a highly polarized society is a good thing in the long run? Some people seem to think so, as long as their tribe is the winning one. But you have to question whether there are any winners at the end of the road we are on. Well maybe one person. Or maybe a foreign country or two.

Either way, I predict we should all buckle up and prepare for the possibility that tomorrow is only the first round of a slugfest that will go on for weeks if not months.
Lots of lawyers, lots of court hearings, and a display for the rest of the world of how democracy is not supposed to work. And possibly a stark display of just how imperfect our hallowed Constitution really is.

[doodle]

We are watching the rise of two completely opposing yet equally intolerant entities in this country. The only strategy I can think of at this point is to ping pong between the one and the other so that neither one can gain too much power.

[doodle]

If you can't see the similarities between these two you havent thought too deeply about human behavior.

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[Cortopassi]

For the critique to come up now at a time when it also conveniently deflects attention from a sensitive political vulnerability for himself is another thing.

Exactly.

After watching Frontline last night (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... -vs-biden/), it does cement for me that he is an amazing marketer...of himself generally, and it worked very well, especially for TV.

His biggest shortcoming that seems to color everything he does is there must be a loser in a negotiation. Does not work really well in government. There's only allowed a single winner: Trump.

They went into some detail on Frontline on one of the major reasons his marriage to Ivana fell apart was because she was as driven as he was and he could not deal with her getting accolades for her successes. It had to/has to always be about him.

[doodle]

You don't unify a group of people and your opponents by insulting and bullying them. Compromise doesn't work that way. That's how civil wars begin. I know you want to see America unified, you have chosen a person however who is incapable of doing that. He has been embroiled in battle his entire life...over 3500 lawsuits. What makes you think a man like that is capable of bringing peace?

[doodle]

The hatred of the other can grow so strong as to blind one from glaringly obvious flaws on one's own side. Both parties are guilty of this. I absolutely abhor the democrats identity politics and reluctancr to invoke the importance of responsibility. On the other hand, we have a leader in power who won't accept responsibility for anything and doesnt understand that if you bully and call names you are liable to get the same in return. The problems in our country are complex and require thoughtful dialogue ...unfortunately we are incapable of anything even close to that right now...and it's getting worse. Our nation is completely coming apart at the seams....Tom doesn't want public schools anymore, Techno thinks any criticism of lord Trump is a mental derangement. People on this board advocate for citizens owning unlimited military firepower. Basic healthcare guaranteed in every other industrialized nation is straight up communism and we should let people die on the streets...yet, praise Jesus! ...I'm really not sure about this country anymore. Slowly I don't think a wall will be necessary. I honestly don't think people will have any desire to come here. I for one am investigating my options to leave. Canada has some decent skilled worker immigration options. Ohhhh Canaaadaaaa

[yankees60]

35090166-8901207-image-a-8_1604183523378.jpg
I'm starting to think Trump might fracture this nation.

Might?

In the Humpty Dumpty sense...like never put back together again. I am convinced we are watching an ascendant fascist narrative here.

4caj8igwssw51.png

Screenshot_20201102-075727.png
CharlottesvilleNazis640.png

5e47110596eee625936fcc65.jpeg

Well maybe, but I really wasn't implying a literal Nazi metaphor, at least not at this point.
But I am saying he is a uniquely divisive and polarizing president. I would like to think even the most ardent Trump supporters would not go so far as to call him a great unifier.
Does anyone think a highly polarized society is a good thing in the long run? Some people seem to think so, as long as their tribe is the winning one. But you have to question whether there are any winners at the end of the road we are on. Well maybe one person. Or maybe a foreign country or two.

Either way, I predict we should all buckle up and prepare for the possibility that tomorrow is only the first round of a slugfest that will go on for weeks if not months.
Lots of lawyers, lots of court hearings, and a display for the rest of the world of how democracy is not supposed to work. And possibly a stark display of just how imperfect our hallowed Constitution really is.

On the other hand, this could well turn out to be similar to the 1980 election. Clear cut winner declared tomorrow night. All the court fights will be over some of the senate elections.

Vinny