Republican Debate Post-Game

[Pointedstick]

Well I hope ya caught tonight's debate because Trump and Paul were the only ones making any sense at all on foreign policy. They were the only ones not interested in re-invading Iraq or imposing no-fly zones on areas where the Russian air force has been invited to operate.

[moda0306]

Well I hope ya caught tonight's debate because Trump and Paul were the only ones making any sense at all on foreign policy. They were the only ones not interested in re-invading Iraq or imposing no-fly zones on areas where the Russian air force has been invited to operate.

As I've pointed out before, Trump has stated himself that he not only wants to invade Iraq, but set up the military in a ring around the oil and have Exxon go pump it out.  I know this sounds a bit ridiculous. His words... not mine.  He's also extremely hawkish against ISIS.  From what I've seen, anyway.

EDIT:

I guess he did say he'd stay out in the debates tonight.  Good for him.  I still want to see more of his national security ideas fleshed out.

[MediumTex]

Well I hope ya caught tonight's debate because Trump and Paul were the only ones making any sense at all on foreign policy. They were the only ones not interested in re-invading Iraq or imposing no-fly zones on areas where the Russian air force has been invited to operate.

I thought Kasich's smaller no fly zones on the borders with Turkey and Jordan made sense, especially as part of a larger plan to create safe zones along parts of the border regions for refugees to wait things out.

Kasich seemed to clearly acknowledge, though, that any no fly zone that involved shooting at Russian planes was a nonstarter.

Anybody else starting to like Kasich, or am I the only one?

[moda0306]

Well I hope ya caught tonight's debate because Trump and Paul were the only ones making any sense at all on foreign policy. They were the only ones not interested in re-invading Iraq or imposing no-fly zones on areas where the Russian air force has been invited to operate.

I thought Kasich's smaller no fly zones on the borders with Turkey and Jordan made sense, especially as part of a larger plan to create safe zones along parts of the border regions for refugees to wait things out.

Kasich seemed to clearly acknowledge, though, that any no fly zone that involved shooting at Russian planes was a nonstarter.

Anybody else starting to like Kasich, or am I the only one?

Easily my favorite non-Rand candidate.

[lazyboy]

Kasich seems to be the least attacking, bombastic or defensive and has rational/sensible policy related things to say. Unfortunately, for these same reasons, he's doesn't seem likely to get nominated.


  Struggling Sonetist 116:
"Let me not in the marriage of glass, water and air
  Admit sediments"

[Pointedstick]

Well I hope ya caught tonight's debate because Trump and Paul were the only ones making any sense at all on foreign policy. They were the only ones not interested in re-invading Iraq or imposing no-fly zones on areas where the Russian air force has been invited to operate.

I thought Kasich's smaller no fly zones on the borders with Turkey and Jordan made sense, especially as part of a larger plan to create safe zones along parts of the border regions for refugees to wait things out.

Kasich seemed to clearly acknowledge, though, that any no fly zone that involved shooting at Russian planes was a nonstarter.

Anybody else starting to like Kasich, or am I the only one?

No, I don't like him at all. Politically, he seems completely out of step with his party and last night's debate revealed that he's a total RINO, repeatedly chastising the other candidates for putting ideology over practicality--of course his idea of "practicality" looked an awful lot like the Democratic mainstream to me.

On a personal level I don't like him either. He seems volatile and explosive, full of barely contained rage. Does not seem to be in control of his emotions at all, and bad at reading a room. God booed when trapped by Ted Cruz on the bank bailout question (Uh, has he not heard about the FDIC?). Not at all an appealing guy to me. Sort of the Jim Webb of his side, really. I wonder how long he'll last.

A no fly zone that does not actually involve shooting at some of the people who would be flying in them is toothless and just makes you look stupid and weak. This concept of no fly zones in Syria is a disaster waiting to happen. I have yet to see anyone explain to me what the upside to the United States is for this pointless and belligerent idea.

[MediumTex]

Well I hope ya caught tonight's debate because Trump and Paul were the only ones making any sense at all on foreign policy. They were the only ones not interested in re-invading Iraq or imposing no-fly zones on areas where the Russian air force has been invited to operate.

I thought Kasich's smaller no fly zones on the borders with Turkey and Jordan made sense, especially as part of a larger plan to create safe zones along parts of the border regions for refugees to wait things out.

Kasich seemed to clearly acknowledge, though, that any no fly zone that involved shooting at Russian planes was a nonstarter.

Anybody else starting to like Kasich, or am I the only one?

No, I don't like him at all. Politically, he seems completely out of step with his party and last night's debate revealed that he's a total RINO, repeatedly chastising the other candidates for putting ideology over practicality--of course his idea of "practicality" looked an awful lot like the Democratic mainstream to me.

On a personal level I don't like him either. He seems volatile and explosive, full of barely contained rage. Does not seem to be in control of his emotions at all, and bad at reading a room. God booed when trapped by Ted Cruz on the bank bailout question (Uh, has he not heard about the FDIC?). Not at all an appealing guy to me. Sort of the Jim Webb of his side, really. I wonder how long he'll last.

A no fly zone that does not actually involve shooting at some of the people who would be flying in them is toothless and just makes you look stupid and weak. This concept of no fly zones in Syria is a disaster waiting to happen. I have yet to see anyone explain to me what the upside to the United States is for this pointless and belligerent idea.

I think that Kasich was just trying a last ditch effort to make the next cut, and the gamble simply didn't work.

As far as being a RINO, to me he has the strongest conservative credentials of anyone on the stage in that he has shown that he can actually balance a budget, he can actually cut spending, and he can actually be the chief executive who presides over a healthy economy (Ohio).  As far as the value of no-fly zones in Syria, I think that the value to the U.S. would be that it would provide a safe zone for refugees, which could potentially slow their flow into Europe and the rest of the world.

But all of that is academic because I don't think he pulled it off, and I think that will probably be his last debate among the frontrunners.

I also think that last night was probably it for Bush, Fiorina and Paul.  I think that it's a race among Trump, Rubio, Carson and Cruz from here on.

I thought the best line of the night was when Cruz said that if a bunch of low paid illegal alien journalists and investment bankers were coming across the border and taking jobs from U.S. citizens the media would be paying a lot more attention.  It's kind of an empty point, but it came across as sharp and funny.

[MediumTex]

Below are some good bits from the Daily Beast debate recap:

[quote]Donald Trump

Still gets most excited when he can talk about walls and winning.

Rand Paul ripped the China-bashing right out from under his feet, and it becomes more and more clear that Trump is less a gifted public speaker than a human beat-box, spitting out variations of the same sounds over and over when pressed.

***

Ben Carson

He was totally awake for a lot of it.

When he talked about the people who had died from drug overdoses during the time it took to have the debate, he resisted the urge to call them moral failures.

***

Marco Rubio

Teachers love this kid, always has his hand raised, very polite. When asked something he had a prepared answer for, called it “a good question,” a nice cue for those who have heard them before to take a little mental break. Smiles like Eddie Haskell, frowny-faces like someone who doesn’t want to go to bed yet.

Bravely tackled the huge philosopher glut in the current job market, endorsed welding instead, but what does that really mean? Lauded the growth of Candy Crush, which means I’m unfriending him immediately.

***

John Kasich

His hand gestures suggest debate coaching by Mr. Miyagi, his demeanor as well: Kasich doesn’t want to get the kids off his lawn, he just wants them to stand still and listen for minute, ok? If you’re gonna throw the football around, then you might as well do it right. Shush! Give it over here. Give it! This is not that hard! No, shhh, he’s talking.

***

Ted Cruz

Got tripped up naming the governmental departments he’d eliminate, naming Commerce twice, but seems at low risk for being Perry-ed because that’s just how much he hates the Commerce Department. Also, we were distracted from debating just how much of a clusterfuck it’d be if we got rid of the Commerce Department. Talked directly into the camera like he was going to ask you to lay hands on your TV. Often pauses for applause even when it hasn’t started.

***

Jeb Bush

He so obviously didn’t want to be there, I suspect he somehow wasn’t. Could barely even protest getting interrupted.

***

Carly Fiorina

Forest green looks fantastic on her, her hair was molten steel and her jaw was something even stronger. I don’t think her forehead moved but her teeth didn’t much either.

Spouted the same fake-specific military nonsense as before, with the same confidence. Cited Dodd-Frank as a “great example of how socialism starts,” which suggests she doesn’t understand socialism or banking regulations.

***

Rand Paul

At this point, Rand realizes that he’s not going to win, so he’s using his time on the debate stage to prove to himself how much smarter he is, anyway. The “ACT-UAL-LY” at the beginning of every answer he gave was silent. Good thing he’s an ophthalmologist because he’s gonna damage his eyes from rolling them so much.

[Pointedstick]

I thought it was funny how Rubio consistently and expertly avoided saying a single thing of substance for the whole night. Nothing but feel-good platitudes and Reagan-loving. What a speaker, though. So articulate. Such perfect teeth and hair! He's the conservative Obama all right.

[MediumTex]

I thought it was funny how Rubio consistently and expertly avoided saying a single thing of substance for the whole night. Nothing but feel-good platitudes and Reagan-loving. What a speaker, though. So articulate. Such perfect teeth and hair! He's the conservative Obama all right.

The thing you've also got to think about is which of those candidates could actually beat Clinton.

I know Kasich could beat Clinton, and it might not even be close.  The RINO in Kasich would pull lots of Democratic voters in his direction, but I think that he would govern the way he always has based upon a conservative approach to fiscal and tax matters (just academic, though, because he's out after last night).

Of the other candidates on the stage, I think Trump could beat Clinton.  I don't know about Carson, Cruz or Rubio.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I really know anything at all about Carson.  He seems like a nice man, but his comments about Joseph building the pyramids in Egypt to hold grain and other similar wacky comments make me wonder how well-connected to reality he is.  He also comes across at all times like he just woke up from a nap.

[MediumTex]

I thought it was funny how Rubio consistently and expertly avoided saying a single thing of substance for the whole night. Nothing but feel-good platitudes and Reagan-loving. What a speaker, though. So articulate. Such perfect teeth and hair! He's the conservative Obama all right.

A Rubio administration would be run by parasites in the mold of Rove, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Rubio would be like the model on the cover of an underwear catalog.  However good he might look, the meaningful decisions about cut, fit and pricing would be made by others.

[edsanville]

About a year ago, I was convinced that this would be a Clinton vs. Bush election, and I wanted to kill myself because I'm so tired of both of those last names and their associated political dynasties of mediocrity.  Then, Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders came in and gained support, and now I want to kill myself for completely different reasons.  Ugh.  Myanmar has better presidential candidates than the US does.

[WiseOne]

Anybody else starting to like Kasich, or am I the only one?

I like when he starts talking policy, because he was the only one who said anything sensible.  However, I agree with PS that his personality is entirely wrong for the job.  I hope that whoever is elected appoints him to a prominent role where his talents can be put to good use.

Otherwise, the debate was just a pile of talking points and political posturing.  Yuck.  Also very, very ironic considering the criticism of the last debate, which was only marginally worse.  And btw the one I hated the most was Rubio.  Trying to marry "family values" with tax policy made me want to gag.

Disclaimer:  I fell asleep for part of the show.

[MWKXJ]

I was surprised that Trump referenced Eisenhower's "Operation Wetback", that Cruz's mentioned Bretton Woods and the gold standard, and that Trump and Paul teamed up when speaking against further involvement in Syria and the Middle East.

I really don't trust any of them, however.  All seem to be standard fare GOP at heart in that they put finance above nation.  The Democratic party, too, has seemingly thrown the working man overboard and given itself over to race-baiting and stoking resentment across scores of accidental and invented identities.  If only there a party for those who do not want the thesis of their lives to be "rich" or "revenged".

Maybe the problem is that, for whatever reason, people have lost any sort of "vision" of what kind of life they're working toward.  Early in our marriage the wife and I watched a film which left a lasting impression, providing a "vision" of a world in which we would like to live.  The underlying philosophy of the film is hard to spot but is discovered, nonetheless, in its characters through their pragmatic acts.  In contrast to what comes out of Hollywood, there is no social justice undercurrent, no harping on rich or poor, no melodramatic concern over titanic future events, no murder or death, no guilt levelled against Western civilization, no contempt for manners, no cheapening of love or chivalry.  In short the film presents a radical vision in opposition to the current milieu.  People will laugh when they realize the film is based on a romantic comedy written over two centuries ago, but the world it depicts is in some way laughing at back at them.

The wife and I want to live in peace in a world stripped of needless histrionics and none of the current presidential candidates seem to share this vision for America.

[MWKXJ]

Fixed it for you.

Sorry, but I would include Paul in the list of standard-fare GOP candidates.  I will say that Paul does seem to differ from the pack somewhat by striving to be a "pure" libertarian ideologue, though that hardly seems in conflict with today's Republican party platform, which, as in libertarian dogma, sanctifies "free" trade, hand waves away the importance of borders, and deifies the economy, treating it as an end rather than a means to man's happiness.

[Libertarian666]

Fixed it for you.

Sorry, but I would include Paul in the list of standard-fare GOP candidates.  I will say that Paul does seem to differ from the pack somewhat by striving to be a "pure" libertarian ideologue, though that hardly seems in conflict with today's Republican party platform, which, as in libertarian dogma, sanctifies "free" trade, hand waves away the importance of borders, and deifies the economy, treating it as an end rather than a means to man's happiness.

It is true that the Republican platform sounds sort of libertarian, other than the militarism, but it is also thoroughly ignored once candidates get elected.

Of course he might do the same, but I don't think so, as I think he is a real libertarian or at least a highly libertarian-leaning conservative, not the neocon that most of the others are