This is an openly religious topic, so I would think that those of you have felt stifled in expressing your religious opinions on the forum lately should feel free to chime in however you like....
Having spent time among folks like this in my younger years I don't think it is a caricature of the Cruz clan at all, but how they really think...
Rafael Cruz's outlook on the world is exceedingly narrow and unforgiving. The only righteous Christian is the evangelical Christian who is "biblically correct." These Christians must conquer the political world—vanquish those who are in league with Satan—and establish dominion over society by ruling in accordance with their definition of the word of God. And Ted Cruz was directly given the green light from God, via Heidi Cruz, to lead what is, in essence, a crusade to smite wickedness. (At a gathering of evangelicals in Iowa in 2013, Ted and Rafael Cruz joined in prayer with a pastor who said that "every tongue that rises up against [Ted Cruz] in judgment will be condemned.")
Last edited by curlew on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What does this mean: "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's"?
I am a born-again Christian, having received the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues just like in the Bible. I have no interest in getting involved in politics, because it's just a distraction from what is really important. If I voted, which I don't, I would vote for Kasich, Trump, Sanders, or Clinton (probably in that order), and never even consider voting for Cruz.
The elder Cruz is widely regarded as a Dominionist (see... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology). Most orthodox (and Orthodox) Christians consider that to be a pretty weird heresy.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
Ad Orientem wrote:
The elder Cruz is widely regarded as a Dominionist (see... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology). Most orthodox (and Orthodox) Christians consider that to be a pretty weird heresy.
Like the Puritans, it must be why the Cruz Clan left Cuba and Canada for the good ol' USA. We tolerate heretic religious weirdos here, unless they're violent.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Ad Orientem wrote:
The elder Cruz is widely regarded as a Dominionist (see... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology). Most orthodox (and Orthodox) Christians consider that to be a pretty weird heresy.
Like the Puritans, it must be why the Cruz Clan left Cuba and Canada for the good ol' USA. We tolerate heretic religious weirdos here, unless they're violent.
Yes, we do. But that doesn't mean I am going to help vote one into the presidency. There's socially harmless heretics (think the Shakers) and there are the really creepy kind (think Scientology). Cruz senior may not be that bad. But he is creepy.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
Ad Orientem wrote:
The elder Cruz is widely regarded as a Dominionist (see... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology). Most orthodox (and Orthodox) Christians consider that to be a pretty weird heresy.
Christianity is about freely coming to God/Jesus. If you have it being a political movement and using force to get your way, that ruins the act of freely coming to Jesus out of love.
I've always thought that regardless how wacko someones religion seems to be to me (from extremely judgemental to worship of self or atheism), it is better to speak the truth, why you hold that truth, why it gives you hope, do it with kindness, and show there is a better way rather than to condemn their current beliefs with harsh words and unkind labelings. As my grandmother said, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
... M
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3
stuper1 wrote:
What does this mean: "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's"?
I am a born-again Christian, having received the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues just like in the Bible. I have no interest in getting involved in politics, because it's just a distraction from what is really important. If I voted, which I don't, I would vote for Kasich, Trump, Sanders, or Clinton (probably in that order), and never even consider voting for Cruz.
As I alluded to in my OP, when I was a Christian I was of the Pentecostal type. Speaking and singing in tongues along with prophecy and belief in divine healing were part of the package. This type of "wacko" religion represents a bigger slice of Christianity than most people realize. Funny thing is I always felt like we were closer to what the original first-century church was like than other Christian churches and I still believe that is probably true.
I also understand how very easy it is to convince yourself that God told you something, like Cruz's wife did. I suspect he also got "confirmation" of the divine will from other sources.
Mountaineer wrote:
I've always thought that regardless how wacko someones religion seems to be to me (from extremely judgemental to worship of self or atheism), it is better to speak the truth, why you hold that truth, why it gives you hope, do it with kindness, and show there is a better way rather than to condemn their current beliefs with harsh words and unkind labelings. As my grandmother said, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
... M
I'm guessing this comment was directed at me. I was simply pointing out that Islam gets slammed an awful lot around here [perhaps with good reason], but that at times, certain facets of Christianity aren't that far off on the spectrum of extremeness.
Pugchief, my comments were not directed at anyone specifically, including not at you. It is just my opinion and what I think is in harmony with God's Word and His desire for how we are to live and treat those we come in contact with. I appologize if you think I made those comments in reference to you and were somehow trying to stick it to you (that would be 180 degrees away from what I was saying and would be vinegar, not the honey I was professing). As I said, I think you have the right to make whatever case you think is true, and based on whatever you think is the source of that truth; it is up to those to whom you are selling your view to decide if yours points to a better way and inspires hope and joy. I also think it is not up to me whether anyone believes what I say is truth; that is way above my paygrade to nurture those seeds, that is God's work.
... M
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3
A paper giving the LCMS perspective of Dominionism. It's only a few pages and is an interesting read. At least I think so, but then I might be a little weird. https://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=3788
I think this thread is talking about two different kinds of wackos, and it might be helpful to differentiate them (although several commenters have already touched on several of these points):
1. The first wacko believes in a living God who works actively in people's lives, even today in the 21st century. This type of wacko believes that it is really possible to have a personal relationship with God, and that such a relationship can be the foundation of an awesome life. You might find that such a wacko makes a pretty good next-door neighbor, especially if you have any sort of spiritual interest, but even if not, the wacko will treat you well and lend you some tools if you need them, although you may have to put up with the outrage of having him try a few times to see if you have any spiritual interest to awaken. This first type of wacko has very little to no interest in politics, recognizing that it's largely a waste of time (especially as compared to other possible uses of time) and mainly just a bunch of power-hungry egotists trying to fulfill their ambition.
2. The second wacko probably seems a lot like the first wacko outwardly, but a big difference is in their view on politics, believing that God calls them to be involved in the political systems of this world. This is the type of wacko you want to watch out for, including people like Ted Cruz and some Islamic fundamentalists. Another difference, which would show up if you dig into the belief system of many in this group, is that it's not so much about being in a relationship with a living God that works miraculously in their lives, as it is about religiously following a laundry list of Old Testament style rules.
For those who are interested in Christianity, the teachings of Jesus are pretty clear on which type of wacko He is looking to be associated with.
You could borrow my power washer if you lived nearby. Heck, you could have it; I no longer have a use for it (bought it to strip stucco off a wall at 1,500 PSI).
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
It's yours if you visit before I get off my butt and list it on Craigslist. I just had a burst of disgust with my possessions and sold a bunch of things last week so the risk right now is low, but who knows when the next episode will strike?
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
There's a sharing site for that already. Can't remember then name, but Google it.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes
Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet. I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
