Will Trump be Re-elected?

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Will Trump be Re-elected?

Trump is more effective than people are willing to admit [ala Scott Adams] and will be re-elected.
24
37%
Hillary will run again in 2020, and thus Trump will beat her again.
3
5%
Trump will cause the GOP to lose one or both houses of congress in the mid-term elections.
6
9%
The Dems in congress will be so insufferable, Trumps wins by a small margin despite them.
15
23%
Trump will choose not to run for re-election, since he never really wanted the job anyway.
7
11%
Trump is a disaster and will lose by a landslide.
5
8%
Trump will not only lose, but will lose to a candidate so far to the left that people will wish he'd stayed.
3
5%
Other, please elaborate.
2
3%
 
Total votes: 65
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by stuper1 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:38 pm

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
A president who publically questions who is a bigger enemy of the United States, a communist adversary or the President of the Fed? A man who takes the word of Russia over his own intelligence community?
I suspect he has shown excellent judgment in both of those examples you gave above.

Is the communist adversary Russia or some other country? Either way, it doesn't matter, I suspect the President of the Fed is a bigger enemy to our wellbeing.

Our own intelligence community has already shown itself many times to be Trump's enemy. I would trust them little if I were him.

As for the rest of it, like I said, if some Boy/Girl Scout with an excellent demeanor and policies arises, then by all means vote for that person. As it is, we don't have much to pick from. Big government is not the answer to our ills.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:20 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
So, yes, compared to what else is on offer, I personally think that Trump's demeanor reflects well on our country. He's comfortable in his own skin (as creepy and scaly as that might be).
I'm not following this argument... An authentic asshole, who doesn't try to filter his public behavior or reactions like an adult but instead flys off the handle with sweaty red faced tantrums at every offense, who hurls playground insults and publically bullies any and all opponents, is someone who reflects well on our country? A president who publically questions who is a bigger enemy of the United States, a communist adversary or the President of the Fed? A man who takes the word of Russia over his own intelligence community? The tone and demeanor of Donald Trump is a stain on the executive branch. I am no fan of race baiting identity politics in the Democratic party or even many of their policies but Trump is an awful leader and a corrupt narrcistic megalomaniac. He has all the qualities of a banana republic dictator. I cannot understand how this is not painfully obvious.
Different people want different things from their “leaders”. I have to put leaders in quotes because given their performance, I often question why we use that term to describe politicians.

Anyway, for me it’s about style vs substance. I prefer and expect officials at every level to put their constituents first and fight for them when it’s required. Sometimes the right people for that job come with flaws that have to be tolerated or overlooked. I am much more willing to put up with Trump’s antics than to allow yet another phony “kinder, gentler” politician to give us “all the feels” while secretly selling the country out in a multitude of ways.

Many people voted for Trump in order to throw a bomb into the swamp and see what happens. Although a thorough draining is unrealistic, you have to start somewhere and it’s worth a shot. Maybe it’ll all go to hell in a hand basket, who knows. But it’s clear that many of the most dire predictions about Trump simply have not come true.

Some people will never get over the style issues, and that’s fine. But when you cannot understand how things are not painfully obvious to others, you have to consider that they may be using different criteria by which to judge.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:59 am

flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:20 am
doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
So, yes, compared to what else is on offer, I personally think that Trump's demeanor reflects well on our country. He's comfortable in his own skin (as creepy and scaly as that might be).
I'm not following this argument... An authentic asshole, who doesn't try to filter his public behavior or reactions like an adult but instead flys off the handle with sweaty red faced tantrums at every offense, who hurls playground insults and publically bullies any and all opponents, is someone who reflects well on our country? A president who publically questions who is a bigger enemy of the United States, a communist adversary or the President of the Fed? A man who takes the word of Russia over his own intelligence community? The tone and demeanor of Donald Trump is a stain on the executive branch. I am no fan of race baiting identity politics in the Democratic party or even many of their policies but Trump is an awful leader and a corrupt narrcistic megalomaniac. He has all the qualities of a banana republic dictator. I cannot understand how this is not painfully obvious.
Different people want different things from their “leaders”. I have to put leaders in quotes because given their performance, I often question why we use that term to describe politicians.

Anyway, for me it’s about style vs substance. I prefer and expect officials at every level to put their constituents first and fight for them when it’s required. Sometimes the right people for that job come with flaws that have to be tolerated or overlooked. I am much more willing to put up with Trump’s antics than to allow yet another phony “kinder, gentler” politician to give us “all the feels” while secretly selling the country out in a multitude of ways.

Many people voted for Trump in order to throw a bomb into the swamp and see what happens. Although a thorough draining is unrealistic, you have to start somewhere and it’s worth a shot. Maybe it’ll all go to hell in a hand basket, who knows. But it’s clear that many of the most dire predictions about Trump simply have not come true.

Some people will never get over the style issues, and that’s fine. But when you cannot understand how things are not painfully obvious to others, you have to consider that they may be using different criteria by which to judge.

Besides setting policy the president is also the figurehead of the nation and as such is supposed to at least embody certain ideals or characteristics that constitute decency, morality, bravery. Trump is no leader to admire. Besides obstruction of justice...(trying to fire Robert Mueller) and collusion with foreign governments to influence elections as well as having his mental stability and capacity routinely questioned by those who have worked in proximity to him... he is a giant manbaby who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. He is a whiner who screams about how unfair everything is, yet fails to recognize that the silver spoon he was born with wasn't fair either. This is the type of leader who is going to make America great again? A pouty, overly sensitive, whiny manchild? The prostitutes and hush money, the shady business dealings. Speaking of substance, look up his history with Deutsche Bank...shocking. not exactly the operations of a normal functioning business....more like weird shady bilking of investors and manipulation of a corrupt banking entity. I have worked with contractors and construction workers who years ago did construction for Trump and had nothing but negative things to say about him. How he wouldn't pay them for work they did. How he would come in after work was done and offer them half of what he had agreed to and then tie them up with legal threats. How is that substance? That's smoke and mirrors. The guy is a scumbag, not a leader, not a business icon. I'm not saying that politicians as a whole aren't corrupt and shady, although there are many decent ones, I'm saying that Trump embodies all the greed, corruption, narcism, and selfishness that I think will eventually crush our republic. While Bush or Obama might not be icons themselves I at least had respect for them as humans, whereas I wouldn't want to spend five minutes in a room together with Trump. Now, I do agree with many of his policies however the way in which he is attempting to implement and deliver them is tearing our nation apart. I'm no fan of illegal imigration for example but to package that issue as one which demonizes immigrants as dangerous rapists sets a tone that then leads to a certain paranoia and rage among people that can end in tragedy. He ratchets up the fear and anger because he himself is not a gounded well adjusted human. He has all the same personality characteristics of a Saddam Hussein or Fidel Castro except he is fortunately limited by the foresight of our founding fathers. You don't think he wouldnt carry through on his hintings to kill the whistle blower if his ability to do such weren't limited? Listen to the man he hides nothing, "in my great and unmatched wisdom"...this is exactly the leader that our founding fathers worried would one day come along and why they spent so much time drafting a constitution to protect us against them.
Last edited by doodle on Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:08 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:09 am

secretly selling the country out in a multitude of ways.
Please elaborate. In what ways? There are forces at play here that go beyond executive branch policy. I would argue that the forces of free market capitalism and technology account for most of the struggles of the middle and lower classes. The wealthy in our country have never done better than over the last 30 years.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by WiseOne » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:12 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
So, yes, compared to what else is on offer, I personally think that Trump's demeanor reflects well on our country. He's comfortable in his own skin (as creepy and scaly as that might be).
I'm not following this argument... An authentic asshole, who doesn't try to filter his public behavior or reactions like an adult but instead flys off the handle with sweaty red faced tantrums at every offense, who hurls playground insults and publically bullies any and all opponents...
True. But is it sufficient basis for deciding on your vote?

Yes, just about every public communication from Trump makes me wince and squirm, and his attacks on individuals are distasteful to put it mildly. I But I think his instincts about public policy, reptilian as they are, are almost always spot on. It's how he got elected in the first place: he put his finger on topics that no one else was able to see, but that resonated deeply with voters. There is also the behind the scenes cleaning up of regulations that isn't getting much press because it's such mundane stuff, but I suspect that the positive impact on the economy has been sizeable.

If you remember George H.W. Bush's presidency, it was remarkable that the man was never able to open his mouth and sound like an intelligent human being. Every speech or public appearance was embarrassing. But that itself should not have been the reason for voting him out of office - at least I hope it wasn't.

In contrast, the proposals put forward by the very urbane, politically correct and well-behaved Democratic candidates would mostly be disasters if implemented as described. And they are all stuck in their imaginary world, with absolutely no appreciation for what's happening in real life.

Flyingpylon and I are not the only ones focusing on substance over style. You won't hear much about it because such voices are drowned out by the single-minded drumbeat in the press, and we know it's risky to reveal our true opinion. I predict that 2020 will be a repeat of 2016: the polls will predict a Democratic landslide, and once again they'll be spectacularly wrong. Unless of course a candidate emerges with Trump's instinct for policy but minus the personal issues. Unfortunately I doubt such a thing exists. Good boy/girl scouts just don't generally run for office.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by shekels » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:17 am

doodle wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:59 am
flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:20 am
doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm


I'm not following this argument... An authentic asshole, who doesn't try to filter his public behavior or reactions like an adult but instead flys off the handle with sweaty red faced tantrums at every offense, who hurls playground insults and publically bullies any and all opponents, is someone who reflects well on our country? A president who publically questions who is a bigger enemy of the United States, a communist adversary or the President of the Fed? A man who takes the word of Russia over his own intelligence community? The tone and demeanor of Donald Trump is a stain on the executive branch. I am no fan of race baiting identity politics in the Democratic party or even many of their policies but Trump is an awful leader and a corrupt narrcistic megalomaniac. He has all the qualities of a banana republic dictator. I cannot understand how this is not painfully obvious.
Different people want different things from their “leaders”. I have to put leaders in quotes because given their performance, I often question why we use that term to describe politicians.

Anyway, for me it’s about style vs substance. I prefer and expect officials at every level to put their constituents first and fight for them when it’s required. Sometimes the right people for that job come with flaws that have to be tolerated or overlooked. I am much more willing to put up with Trump’s antics than to allow yet another phony “kinder, gentler” politician to give us “all the feels” while secretly selling the country out in a multitude of ways.

Many people voted for Trump in order to throw a bomb into the swamp and see what happens. Although a thorough draining is unrealistic, you have to start somewhere and it’s worth a shot. Maybe it’ll all go to hell in a hand basket, who knows. But it’s clear that many of the most dire predictions about Trump simply have not come true.

Some people will never get over the style issues, and that’s fine. But when you cannot understand how things are not painfully obvious to others, you have to consider that they may be using different criteria by which to judge.

Besides setting policy the president is also the figurehead of the nation and as such is supposed to at least embody certain ideals or characteristics that constitute decency, morality, bravery. Trump is no leader to admire. Besides obstruction of justice...(trying to fire Robert Mueller) and collusion with foreign governments to influence elections as well as having his mental stability and capacity routinely questioned by those who have worked in proximity to him... he is a giant manbaby who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. He is a whiner who screams about how unfair everything is, yet fails to recognize that the silver spoon he was born with wasn't fair either. This is the type of leader who is going to make America great again? A pouty, overly sensitive, whiny manchild? The prostitutes and hush money, the shady business dealings. Speaking of substance, look up his history with Deutsche Bank...shocking. not exactly the operations of a normal functioning business....more like weird shady bilking of investors and manipulation of a corrupt banking entity. I have worked with contractors and construction workers who years ago did construction for Trump and had nothing but negative things to say about him. How he wouldn't pay them for work they did. How he would come in after work was done and offer them half of what he had agreed to and then tie them up with legal threats. How is that substance? That's smoke and mirrors. The guy is a scumbag, not a leader, not a business icon. I'm not saying that politicians as a whole aren't corrupt and shady, although there are many decent ones, I'm saying that Trump embodies all the greed, corruption, narcism, and selfishness that I think will eventually crush our republic. While Bush or Obama might not be icons themselves I at least had respect for them as humans, whereas I wouldn't want to spend five minutes in a room together with Trump. Now, I do agree with many of his policies however the way in which he is attempting to implement and deliver them is tearing our nation apart. I'm no fan of illegal imigration for example but to package that issue as one which demonizes immigrants as dangerous rapists sets a tone that then leads to a certain paranoia and rage among people that can end in tragedy. He ratchets up the fear and anger because he himself is not a gounded well adjusted human. He has all the same personality characteristics of a Saddam Hussein or Fidel Castro except he is fortunately limited by the foresight of our founding fathers. You don't think he wouldnt carry through on his hintings to kill the whistle blower if his ability to do such weren't limited? Listen to the man he hides nothing, "in my great and unmatched wisdom"...this is exactly the leader that our founding fathers worried would one day come along and why they spent so much time drafting a constitution to protect us against them.
james-earl-jones-9357354-1-402.jpg
james-earl-jones-9357354-1-402.jpg (16.54 KiB) Viewed 8430 times
THIS IS CNN... is all I read..

I agree with flyingpylon "Some people will never get over the style issues, and that’s fine. But when you cannot understand how things are not painfully obvious to others, you have to consider that they may be using different criteria by which to judge."

The government is a corrupt criminal enterprise. including the intelligence agencies.
So tell me what Candidate will not fall in line with the exact same Corruption?
Last edited by shekels on Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:22 am

Doodle, breathe...!

I feel the same way. Then there are days I think everyone is out to get him, which is fine, but they have to do it in the most open and clear way possible, which they have not been and it frustrates me.

Democrats seem to have been shooting themselves in the foot with these investigations. Not that they don't have merit, but the way they are going about it leaves the door wide open to the fact/conclusion they aren't necessarily protecting the constitution but more just hate the guy and want to get him.

He unfortunately has no interest in unifying the country, and is happy to keep it well divided.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by dualstow » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:34 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
(Trump) has all the qualities of a banana republic dictator. I cannot understand how this is not painfully obvious.
There’s one important difference- banana republic dictators tend to steal from the country coffers. One could argue that the leader of a country like the U.S. doesn’t need to do that (true). And, one could mention that there are some financial shenanigans, lack of tax transparency, emoluments clause, etc (fair enough).

None of that changes the fact that Trump’s crazy Ivan approach, while unattractive, might be what we need to deal with countries like China. We’re going to need someone else in power, I believe, before things genuinely improve for a lot of the waitresses and farmers who voted Trump in. But, unlike a banana republic despot, I think this guy is actually good for the American economy and in a weird way, for foreign policy.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by moda0306 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:49 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:08 pm
The Democrat Congress and Presidential candidates seem to be doing everything in their power to alienate independents and even moderate Democrats.

If everything goes on as it is, Trump will win in a landslide and the Republicans will take back the House and keep the Senate.
What do you consider a "landslide?" There's little precedence for a President with approval ratings this low to win, much less in what could be considered a "landslide."

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/tr ... l-ratings/
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by jacksonm2 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:49 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:08 pm
The Democrat Congress and Presidential candidates seem to be doing everything in their power to alienate independents and even moderate Democrats.

If everything goes on as it is, Trump will win in a landslide and the Republicans will take back the House and keep the Senate.
The George McGovern/Richard Nixon precedent seems highly relevant here. Smelling blood in the water over the Vietnam War, "progressives" saw it as their chance to put a far left candidate in the white house. They failed miserably, of course.

No way to tell how this game is going to play out today and whether history will repeat itself. "Progressives" have been hard at work ever since and as far as I can tell so far they have made great strides in changing opinions, starting in the public schools where they have had almost complete control in indoctrinating the younger generations.

Although I tend to think Trump is going to win it wouldn't completely surprise me to find out, as progressives did on election night in 2015 when Trump won, that one of those far left candidates had won the white house.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:45 am

Lindsey Graham: A president who doesn't comply with Congressional requests for information is subject to impeachment.

Even formerly loyal members of his party are finding it increasingly difficult to support this guy. As I have said before there are aspects of Trump's policies that I see as beneficial, but the man is an incapable leader and an awful communicator not to mention a complete lowlife. In the words of Colin Powel he is a national disgrace. I'm really shocked how many intelligent people here are falling for this con man. A man whose ego is so big that he gets NOAA to alter the path of hurricanes impact in order to save him face after he mistakenly places Alabama in Dorians path. How is Swampthing going to drain the swamp?
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:52 am

jacksonm2 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:49 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:08 pm
The Democrat Congress and Presidential candidates seem to be doing everything in their power to alienate independents and even moderate Democrats.

If everything goes on as it is, Trump will win in a landslide and the Republicans will take back the House and keep the Senate.
The George McGovern/Richard Nixon precedent seems highly relevant here. Smelling blood in the water over the Vietnam War, "progressives" saw it as their chance to put a far left candidate in the white house. They failed miserably, of course.

No way to tell how this game is going to play out today and whether history will repeat itself. "Progressives" have been hard at work ever since and as far as I can tell so far they have made great strides in changing opinions, starting in the public schools where they have had almost complete control in indoctrinating the younger generations.

Although I tend to think Trump is going to win it wouldn't completely surprise me to find out, as progressives did on election night in 2015 when Trump won, that one of those far left candidates had won the white house.

Maybe the Nixon precedent applies to Trump's impeachment as well.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/it ... don-nixon/
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:56 am

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-ne ... mpeachment

Takes time for tide to turn.

The amount of impeachable illegal dirt on Trump is staggering. And they don't just flow out of the house of representatives...now the latest from Rex Tillerson. You know, that commie leftist social justice warrior who ran exxon mobil.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... oj-charges
Tillerson has said publicly that the president frequently asked him to do things that were illegal.

“So often, the president would say ‘Here’s what I want to do and here’s how I want to do it,’ and I would have to say to him, ‘Mr. President I understand what you want to do but you can’t do it that way,”’ Tillerson said in an on-stage interview with Bob Schieffer in Texas last year. “It violates the law, it violates treaty you know and he just, he got really frustrated when we’d have those conversations.”
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by shekels » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:27 am

doodle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:45 am
Lindsey Graham: A president who doesn't comply with Congressional requests for information is subject to impeachment.

Even formerly loyal members of his party are finding it increasingly difficult to support this guy. As I have said before there are aspects of Trump's policies that I see as beneficial, but the man is an incapable leader and an awful communicator not to mention a complete lowlife. In the words of Colin Powel he is a national disgrace. I'm really shocked how many intelligent people here are falling for this con man. A man whose ego is so big that he gets NOAA to alter the path of hurricanes impact in order to save him face after he mistakenly places Alabama in Dorians path. How is Swampthing going to drain the swamp?
It seems to me that you are putting forth a view that can be followed by half of the people.
But you are not going to convince the other half of the people.
Lindsey Graham and Colin Powell are big names in Politics, Yes I can name names also that are on Trumps side of this impeachment process and see it as a Kangaroo Court.
Nancy can have a House Vote but she has chosen not to Vote in the Impeachment matter. (WHY)?
Granted she does not have to Vote on impeachment but given previous impeachments this was the case.
I will let the courts decide.

Also having a Big ego does not prove you are wrong. One of the early computer Spaghetti Models had a track of the Hurricane going into the Gulf..
Now as I type this out I know it probably will not change your mind just like the other half of the people.

But I do wonder sometimes, What is inside people that would have them dislike Trump so strongly.

Just a FYI. I do NOT see Trump as a Republican. Republicans screwed the U.S. along with the Dems for years.
People were VERY tired of being Lied to by the Elites. This is just one reason Trump is President.
But it seems The Elites are still Lying to the people...
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:48 am

shekels wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:27 am
doodle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:45 am
Lindsey Graham: A president who doesn't comply with Congressional requests for information is subject to impeachment.

Even formerly loyal members of his party are finding it increasingly difficult to support this guy. As I have said before there are aspects of Trump's policies that I see as beneficial, but the man is an incapable leader and an awful communicator not to mention a complete lowlife. In the words of Colin Powel he is a national disgrace. I'm really shocked how many intelligent people here are falling for this con man. A man whose ego is so big that he gets NOAA to alter the path of hurricanes impact in order to save him face after he mistakenly places Alabama in Dorians path. How is Swampthing going to drain the swamp?
It seems to me that you are putting forth a view that can be followed by half of the people.
But you are not going to convince the other half of the people.
Lindsey Graham and Colin Powell are big names in Politics, Yes I can name names also that are on Trumps side of this impeachment process and see it as a Kangaroo Court.
Nancy can have a House Vote but she has chosen not to Vote in the Impeachment matter. (WHY)?
Granted she does not have to Vote on impeachment but given previous impeachments this was the case.
I will let the courts decide.

Also having a Big ego does not prove you are wrong. One of the early computer Spaghetti Models had a track of the Hurricane going into the Gulf..
Now as I type this out I know it probably will not change your mind just like the other half of the people.

But I do wonder sometimes, What is inside people that would have them dislike Trump so strongly.

Just a FYI. I do NOT see Trump as a Republican. Republicans screwed the U.S. along with the Dems for years.
People were VERY tired of being Lied to by the Elites. This is just one reason Trump is President.
But it seems The Elites are still Lying to the people...
I'm no fan of political elites, but Trump isnt the answer. He is a tantrum in human form. The man is a con artist. Have you spoken with people who have personally worked for him? I have worked with two and both said he was the biggest scumbag they ever dealt with and these were non political comments...he literally stiffed them for work they had done. Listen to members of his staff from Tillerson to Kelly...they basically say he is an imbecile. Look into his relationship with Deutsche Bank, how many investors he has bilked through lies and deception. The man has been involved in thousands of lawsuits. What exactly makes you think this man is going to clean up corruption? Seriously?
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by shekels » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:40 am

doodle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:48 am
shekels wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:27 am
doodle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:45 am
Lindsey Graham: A president who doesn't comply with Congressional requests for information is subject to impeachment.

Even formerly loyal members of his party are finding it increasingly difficult to support this guy. As I have said before there are aspects of Trump's policies that I see as beneficial, but the man is an incapable leader and an awful communicator not to mention a complete lowlife. In the words of Colin Powel he is a national disgrace. I'm really shocked how many intelligent people here are falling for this con man. A man whose ego is so big that he gets NOAA to alter the path of hurricanes impact in order to save him face after he mistakenly places Alabama in Dorians path. How is Swampthing going to drain the swamp?
It seems to me that you are putting forth a view that can be followed by half of the people.
But you are not going to convince the other half of the people.
Lindsey Graham and Colin Powell are big names in Politics, Yes I can name names also that are on Trumps side of this impeachment process and see it as a Kangaroo Court.
Nancy can have a House Vote but she has chosen not to Vote in the Impeachment matter. (WHY)?
Granted she does not have to Vote on impeachment but given previous impeachments this was the case.
I will let the courts decide.

Also having a Big ego does not prove you are wrong. One of the early computer Spaghetti Models had a track of the Hurricane going into the Gulf..
Now as I type this out I know it probably will not change your mind just like the other half of the people.

But I do wonder sometimes, What is inside people that would have them dislike Trump so strongly.

Just a FYI. I do NOT see Trump as a Republican. Republicans screwed the U.S. along with the Dems for years.
People were VERY tired of being Lied to by the Elites. This is just one reason Trump is President.
But it seems The Elites are still Lying to the people...
I'm no fan of political elites, but Trump isnt the answer. He is a tantrum in human form. The man is a con artist. Have you spoken with people who have personally worked for him? I have worked with two and both said he was the biggest scumbag they ever dealt with and these were non political comments...he literally stiffed them for work they had done. Listen to members of his staff from Tillerson to Kelly...they basically say he is an imbecile. Look into his relationship with Deutsche Bank, how many investors he has bilked through lies and deception. The man has been involved in thousands of lawsuits. What exactly makes you think this man is going to clean up corruption? Seriously?
I Don't see Trump cleaning up Corruption... It goes to deep..
But would the people have seen the amount of Corruption that has been exposed so far in the Government, with any other candidate?
Again you present Political/Business people that don't like him. Just as other Political/Business people do like him.

Edit. I bring up Political/Business peoples opinions as just that, opinions.
People I don't know and trust. They have agendas just like Elites and why should I believe what they are saying.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:00 am

shekels wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:40 am
doodle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:48 am
shekels wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:27 am


It seems to me that you are putting forth a view that can be followed by half of the people.
But you are not going to convince the other half of the people.
Lindsey Graham and Colin Powell are big names in Politics, Yes I can name names also that are on Trumps side of this impeachment process and see it as a Kangaroo Court.
Nancy can have a House Vote but she has chosen not to Vote in the Impeachment matter. (WHY)?
Granted she does not have to Vote on impeachment but given previous impeachments this was the case.
I will let the courts decide.

Also having a Big ego does not prove you are wrong. One of the early computer Spaghetti Models had a track of the Hurricane going into the Gulf..
Now as I type this out I know it probably will not change your mind just like the other half of the people.

But I do wonder sometimes, What is inside people that would have them dislike Trump so strongly.

Just a FYI. I do NOT see Trump as a Republican. Republicans screwed the U.S. along with the Dems for years.
People were VERY tired of being Lied to by the Elites. This is just one reason Trump is President.
But it seems The Elites are still Lying to the people...
I'm no fan of political elites, but Trump isnt the answer. He is a tantrum in human form. The man is a con artist. Have you spoken with people who have personally worked for him? I have worked with two and both said he was the biggest scumbag they ever dealt with and these were non political comments...he literally stiffed them for work they had done. Listen to members of his staff from Tillerson to Kelly...they basically say he is an imbecile. Look into his relationship with Deutsche Bank, how many investors he has bilked through lies and deception. The man has been involved in thousands of lawsuits. What exactly makes you think this man is going to clean up corruption? Seriously?
I Don't see Trump cleaning up Corruption... It goes to deep..
But would the people have seen the amount of Corruption that has been exposed so far in the Government, with any other candidate?
Again you present Political/Business people that don't like him. Just as other Political/Business people do like him.

Edit. I bring up Political/Business peoples opinions as just that, opinions.
People I don't know and trust. They have agendas just like Elites and why should I believe what they are saying.
These aren't just any political / business people these are literally the people that he used to staff his administration who worked with Trump and to use the words of Don McGahn his former counsel, he has repeatedly asked them to do "crazy shit" and by crazy he means illegal. You think Trump has any regard for the rule of law? This isn't an us vs them issue. Democrats abuse power just as those across the aisle but Trump is in another league. I cannot understand how this is not completely obvious at this point. How many former staff members need to come out and say the guy is unhinged for Trump's faithful minions to come around to the facts?
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:20 am

TDS is a terrible affliction. I hope you sufferers get help soon or you will probably be suicidal when he is re-elected in a landslide next year.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by shekels » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:40 am

doodle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:00 am
shekels wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:40 am
doodle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:48 am


I'm no fan of political elites, but Trump isnt the answer. He is a tantrum in human form. The man is a con artist. Have you spoken with people who have personally worked for him? I have worked with two and both said he was the biggest scumbag they ever dealt with and these were non political comments...he literally stiffed them for work they had done. Listen to members of his staff from Tillerson to Kelly...they basically say he is an imbecile. Look into his relationship with Deutsche Bank, how many investors he has bilked through lies and deception. The man has been involved in thousands of lawsuits. What exactly makes you think this man is going to clean up corruption? Seriously?
I Don't see Trump cleaning up Corruption... It goes to deep..
But would the people have seen the amount of Corruption that has been exposed so far in the Government, with any other candidate?
Again you present Political/Business people that don't like him. Just as other Political/Business people do like him.

Edit. I bring up Political/Business peoples opinions as just that, opinions.
People I don't know and trust. They have agendas just like Elites and why should I believe what they are saying.
These aren't just any political / business people these are literally the people that he used to staff his administration who worked with Trump and to use the words of Don McGahn his former counsel, he has repeatedly asked them to do "crazy shit" and by crazy he means illegal. You think Trump has any regard for the rule of law? This isn't an us vs them issue. Democrats abuse power just as those across the aisle but Trump is in another league. I cannot understand how this is not completely obvious at this point. How many former staff members need to come out and say the guy is unhinged for Trump's faithful minions to come around to the facts?
Again, do you know these people.. Have you Talked to them.. Do you know if they have an AXE to grind..
Then I guess, Now you have decided to take that McGahn's opinion as a fact.
What about Bill Barr or Rudy Giuliani what are their opinions, and does it matter?
So Nancy can have a House Vote. but she has chosen not to Vote in the Impeachment matter. I again ask (WHY)?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:21 pm

All I wanted was a person who marginally improves the American condition, in whatever respects are important to you, and was someone who my kids and I could at least respect, if not look up to.

I think he's done some good things, but has failed on the debt, as it seems all presidents of either party fail. They all talk a good game before elected, then increase the debt with services or tax cuts or whatever.

On the second point he has been a disaster. If there truly are 30-40% of people out there who respect him, and are fine with the way he bullies and belittles people, and gives out middle school bully nicknames, I feel sorry for this country. He has done nothing to help unify the country. Democrats certainly have done nothing either.

They all suck (I think I ended a previous post with this as well) and we all deserve better, almost across the board.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:39 pm

I can understand someone who makes the argument that the ends justify the means when it comes to politics, but when it comes to Trump I'm not really sure what the end vision is. He is a horrible communicator, and his exaggeration which borders on ouright dishonesty makes me question even more what the truth is. If he can throw his weight around to influence NOAA scientists or pressure/bully the federal reserve who knows what to believe about any economic stats coming out of his executive departments. I'm no defender of the Democratic party...but it is so glaringly obvious how bad a leader he is that I frankly cannot understand how he still has 40 percent support. I started off as an optimist but his behavior has pushed me further and further away and I can no longer stomach his administration. I'm sorry shekels, when literally dozens of his staff come out and all say he is mentally unstable, (and then he tweets things about his great and unmatched wisdom....and talking about anihilitaing turkeys economy) it only provides first-hand evidence of how right they are. One doesn't even need to listen to others account of the man, just read his Twitter feed straight out of his mouth....if that isn't enough to convince you that he doesn't possess any leadership qualities much less a shred of dignity I don't know what will. At that point this becomes a religious debate and as he has said he could stand in fifth avenue and shoot someone and not lose any voters....yep, our president actually said that....I guess you count among those.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:23 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:21 pm
All I wanted... ...was someone who my kids and I could at least respect, if not look up to.
I'll admit I'm highly cynical, but this is where I think many people are simply expecting too much.

I also question how much respect and reverence of previous presidents and other officials is the result of subsequent myth-making vs reality.
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by shekels » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:34 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:21 pm
All I wanted was a person who marginally improves the American condition, in whatever respects are important to you, and was someone who my kids and I could at least respect, if not look up to.

I think he's done some good things, but has failed on the debt, as it seems all presidents of either party fail. They all talk a good game before elected, then increase the debt with services or tax cuts or whatever.

On the second point he has been a disaster. If there truly are 30-40% of people out there who respect him, and are fine with the way he bullies and belittles people, and gives out middle school bully nicknames, I feel sorry for this country. He has done nothing to help unify the country. Democrats certainly have done nothing either.

They all suck (I think I ended a previous post with this as well) and we all deserve better, almost across the board.
I agree that the citizens deserve better.
But as the majority of citizens are expecting something for nothing, and voting for who promises them more
the Debt will keep rising.
As the citizens vote to raise their living standards,and who gives them the best deals
there will be Government there to provide.
So who is their right mind would want to be President that has the respect of the people? :D
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by shekels » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:40 pm

doodle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:39 pm
I can understand someone who makes the argument that the ends justify the means when it comes to politics, but when it comes to Trump I'm not really sure what the end vision is. He is a horrible communicator, and his exaggeration which borders on ouright dishonesty makes me question even more what the truth is. If he can throw his weight around to influence NOAA scientists or pressure/bully the federal reserve who knows what to believe about any economic stats coming out of his executive departments. I'm no defender of the Democratic party...but it is so glaringly obvious how bad a leader he is that I frankly cannot understand how he still has 40 percent support. I started off as an optimist but his behavior has pushed me further and further away and I can no longer stomach his administration. I'm sorry shekels, when literally dozens of his staff come out and all say he is mentally unstable, (and then he tweets things about his great and unmatched wisdom....and talking about anihilitaing turkeys economy) it only provides first-hand evidence of how right they are. One doesn't even need to listen to others account of the man, just read his Twitter feed straight out of his mouth....if that isn't enough to convince you that he doesn't possess any leadership qualities much less a shred of dignity I don't know what will. At that point this becomes a religious debate and as he has said he could stand in fifth avenue and shoot someone and not lose any voters....yep, our president actually said that....I guess you count among those.
I know what Trump said. But obviously you are not listening.
So Nancy can have a House Vote. but she has chosen not to Vote in the Impeachment matter. I ask again (WHY)?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Will Trump be Re-elected?

Post by doodle » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:53 pm

shekels wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:40 pm
doodle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:39 pm
I can understand someone who makes the argument that the ends justify the means when it comes to politics, but when it comes to Trump I'm not really sure what the end vision is. He is a horrible communicator, and his exaggeration which borders on ouright dishonesty makes me question even more what the truth is. If he can throw his weight around to influence NOAA scientists or pressure/bully the federal reserve who knows what to believe about any economic stats coming out of his executive departments. I'm no defender of the Democratic party...but it is so glaringly obvious how bad a leader he is that I frankly cannot understand how he still has 40 percent support. I started off as an optimist but his behavior has pushed me further and further away and I can no longer stomach his administration. I'm sorry shekels, when literally dozens of his staff come out and all say he is mentally unstable, (and then he tweets things about his great and unmatched wisdom....and talking about anihilitaing turkeys economy) it only provides first-hand evidence of how right they are. One doesn't even need to listen to others account of the man, just read his Twitter feed straight out of his mouth....if that isn't enough to convince you that he doesn't possess any leadership qualities much less a shred of dignity I don't know what will. At that point this becomes a religious debate and as he has said he could stand in fifth avenue and shoot someone and not lose any voters....yep, our president actually said that....I guess you count among those.
I know what Trump said. But obviously you are not listening.
So Nancy can have a House Vote. but she has chosen not to Vote in the Impeachment matter. I ask again (WHY)?
I can't channel the inner thoughts of Nancy Pelosi but I imagine they feel there is a lot more evidence to be gathered. The administration is stonewalling the process to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if some members of administration are found to be in contempt ...like Mike Pompeo who thinks he can just ignore house oversight committees. The Watergate scandal played out over the course of a year, this might take a while.
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