Evolution discussion

[Mountaineer]

Well that's really the big question, isn't it?

I would humbly suggest that a 29-year old startup entrepreneur may not be the most representative individual. Certainly some people would be like him, and Mr Money Mustache, and ERE Jacob, but how many people really would just sit on their asses and do nothing? Determining that proportion, or perhaps somehow being able to accurately model a person's relative propensity to do nothing useful with their lives would be a useful addition, I think.

How many people are doing something "useful" now?  What is the definition of useful?  Who decides what is useful?

It seems funny to me that, on the one hand, Americans devote so much time to making their lives easier, and yet, if we see people utilizing the existence of ease, we vilify them for it.

"progress" is another one of those nonsense words like "useful" that people like to throw around. This is what "useful"' and "progress" looks like to me.....causing this:



So that we can have this:



Millions of people slaving away destroying rainforest and some of the worlds most amazing creatures so that Mr. Chanel can get the ingredients he needs to sell us this stupid stuff to smear on our lips.

Thank God that I'm not an ape and did not descend from one.  Thank God that I am a human selected to have dominion over His creation and that He teaches me to have stewardship over His creation.  Thank God I understand God's will for how we should live.

... Mountaineer

[doodle]

Mountaineer,

You are a total schmuck....and an idiot to boot. Keep burying your head in that stupid book of yours....

[Mountaineer]

Mountaineer,

You are a total schmuck....and an idiot to boot. Keep burying your head in that stupid book of yours....

I forgive you for saying that because it really is the truth even though I suspect you intended it as a personal attack (words of truth in love from one schmuck to another).  You are starting to get the message ... we are all sinners (schmucks) desperately in need of a Savior. 

... Mountaineer

[l82start]

lets be civil http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... ivil-6079/

[doodle]

There is a joke from Bill Hicks that you just reminded me of...

A fundamentalist Christian says to Bill, "I believe God created me in one day"

Bill responds, "looks like he rushed it."

If humans are the best that God can do, then what a sorry creator we have....

Don't read this btw, it will just contradict everything in your book...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality

Sorry for my lack of decorum, I can't suffer a fool

[Mountaineer]

Mountaineer,

You are a total schmuck....and an idiot to boot. Keep burying your head in that stupid book of yours....

Moderators,

If you are reading this thread, please to not call out doodle for violating the "let's keep it civil" guideline.  I forgave him for the attack on me, and it is between doodle and God for the attack on Him and His Word.  Seriously.  I indeed probably provoked doodle because I gather from his posts that my post re. evolution and stewardship and dominion were probably perceived as attacking a couple of his sacred cows.  I know I may have provided the stimulus, and doodle reacted.  I really doubt he intended it in a mean spirited way.  So, I'm doing my best to be tolerant of intollerant behavior.  Done as far as I'm concerned.

... Mountaineer 

[doodle]

God must have run out of design templates when he got to us...

[doodle]

Mountaineer,

You are a total schmuck....and an idiot to boot. Keep burying your head in that stupid book of yours....

Moderators,

If you are reading this thread, please to not call out doodle for violating the "let's keep it civil" guideline.  I forgave him for the attack on me, and it is between doodle and God for the attack on Him and His Word.  Seriously.  I indeed probably provoked doodle because I gather from his posts that my post re. evolution and stewardship and dominion were probably perceived as attacking a couple of his sacred cows.  I know I may have provided the stimulus, and doodle reacted.  I really doubt he intended it in a mean spirited way.  So, I'm doing my best to be tolerant of intollerant behavior.  Done as far as I'm concerned.

... Mountaineer 

Well, if you are able to forgive me then certainly the all loving god that created me can....

[clacy]

doodle, you have some very bizarre opinions yourself, so please keep it civil.

[Kshartle]

God must have run out of design templates when he got to us...

It's easier to tweak than re-design.

[kka]

There is a joke from Bill Hicks that you just reminded me of...

A fundamentalist Christian says to Bill, "I believe God created me in one day"

Bill responds, "looks like he rushed it."

If humans are the best that God can do, then what a sorry creator we have....

Don't read this btw, it will just contradict everything in your book...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality

Sorry for my lack of decorum, I can't suffer a fool

The design of life is unimaginably more complex than anything humans can engineer.
http://dandydesigns.org/id57.html

Wikipedia is hopelessly outdated.
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/07/ve ... 62281.html

'Only a handful of alleged vestigial organs remains from Wiedersheim's original list, and each of those is questionable. Recently Darwinians made the same kind of mistake with their myth of "junk DNA".'

[doodle]

There is a joke from Bill Hicks that you just reminded me of...

A fundamentalist Christian says to Bill, "I believe God created me in one day"

Bill responds, "looks like he rushed it."

If humans are the best that God can do, then what a sorry creator we have....

Don't read this btw, it will just contradict everything in your book...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality

Sorry for my lack of decorum, I can't suffer a fool

The design of life is unimaginably more complex than anything humans can engineer.
http://dandydesigns.org/id57.html

Wikipedia is hopelessly outdated.
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/07/ve ... 62281.html

'Only a handful of alleged vestigial organs remains from Wiedersheim's original list, and each of those is questionable. Recently Darwinians made the same kind of mistake with their myth of "junk DNA".'

Who said humans designed humans? There is a ton of weird vestigial parts of our body from the appendix to the coccyx to a third eyelid...

Look at that picture of dog and man or any other mammal....you really don't think we have the same evolutionary lineage? How a reasonably intelligent person can look at the evidence in the world around them and then choose to believe some miraculous story of creation written in a book for which not a shred of evidence exists is beyond me.

[doodle]

And what about all the other human species that went extinct? Was god just testing out a variety of prototypes?

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-13874671

[moda0306]

Mountaineer,

Do you not believe we evolved from apes?

How do you explain the skulls they've found of creatures that look like a progression from ape to human?

[doodle]

I'm open to the idea of creationism if someone can present some scientific evidence for it. Frankly argument from incredulity doesn't work for me nor does the miraculous explanation given in some thousand year old text that also tells us to stone people to death as a form of justice. The fact is that an unbiased mind looking at the evidence cannot help bit conclude that evolution is by far the most plausible explanation for how humans got here.

[Mountaineer]

Mountaineer,

Do you not believe we evolved from apes?

How do you explain the skulls they've found of creatures that look like a progression from ape to human?

I do not believe we evolved from apes.  I do believe in a God that is powerful enough to create the universe and everything in it.  I believe in micro evolution, not macro, and do not believe that one species can or did change into another.  I believe in the God that is smart enough and powerful enough to create the universe, and that he can certainly create the earth in its present form, complete with bones, canyons, and mountains.  I also believe in original sin and the subsequent curse.  Death entered the world at the time of curse.  Who knows how long Adam and Eve and all the other life forms lived prior to the curse.  When everything was cursed, all the methods used to determine how old something is was also cursed and their reliability is suspect.  But, in the big scheme of things, how old the earth is is irrelevant, interesting to speculate about, but irrelevant.  God has always existed, before he created time, before he created the heavens and the earth, and before he created us.  Can I prove this?  No, but the evidence for my story is better than the evidence for macro evolution.  I read the story doodle posted from the BBC and just laughed.  Man trys so very hard to be his own god it almost isn't even funny, man can be the ultimate denier
... and at the same time does not even recognize that he is worshiping that god of his own making.  But, we have been through this several times already in this thread (edit: the religion thread).  It is either that we forget because the thread is so long, or we deny because we don't like what we hear - probably a bit of both. 

Blessings,

... Mountaineer

edited to refer to the religion thread

[Kshartle]

The fact is that an unbiased mind looking at the evidence cannot help bit conclude that evolution is by far the most plausible explanation for how humans got here.

That fact is that's your opinion.

Bwahahahahahaha

How did life even start? If we don't possess the technology to take the so-called building blocks of life and create even the simplest single-celled living creatures, well I'd say there is room for "unbiased" debate as to our origin.

I think it's pretty far-fetched to think the human brain evolved out of start dust.

For the record that last statement of mine is known as the argument from personal astonishment. Basically since I can't beleive it's true it must not be. - Now this is a false argument, but generally regarded as a complete checkmate, slam dunk, rock solid evidence of anything here. 

[moda0306]

The fact is that an unbiased mind looking at the evidence cannot help bit conclude that evolution is by far the most plausible explanation for how humans got here.

That fact is that's your opinion.

Bwahahahahahaha

How did life even start? If we don't possess the technology to take the so-called building blocks of life and create even the simplest single-celled living creatures, well I'd say there is room for "unbiased" debate as to our origin.

I think it's pretty far-fetched to think the human brain evolved out of start dust.

For the record that last statement of mine is known as the argument from personal astonishment. Basically since I can't beleive it's true it must not be. - Now this is a false argument, but generally regarded as a complete checkmate, slam dunk, rock solid evidence of anything here. 

Nothing can be as "slam dunk" as taking 20 premises over dozens of pages to prove something that should just be so simple and obvious to everyone .

[doodle]

The fact is that an unbiased mind looking at the evidence cannot help bit conclude that evolution is by far the most plausible explanation for how humans got here.

That fact is that's your opinion.

Bwahahahahahaha

How did life even start? If we don't possess the technology to take the so-called building blocks of life and create even the simplest single-celled living creatures, well I'd say there is room for "unbiased" debate as to our origin.

I think it's pretty far-fetched to think the human brain evolved out of start dust.

For the record that last statement of mine is known as the argument from personal astonishment. Basically since I can't beleive it's true it must not be. - Now this is a false argument, but generally regarded as a complete checkmate, slam dunk, rock solid evidence of anything here. 

Exactly.....Argument from incredulity...logical fallacy.

We know that species went through transitions...there is a fossil record of this (even though creationists try to argue it doesn't exist.....sea to land, reptile to bird (or vice versa), ape to man...

Life is certainly weird, but that fact doesn't imply a creator. In a material sense you are made out of the same stuff as your surroundings. Nothing in your body doesn't already exist in the environment. As far as your "soul" well....why don't you just lay it out on the table for us to examine? Show me some proof for it please.

Look at particle behavior in quantum physics....it is very very strange....you could argue that subatomic particles have "awareness" .....again, very strange but I don't see how it follows logically that there must be a creator much less one that gives two shits about us. After all, 99.9 percent of all species that ever existed on this planet are now extinct and thousands more go extinct every year. One day it'll probably be our time as well...

[Kshartle]

The fact is that an unbiased mind looking at the evidence cannot help bit conclude that evolution is by far the most plausible explanation for how humans got here.

That fact is that's your opinion.

Bwahahahahahaha

How did life even start? If we don't possess the technology to take the so-called building blocks of life and create even the simplest single-celled living creatures, well I'd say there is room for "unbiased" debate as to our origin.

I think it's pretty far-fetched to think the human brain evolved out of start dust.

For the record that last statement of mine is known as the argument from personal astonishment. Basically since I can't beleive it's true it must not be. - Now this is a false argument, but generally regarded as a complete checkmate, slam dunk, rock solid evidence of anything here. 

Nothing can be as "slam dunk" as taking 20 premises over dozens of pages to prove something that should just be so simple and obvious to everyone .

Consider the audience. It took 10 pages to get most people to agree that they themselves exist.

[doodle]

That fact is that's your opinion.

Bwahahahahahaha

How did life even start? If we don't possess the technology to take the so-called building blocks of life and create even the simplest single-celled living creatures, well I'd say there is room for "unbiased" debate as to our origin.

I think it's pretty far-fetched to think the human brain evolved out of start dust.

For the record that last statement of mine is known as the argument from personal astonishment. Basically since I can't beleive it's true it must not be. - Now this is a false argument, but generally regarded as a complete checkmate, slam dunk, rock solid evidence of anything here. 

Nothing can be as "slam dunk" as taking 20 premises over dozens of pages to prove something that should just be so simple and obvious to everyone .

Consider the audience. It took 10 pages to get most people to agree that they themselves exist.

That is still undetermined! There is plenty of evidence that we are simply simulations...

[Kshartle]

Nothing can be as "slam dunk" as taking 20 premises over dozens of pages to prove something that should just be so simple and obvious to everyone .

Consider the audience. It took 10 pages to get most people to agree that they themselves exist.

That is still undetermined! There is plenty of evidence that we are simply simulations...

 

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/0 ... -universe/
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2010/1 ... d-reality/

I rarely post articles. These are short and pretty brilliant I think.

[Mountaineer]

The fact is that an unbiased mind looking at the evidence cannot help bit conclude that evolution is by far the most plausible explanation for how humans got here.

That fact is that's your opinion.

Bwahahahahahaha

How did life even start? If we don't possess the technology to take the so-called building blocks of life and create even the simplest single-celled living creatures, well I'd say there is room for "unbiased" debate as to our origin.

I think it's pretty far-fetched to think the human brain evolved out of start dust.

For the record that last statement of mine is known as the argument from personal astonishment. Basically since I can't beleive it's true it must not be. - Now this is a false argument, but generally regarded as a complete checkmate, slam dunk, rock solid evidence of anything here. 

Exactly.....Argument from incredulity...logical fallacy.

We know ["we" do?] that species went through transitions...there is a fossil record of this (even though creationists try to argue it doesn't exist.....sea to land, reptile to bird (or vice versa), ape to man... [did you bother to read my post]

Life is certainly weird, but that fact doesn't imply a creator [riiiiigggghhhhhtttttt]. In a material sense you are made out of the same stuff as your surroundings [so, your point?]. Nothing in your body doesn't already exist in the environment. As far as your "soul" well....why don't you just lay it out on the table for us to examine? Show me some proof for it please [a human body one micro second before death compared to a human body one micro second after death - nothing material changed].

Look at particle behavior in quantum physics....it is very very strange....you could argue [but you would be wrong, just my opinion] that subatomic particles have "awareness" .....again, very strange but I don't see how it follows logically that there must be a creator much less one that gives two shits about us. After all, 99.9 percent of all species that ever existed on this planet are now extinct and thousands more go extinct every year. One day it'll probably be our time as well... [most assuredly on that, I'm ready now, are you?]

... Mountaineer

[doodle]

Consider the audience. It took 10 pages to get most people to agree that they themselves exist.

That is still undetermined! There is plenty of evidence that we are simply simulations...

 

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/0 ... -universe/
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2010/1 ... d-reality/

I rarely post articles. These are short and pretty brilliant I think.

Weird, but true...

I actually invoke a form of this argument when I tell people why I don't like to travel much anymore. Physically transporting my carcass to a place seems so inefficient when all my experience happens in my mind anyways. My senses are just inputs channels that take data to my mind.  Through proper visualization and some good pictures and videos as stimulus I am able to almost get the full experience of travel without leaving my couch.....don't ask me what this implies for my ideas on sex.....hahaha!

[moda0306]

Mountaineer,

You are claiming that there is more reliable evidence that your brand of. Christianity is true than macro evolution?

Do you think that the skills that imply that you are wrong are creations God just put in the earth? It sounds like this is what you're saying.


Also, the human brain, a millisecond after death, is materially different.  Sort of like a cleared hard drive is materially different than a full one.