Estate Taxes

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pugchief
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Estate Taxes

Post by pugchief » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:30 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:45 pm
There is a certain hereditary aspect given the staggering levels of wealth being transferred from one generation to another with little or no tax.
If I work hard to earn, and then save instead of spend, I feel like I should be able to bequeath my already taxed money to whomever I want upon my passing without paying more tax. I don't think the uber wealthy should be any different, because well, today the threshold is $10M, tomorrow the politicians may decide to make it $100,000. I'm curious how others here view this topic. Feel free to try to change my mind.
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:45 pm

pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:30 pm
Ad Orientem wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:45 pm
There is a certain hereditary aspect given the staggering levels of wealth being transferred from one generation to another with little or no tax.
If I work hard to earn, and then save instead of spend, I feel like I should be able to bequeath my already taxed money to whomever I want upon my passing without paying more tax. I don't think the uber wealthy should be any different, because well, today the threshold is $10M, tomorrow the politicians may decide to make it $100,000. I'm curious how others here view this topic. Feel free to try to change my mind.
Agree.
Romans 1:16-32
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by dualstow » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:02 pm

There was an article in the Guardian a couple years ago in which the author was lamenting the transfer of wealth by heredity. The figure for Britain didn't seem that bad. I think it was like 3% of land ownership. He also mentioned that his father didn't leave him anything. Sour grapes?

For me, this is also related to severe taxes on the wealthy (for the most part). Why would anyone want to work and/or save if they're going to be penalized for it?
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by PP67 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:06 pm

Why wait until you die?

Sanders' wealth tax plan would would raise a $4.35 trillion over 10 years, Saez and Zucman estimated, to pay for programs such as "Medicare for all" and universal child care. It would apply to households with a net worth above $32 million, which is about 180,000 households — the top 0.1% — starting at a 1% tax rate and rising to 8% for married couples with more than $10 billion in wealth.

In contrast, Warren’s plan would raise approximately $2.75 trillion over a decade, also by Saez and Zucman's estimates, by levying a 2% wealth tax on assets worth more than $50 million, and a 3% tax on fortunes worth more than $1 billion. Saez and Zucman reckon the tax would hit approximately 75,000 families.
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by pugchief » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:11 pm

PP67 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:06 pm
Why wait until you die?

Sanders' wealth tax plan would would raise a $4.35 trillion over 10 years, Saez and Zucman estimated, to pay for programs such as "Medicare for all" and universal child care. It would apply to households with a net worth above $32 million, which is about 180,000 households — the top 0.1% — starting at a 1% tax rate and rising to 8% for married couples with more than $10 billion in wealth.

In contrast, Warren’s plan would raise approximately $2.75 trillion over a decade, also by Saez and Zucman's estimates, by levying a 2% wealth tax on assets worth more than $50 million, and a 3% tax on fortunes worth more than $1 billion. Saez and Zucman reckon the tax would hit approximately 75,000 families.
I have no idea how they think they are going to be able to know everyone's wealth, and there will be massive incentive to hide it. But once again, if the threshold is $32M now, who is to say it won't be $1M ten years from now when they realize they grossly underestimated the cost of these 'free stuff' programs. If you don't belive me, look at Obamacare.
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by dualstow » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:51 pm

(pug) I have no idea how they think they are going to be able to know everyone's wealth, and there will be massive incentive to hide it
There was an article a few months back about celebrities and other high-earners of the 50’s and how they got around exorbitant taxes, paying very little.
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by sophie » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:33 am

pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:11 pm
But once again, if the threshold is $32M now, who is to say it won't be $1M ten years from now when they realize they grossly underestimated the cost of these 'free stuff' programs. If you don't belive me, look at Obamacare.
+1. That's the "slippery slope" problem. Also yes, implementing a wealth tax will be kind of ridiculous. How is the government going to value your grandmother's gold jewelry, the valuable oil painting you bought at auction, or your expensive designer clothes, and how will they even find out about it unless they're going to start raiding expensive homes and conducting thief-worthy searches? Or our gold bullion coins for that matter.
Watch for purchase of those things, to take money off the government's radar, to explode if a wealth tax is passed.

Another big problem with a wealth tax, which includes estate taxes, is that it makes it very difficult to maintain small family-run businesses through generations. Not a lot of these have the kind of cash reserves needed to cover wealth taxes. I wonder if this is in large part why we have mostly mega-conglomerates (e.g. Home Depot) instead of small family-run hardware stores, to take an example.
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by Maddy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:40 pm

pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:11 pm
I have no idea how they think they are going to be able to know everyone's wealth, and there will be massive incentive to hide it.
The underlying assumption could not be clearer: that a centralized digital payment system is coming, augmented by a massive centralized data base that tracks your comings and goings 24/7.
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by technovelist » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:21 pm

pugchief wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:11 pm
PP67 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:06 pm
Why wait until you die?

Sanders' wealth tax plan would would raise a $4.35 trillion over 10 years, Saez and Zucman estimated, to pay for programs such as "Medicare for all" and universal child care. It would apply to households with a net worth above $32 million, which is about 180,000 households — the top 0.1% — starting at a 1% tax rate and rising to 8% for married couples with more than $10 billion in wealth.

In contrast, Warren’s plan would raise approximately $2.75 trillion over a decade, also by Saez and Zucman's estimates, by levying a 2% wealth tax on assets worth more than $50 million, and a 3% tax on fortunes worth more than $1 billion. Saez and Zucman reckon the tax would hit approximately 75,000 families.
I have no idea how they think they are going to be able to know everyone's wealth, and there will be massive incentive to hide it. But once again, if the threshold is $32M now, who is to say it won't be $1M ten years from now when they realize they grossly underestimated the cost of these 'free stuff' programs. If you don't belive me, look at Obamacare.
They will know it because they will also have a national wealth registry, which of course would NEVER be used for confiscation!
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by moda0306 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:36 pm

Inheritances are income to the receiving party.

Forget the estate tax. Tax it within the income tax regime.
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:10 am

moda0306 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:36 pm
Inheritances are income to the receiving party.

Forget the estate tax. Tax it within the income tax regime.
I'd think that would have the same problems as the wealth tax. If your parents liked to collect art or cars or nice tools or some other non-financial things, and passed them down to you, you'd have to get them appraised, then come up with 15% of their value to pay to the government? What if a parent leaves their shares of the business to their child, they have to hire an auditor to tell them how much their family business is worth so that they know how big of a check to cut to the government? Seems wrong.
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Re: Estate Taxes

Post by pugchief » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:27 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:10 am
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:36 pm
Inheritances are income to the receiving party.

Forget the estate tax. Tax it within the income tax regime.
I'd think that would have the same problems as the wealth tax. If your parents liked to collect art or cars or nice tools or some other non-financial things, and passed them down to you, you'd have to get them appraised, then come up with 15% of their value to pay to the government? What if a parent leaves their shares of the business to their child, they have to hire an auditor to tell them how much their family business is worth so that they know how big of a check to cut to the government? Seems wrong.
Of course it is wrong. That money has already been taxed.
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