Will Trump be Re-elected?

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Will Trump be Re-elected?

Trump is more effective than people are willing to admit [ala Scott Adams] and will be re-elected.
24
38%
Hillary will run again in 2020, and thus Trump will beat her again.
3
5%
Trump will cause the GOP to lose one or both houses of congress in the mid-term elections.
6
9%
The Dems in congress will be so insufferable, Trumps wins by a small margin despite them.
14
22%
Trump will choose not to run for re-election, since he never really wanted the job anyway.
7
11%
Trump is a disaster and will lose by a landslide.
5
8%
Trump will not only lose, but will lose to a candidate so far to the left that people will wish he'd stayed.
3
5%
Other, please elaborate.
2
3%
 
Total votes: 64
doodle
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm

So, yes, compared to what else is on offer, I personally think that Trump's demeanor reflects well on our country. He's comfortable in his own skin (as creepy and scaly as that might be).
I'm not following this argument... An authentic asshole, who doesn't try to filter his public behavior or reactions like an adult but instead flys off the handle with sweaty red faced tantrums at every offense, who hurls playground insults and publically bullies any and all opponents, is someone who reflects well on our country? A president who publically questions who is a bigger enemy of the United States, a communist adversary or the President of the Fed? A man who takes the word of Russia over his own intelligence community? The tone and demeanor of Donald Trump is a stain on the executive branch. I am no fan of race baiting identity politics in the Democratic party or even many of their policies but Trump is an awful leader and a corrupt narrcistic megalomaniac. He has all the qualities of a banana republic dictator. I cannot understand how this is not painfully obvious.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by stuper1 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:38 pm

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
A president who publically questions who is a bigger enemy of the United States, a communist adversary or the President of the Fed? A man who takes the word of Russia over his own intelligence community?
I suspect he has shown excellent judgment in both of those examples you gave above.

Is the communist adversary Russia or some other country? Either way, it doesn't matter, I suspect the President of the Fed is a bigger enemy to our wellbeing.

Our own intelligence community has already shown itself many times to be Trump's enemy. I would trust them little if I were him.

As for the rest of it, like I said, if some Boy/Girl Scout with an excellent demeanor and policies arises, then by all means vote for that person. As it is, we don't have much to pick from. Big government is not the answer to our ills.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:20 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
So, yes, compared to what else is on offer, I personally think that Trump's demeanor reflects well on our country. He's comfortable in his own skin (as creepy and scaly as that might be).
I'm not following this argument... An authentic asshole, who doesn't try to filter his public behavior or reactions like an adult but instead flys off the handle with sweaty red faced tantrums at every offense, who hurls playground insults and publically bullies any and all opponents, is someone who reflects well on our country? A president who publically questions who is a bigger enemy of the United States, a communist adversary or the President of the Fed? A man who takes the word of Russia over his own intelligence community? The tone and demeanor of Donald Trump is a stain on the executive branch. I am no fan of race baiting identity politics in the Democratic party or even many of their policies but Trump is an awful leader and a corrupt narrcistic megalomaniac. He has all the qualities of a banana republic dictator. I cannot understand how this is not painfully obvious.
Different people want different things from their “leaders”. I have to put leaders in quotes because given their performance, I often question why we use that term to describe politicians.

Anyway, for me it’s about style vs substance. I prefer and expect officials at every level to put their constituents first and fight for them when it’s required. Sometimes the right people for that job come with flaws that have to be tolerated or overlooked. I am much more willing to put up with Trump’s antics than to allow yet another phony “kinder, gentler” politician to give us “all the feels” while secretly selling the country out in a multitude of ways.

Many people voted for Trump in order to throw a bomb into the swamp and see what happens. Although a thorough draining is unrealistic, you have to start somewhere and it’s worth a shot. Maybe it’ll all go to hell in a hand basket, who knows. But it’s clear that many of the most dire predictions about Trump simply have not come true.

Some people will never get over the style issues, and that’s fine. But when you cannot understand how things are not painfully obvious to others, you have to consider that they may be using different criteria by which to judge.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:59 am

flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:20 am
doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
So, yes, compared to what else is on offer, I personally think that Trump's demeanor reflects well on our country. He's comfortable in his own skin (as creepy and scaly as that might be).
I'm not following this argument... An authentic asshole, who doesn't try to filter his public behavior or reactions like an adult but instead flys off the handle with sweaty red faced tantrums at every offense, who hurls playground insults and publically bullies any and all opponents, is someone who reflects well on our country? A president who publically questions who is a bigger enemy of the United States, a communist adversary or the President of the Fed? A man who takes the word of Russia over his own intelligence community? The tone and demeanor of Donald Trump is a stain on the executive branch. I am no fan of race baiting identity politics in the Democratic party or even many of their policies but Trump is an awful leader and a corrupt narrcistic megalomaniac. He has all the qualities of a banana republic dictator. I cannot understand how this is not painfully obvious.
Different people want different things from their “leaders”. I have to put leaders in quotes because given their performance, I often question why we use that term to describe politicians.

Anyway, for me it’s about style vs substance. I prefer and expect officials at every level to put their constituents first and fight for them when it’s required. Sometimes the right people for that job come with flaws that have to be tolerated or overlooked. I am much more willing to put up with Trump’s antics than to allow yet another phony “kinder, gentler” politician to give us “all the feels” while secretly selling the country out in a multitude of ways.

Many people voted for Trump in order to throw a bomb into the swamp and see what happens. Although a thorough draining is unrealistic, you have to start somewhere and it’s worth a shot. Maybe it’ll all go to hell in a hand basket, who knows. But it’s clear that many of the most dire predictions about Trump simply have not come true.

Some people will never get over the style issues, and that’s fine. But when you cannot understand how things are not painfully obvious to others, you have to consider that they may be using different criteria by which to judge.

Besides setting policy the president is also the figurehead of the nation and as such is supposed to at least embody certain ideals or characteristics that constitute decency, morality, bravery. Trump is no leader to admire. Besides obstruction of justice...(trying to fire Robert Mueller) and collusion with foreign governments to influence elections as well as having his mental stability and capacity routinely questioned by those who have worked in proximity to him... he is a giant manbaby who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. He is a whiner who screams about how unfair everything is, yet fails to recognize that the silver spoon he was born with wasn't fair either. This is the type of leader who is going to make America great again? A pouty, overly sensitive, whiny manchild? The prostitutes and hush money, the shady business dealings. Speaking of substance, look up his history with Deutsche Bank...shocking. not exactly the operations of a normal functioning business....more like weird shady bilking of investors and manipulation of a corrupt banking entity. I have worked with contractors and construction workers who years ago did construction for Trump and had nothing but negative things to say about him. How he wouldn't pay them for work they did. How he would come in after work was done and offer them half of what he had agreed to and then tie them up with legal threats. How is that substance? That's smoke and mirrors. The guy is a scumbag, not a leader, not a business icon. I'm not saying that politicians as a whole aren't corrupt and shady, although there are many decent ones, I'm saying that Trump embodies all the greed, corruption, narcism, and selfishness that I think will eventually crush our republic. While Bush or Obama might not be icons themselves I at least had respect for them as humans, whereas I wouldn't want to spend five minutes in a room together with Trump. Now, I do agree with many of his policies however the way in which he is attempting to implement and deliver them is tearing our nation apart. I'm no fan of illegal imigration for example but to package that issue as one which demonizes immigrants as dangerous rapists sets a tone that then leads to a certain paranoia and rage among people that can end in tragedy. He ratchets up the fear and anger because he himself is not a gounded well adjusted human. He has all the same personality characteristics of a Saddam Hussein or Fidel Castro except he is fortunately limited by the foresight of our founding fathers. You don't think he wouldnt carry through on his hintings to kill the whistle blower if his ability to do such weren't limited? Listen to the man he hides nothing, "in my great and unmatched wisdom"...this is exactly the leader that our founding fathers worried would one day come along and why they spent so much time drafting a constitution to protect us against them.
Last edited by doodle on Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:08 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:09 am

secretly selling the country out in a multitude of ways.
Please elaborate. In what ways? There are forces at play here that go beyond executive branch policy. I would argue that the forces of free market capitalism and technology account for most of the struggles of the middle and lower classes. The wealthy in our country have never done better than over the last 30 years.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by sophie » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:12 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
So, yes, compared to what else is on offer, I personally think that Trump's demeanor reflects well on our country. He's comfortable in his own skin (as creepy and scaly as that might be).
I'm not following this argument... An authentic asshole, who doesn't try to filter his public behavior or reactions like an adult but instead flys off the handle with sweaty red faced tantrums at every offense, who hurls playground insults and publically bullies any and all opponents...
True. But is it sufficient basis for deciding on your vote?

Yes, just about every public communication from Trump makes me wince and squirm, and his attacks on individuals are distasteful to put it mildly. I But I think his instincts about public policy, reptilian as they are, are almost always spot on. It's how he got elected in the first place: he put his finger on topics that no one else was able to see, but that resonated deeply with voters. There is also the behind the scenes cleaning up of regulations that isn't getting much press because it's such mundane stuff, but I suspect that the positive impact on the economy has been sizeable.

If you remember George H.W. Bush's presidency, it was remarkable that the man was never able to open his mouth and sound like an intelligent human being. Every speech or public appearance was embarrassing. But that itself should not have been the reason for voting him out of office - at least I hope it wasn't.

In contrast, the proposals put forward by the very urbane, politically correct and well-behaved Democratic candidates would mostly be disasters if implemented as described. And they are all stuck in their imaginary world, with absolutely no appreciation for what's happening in real life.

Flyingpylon and I are not the only ones focusing on substance over style. You won't hear much about it because such voices are drowned out by the single-minded drumbeat in the press, and we know it's risky to reveal our true opinion. I predict that 2020 will be a repeat of 2016: the polls will predict a Democratic landslide, and once again they'll be spectacularly wrong. Unless of course a candidate emerges with Trump's instinct for policy but minus the personal issues. Unfortunately I doubt such a thing exists. Good boy/girl scouts just don't generally run for office.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by shekels » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:17 am

doodle wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:59 am
flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:20 am
doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm


I'm not following this argument... An authentic asshole, who doesn't try to filter his public behavior or reactions like an adult but instead flys off the handle with sweaty red faced tantrums at every offense, who hurls playground insults and publically bullies any and all opponents, is someone who reflects well on our country? A president who publically questions who is a bigger enemy of the United States, a communist adversary or the President of the Fed? A man who takes the word of Russia over his own intelligence community? The tone and demeanor of Donald Trump is a stain on the executive branch. I am no fan of race baiting identity politics in the Democratic party or even many of their policies but Trump is an awful leader and a corrupt narrcistic megalomaniac. He has all the qualities of a banana republic dictator. I cannot understand how this is not painfully obvious.
Different people want different things from their “leaders”. I have to put leaders in quotes because given their performance, I often question why we use that term to describe politicians.

Anyway, for me it’s about style vs substance. I prefer and expect officials at every level to put their constituents first and fight for them when it’s required. Sometimes the right people for that job come with flaws that have to be tolerated or overlooked. I am much more willing to put up with Trump’s antics than to allow yet another phony “kinder, gentler” politician to give us “all the feels” while secretly selling the country out in a multitude of ways.

Many people voted for Trump in order to throw a bomb into the swamp and see what happens. Although a thorough draining is unrealistic, you have to start somewhere and it’s worth a shot. Maybe it’ll all go to hell in a hand basket, who knows. But it’s clear that many of the most dire predictions about Trump simply have not come true.

Some people will never get over the style issues, and that’s fine. But when you cannot understand how things are not painfully obvious to others, you have to consider that they may be using different criteria by which to judge.

Besides setting policy the president is also the figurehead of the nation and as such is supposed to at least embody certain ideals or characteristics that constitute decency, morality, bravery. Trump is no leader to admire. Besides obstruction of justice...(trying to fire Robert Mueller) and collusion with foreign governments to influence elections as well as having his mental stability and capacity routinely questioned by those who have worked in proximity to him... he is a giant manbaby who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. He is a whiner who screams about how unfair everything is, yet fails to recognize that the silver spoon he was born with wasn't fair either. This is the type of leader who is going to make America great again? A pouty, overly sensitive, whiny manchild? The prostitutes and hush money, the shady business dealings. Speaking of substance, look up his history with Deutsche Bank...shocking. not exactly the operations of a normal functioning business....more like weird shady bilking of investors and manipulation of a corrupt banking entity. I have worked with contractors and construction workers who years ago did construction for Trump and had nothing but negative things to say about him. How he wouldn't pay them for work they did. How he would come in after work was done and offer them half of what he had agreed to and then tie them up with legal threats. How is that substance? That's smoke and mirrors. The guy is a scumbag, not a leader, not a business icon. I'm not saying that politicians as a whole aren't corrupt and shady, although there are many decent ones, I'm saying that Trump embodies all the greed, corruption, narcism, and selfishness that I think will eventually crush our republic. While Bush or Obama might not be icons themselves I at least had respect for them as humans, whereas I wouldn't want to spend five minutes in a room together with Trump. Now, I do agree with many of his policies however the way in which he is attempting to implement and deliver them is tearing our nation apart. I'm no fan of illegal imigration for example but to package that issue as one which demonizes immigrants as dangerous rapists sets a tone that then leads to a certain paranoia and rage among people that can end in tragedy. He ratchets up the fear and anger because he himself is not a gounded well adjusted human. He has all the same personality characteristics of a Saddam Hussein or Fidel Castro except he is fortunately limited by the foresight of our founding fathers. You don't think he wouldnt carry through on his hintings to kill the whistle blower if his ability to do such weren't limited? Listen to the man he hides nothing, "in my great and unmatched wisdom"...this is exactly the leader that our founding fathers worried would one day come along and why they spent so much time drafting a constitution to protect us against them.
james-earl-jones-9357354-1-402.jpg
james-earl-jones-9357354-1-402.jpg (16.54 KiB) Viewed 124 times
THIS IS CNN... is all I read..

I agree with flyingpylon "Some people will never get over the style issues, and that’s fine. But when you cannot understand how things are not painfully obvious to others, you have to consider that they may be using different criteria by which to judge."

The government is a corrupt criminal enterprise. including the intelligence agencies.
So tell me what Candidate will not fall in line with the exact same Corruption?
Last edited by shekels on Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:22 am

Doodle, breathe...!

I feel the same way. Then there are days I think everyone is out to get him, which is fine, but they have to do it in the most open and clear way possible, which they have not been and it frustrates me.

Democrats seem to have been shooting themselves in the foot with these investigations. Not that they don't have merit, but the way they are going about it leaves the door wide open to the fact/conclusion they aren't necessarily protecting the constitution but more just hate the guy and want to get him.

He unfortunately has no interest in unifying the country, and is happy to keep it well divided.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by dualstow » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:34 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
(Trump) has all the qualities of a banana republic dictator. I cannot understand how this is not painfully obvious.
There’s one important difference- banana republic dictators tend to steal from the country coffers. One could argue that the leader of a country like the U.S. doesn’t need to do that (true). And, one could mention that there are some financial shenanigans, lack of tax transparency, emoluments clause, etc (fair enough).

None of that changes the fact that Trump’s crazy Ivan approach, while unattractive, might be what we need to deal with countries like China. We’re going to need someone else in power, I believe, before things genuinely improve for a lot of the waitresses and farmers who voted Trump in. But, unlike a banana republic despot, I think this guy is actually good for the American economy and in a weird way, for foreign policy.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by technovelist » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:08 pm

The Democrat Congress and Presidential candidates seem to be doing everything in their power to alienate independents and even moderate Democrats.

If everything goes on as it is, Trump will win in a landslide and the Republicans will take back the House and keep the Senate.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by moda0306 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:49 pm

technovelist wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:08 pm
The Democrat Congress and Presidential candidates seem to be doing everything in their power to alienate independents and even moderate Democrats.

If everything goes on as it is, Trump will win in a landslide and the Republicans will take back the House and keep the Senate.
What do you consider a "landslide?" There's little precedence for a President with approval ratings this low to win, much less in what could be considered a "landslide."

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/tr ... l-ratings/
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by jacksonm2 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:49 pm

technovelist wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:08 pm
The Democrat Congress and Presidential candidates seem to be doing everything in their power to alienate independents and even moderate Democrats.

If everything goes on as it is, Trump will win in a landslide and the Republicans will take back the House and keep the Senate.
The George McGovern/Richard Nixon precedent seems highly relevant here. Smelling blood in the water over the Vietnam War, "progressives" saw it as their chance to put a far left candidate in the white house. They failed miserably, of course.

No way to tell how this game is going to play out today and whether history will repeat itself. "Progressives" have been hard at work ever since and as far as I can tell so far they have made great strides in changing opinions, starting in the public schools where they have had almost complete control in indoctrinating the younger generations.

Although I tend to think Trump is going to win it wouldn't completely surprise me to find out, as progressives did on election night in 2015 when Trump won, that one of those far left candidates had won the white house.
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