Police Haters Responsible For Hundreds Of Shootings And Dozens Of Deaths

[Reub]

With the whackos and liberals on these boards, in the White House, and in local governments attacking police throughout our land, shootings and deaths of black people by other blacks have skyrocketed in the past few weeks. How short-sighted are you? Do black lives still matter to you now?

[moda0306]

Calling people who verbalize their disapproval of some police officers' behavior is hardly being a police hater, and even if it were, it is hardly "responsible" for the killing of police.

If that is so, perhaps "muslim-haters" are responsible for the war crimes that the U.S. and Israel commit.

Oh wait, since we actually elect the criminals, and don't elect thugs that kill police, that would actually be far more accurate.

[Reub]

Calling people who verbalize their disapproval of some police officers' behavior is hardly being a police hater, and even if it were, it is hardly "responsible" for the killing of police.

If that is so, perhaps "muslim-haters" are responsible for the war crimes that the U.S. and Israel commit.

Oh wait, since we actually elect the criminals, and don't elect thugs that kill police, that would actually be far more accurate.

Did anybody see anything in my post about the killing of police?

[D1984]

With the whackos and liberals on these boards, in the White House, and in local governments attacking police throughout our land, shootings and deaths of black people have skyrocketed in the past few weeks. How stupid are you? Do black lives still matter to you now?

I fail to see the connection between so called "police haters" (so criticizing the cops now means one is a "police hater"? That makes no sense) and increased shooting by police of citizens.

With that said, if one is really and truly concerned about police shooting people or being trigger happy, there is a simple solution.

Gun control.

No, not controlling civilians' guns.

Controlling the police's guns.

Take their firearms away and make upwards of 90% or 95% of police unarmed (obviously, SWAT and HRT and sharpshooters and the like would still be armed but most regular line officers wouldn't be) just like in Norway, the UK, New Zealand, and Iceland.

It's rather difficult to shoot a civilian if you as a cop aren't armed with a gun in the first place.

Problem solved (or at least much of it solved).

[Reub]

The increase in shootings and deaths are black on black civilian ones.

[MachineGhost]

The increase in shootings and deaths are black on black civilian ones.

Black cops killing black civilians or black civilians killing black cops?

Either way, not cool.

[Pointedstick]

The increase in shootings and deaths are black on black civilian ones.

So what in the world does this have to do with the police? These aren't crimes that the police can actually prevent. They are just typical thugs and drug dealers killing each other.

[Pointedstick]

The increase in shootings and deaths are black on black civilian ones.

So what in the world does this have to do with the police? These aren't crimes that the police can actually prevent. They are just typical thugs and drug dealers killing each other.

i think what rube is hinting or pointing at is that since cops are the bad guy in the MSM right now, and guilty in the public eye, and charged to be tried in court by default (until later exonerated in court but not in the media)..... the cops in some areas (mostly Baltimore) have stepped back a bit and lowered their presence and visibility to avoid being the next victim, or out of revenge for the treatment, and the black on black, civilian on civilian (criminal on criminal) crime rate has jumped up because of it...

1. Is there any evidence of increased victimization of non-criminals as opposed to just normal criminal-on-criminal violence?

2. Does anybody actually think that the police can prevent criminals from killing each other?

3. If a bunch of criminals kill each other… so what? What am I missing here?

#1 i don't know any hard stats about the crime increases, i would guess if the crooks feel free to go after each other more than normal then they will be going after honest citizens more often as well

RE #2 and 3 -- not if the criminals are determined to do it...-- but a strong public presence and the feeling "they are on the job" and will come after you is likely a deterrent to a lot of crimes of opportunity just because the opportunity to get away with it is far less..

[Reub]

baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/18/alarming-surge-in-murders-and-shootings-in-baltimore/

[MachineGhost]

I hate to sound callous, but this is just more of the same ol' bullshit black people have had to deal with since the 60's.  Maybe the lack of police presence will finally motivate them to get off their obese lazy asses and demand implement real change.  Singing gospel in black baptist churches is not how you do it.  Talk about being the poster child for everything that is wrong!

If I feel like this, imagine how the police do that have to deal with these people and their endless self-inflicted B.S. each and every day.

P.S.  See what I did above?  I even patronized them.

[Pointedstick]

baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/18/alarming-surge-in-murders-and-shootings-in-baltimore/

It's an eye-opening article. I think one could reasonably conclude that Baltimore has a substantial population of barbarians that must be routinely harassed oppressed by police to keep them in line. It's not pretty, but when the police stop doing that, chaos ensues. But in the end, the ones to blame are the residents themselves for putting up with this kind of thing. They're the parents of these thugs. They need to accept either periodic police brutality or open gangland warfare.

Beyond that, I'm happy I don't live in a place like that but I must admit that--and while I understand that this must sound terribly callous--I simply don't particularly care. It's a local problem, and one that will likely ultimately solve itself in the form of black flight as the non-gangbanger types flee the city, enriching the surrounding communities with their presence, while the city itself descends into Thunderdome. What kind of sane person would want to live there, family ties or no? Once it's to the point where you have to fasten steel plates over your windows to deflect stray gunfire, it's time to leave.

[moda0306]

baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/18/alarming-surge-in-murders-and-shootings-in-baltimore/

It's an eye-opening article. I think one could reasonably conclude that Baltimore has a substantial population of barbarians that must be routinely harassed oppressed by police to keep them in line. It's not pretty, but when the police stop doing that, chaos ensues. But in the end, the ones to blame are the residents themselves for putting up with this kind of thing. They're the parents of these thugs. They need to accept either periodic police brutality or open gangland warfare.

Beyond that, I'm happy I don't live in a place like that but I must admit that--and while I understand that this must sound terribly callous--I simply don't particularly care. It's a local problem, and one that will likely ultimately solve itself in the form of black flight as the non-gangbanger types flee the city, enriching the surrounding communities with their presence, while the city itself descends into Thunderdome. What kind of sane person would want to live there, family ties or no? Once it's to the point where you have to fasten steel plates over your windows to deflect stray gunfire, it's time to leave.

Yes... apathy eventually ensues.  If people aren't willing to take reasonable steps to protect themselves, I can't care that much considering all the things in life that deserve priority and CAN be helped.

I'd just add, though, that to the extent we're going to wear our "cops are agents of the citizenry" cap, I think demanding a code of conduct by that kind of power is extremely important.  I've seen the type of twisted logic folks get into when they start defending police brutality and corruption (as well as military/spy-state actions of the same sort on a larger scale), and more and more I'm starting to think that this kind of unchecked and well-organized power is one of the larger threats to our country.

We can avoid gang-bangers very easily.  We can't necessarily avoid over-zealous cops, or NSA agents that don't particularly care for anti-government/civilization/capitalist/corporatist/what-have-you/anarchist chit-chat on online forums.  The best way we can prevent government tyranny is to most strongly focus a consistent rule of law to the actors in government first and foremost before we start pointing the finger at "that group" that we don't like in society. 

[MachineGhost]

I'd just add, though, that to the extent we're going to wear our "cops are agents of the citizenry" cap, I think demanding a code of conduct by that kind of power is extremely important.  I've seen the type of twisted logic folks get into when they start defending police brutality and corruption (as well as military/spy-state actions of the same sort on a larger scale), and more and more I'm starting to think that this kind of unchecked and well-organized power is one of the larger threats to our country.

This is almost too funny!  Where in the living hell have you been since 2001?  All empires in history without exception fall when the proverbial Praetorian guard starts feeding on the civilians (especially when the empire is bankrupt and can't pay them their salary).  At that point you know you're in the end game for the deflationary collapse as emigration starts to outpace immigration.  But given that we're in an era of currency issuing now, the game may have changed to become perpetual.  We may wind up with many perpetual Thunderdomes (i.e. Detroit).

Anyone seen the new Mad Max film?  I hope its intense and gnarly and not boring tripe like the Total Recall reboot.

[Libertarian666]

I'd just add, though, that to the extent we're going to wear our "cops are agents of the citizenry" cap, I think demanding a code of conduct by that kind of power is extremely important.  I've seen the type of twisted logic folks get into when they start defending police brutality and corruption (as well as military/spy-state actions of the same sort on a larger scale), and more and more I'm starting to think that this kind of unchecked and well-organized power is one of the larger threats to our country.

This is almost too funny!  Where in the living hell have you been since 2001?  All empires in history without exception fall when the proverbial Praetorian guard starts feeding on the civilians (especially when the empire is bankrupt and can't pay them their salary).  At that point you know you're in the end game for the deflationary collapse.  But given that we're in an era of currency issuing now, the game may have changed to become perpetual.  We may wind up with many perpetual Thunderdomes.

There is absolutely nothing new about "currency issuing" other than the technical detail of using paper instead of debasing metallic currency; the latter "old technology" has been used for millennia.

The Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire lasted for hundreds of years after the Western Roman Empire fell. They (the Easterners) had sound money called the "bezant" during that time, and almost as soon as they started debasing it, they fell too. What a coincidence!

[moda0306]

I'd just add, though, that to the extent we're going to wear our "cops are agents of the citizenry" cap, I think demanding a code of conduct by that kind of power is extremely important.  I've seen the type of twisted logic folks get into when they start defending police brutality and corruption (as well as military/spy-state actions of the same sort on a larger scale), and more and more I'm starting to think that this kind of unchecked and well-organized power is one of the larger threats to our country.

This is almost too funny!  Where in the living hell have you been since 2001?  All empires in history without exception fall when the proverbial Praetorian guard starts feeding on the civilians (especially when the empire is bankrupt and can't pay them their salary).  At that point you know you're in the end game for the deflationary collapse.  But given that we're in an era of currency issuing now, the game may have changed to become perpetual.  We may wind up with many perpetual Thunderdomes.

There is absolutely nothing new about "currency issuing" other than the technical detail of using paper instead of debasing metallic currency; the latter "old technology" has been used for millennia.

The Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire lasted for hundreds of years after the Western Roman Empire fell. They (the Easterners) had sound money called the "bezant" during that time, and almost as soon as they started debasing it, they fell too. What a coincidence!

Sounds like a state-sponsored currency, regardless... why would you defend such a thing?

[LC475]

Idiotic Police Haters Responsible For Hundreds Of Shootings And Dozens Of Deaths

The nice thing is, when People X (whatever kind of people they might be, and whomever they might hate) are responsible for dozens of deaths, guess what happens?  Dozens of them are tried and dozens of them are convicted for those deaths.  Not the same number as the number of deaths, but a pretty high percentage.  Isn't that nice?

I rather think it is.

Seems like a reasonable way to deal with things.

On the other hand, there's one group of People X that is an exception to this.

Can you guess who?

One large subgroup of this group, a subgroup we call "police," has been responsible for the deaths of over 12,000 people since 2006, according to the best numbers we have (actually, this figure is probably quite a bit too low).  How many of these people have been convicted of any crime whatsoever?  Not of murder mind you, but of any crime whatsoever?  Maybe something like "disturbing the peace with a machine gun," or "misdemeanor property damage, getting blood splattered all over the mall that cost a lot to clean up".  How many?  12.

One out of a thousand.

So that's... problematic.  In my view.  Seems like people should be held responsible for things that people are responsible for.

But then, I'm just silly, and idiotic, and probably retarded, MachineGhost can tell you all about it, and maybe even secretly Liberal as well.

[LC475]

Anyway, thanks for the laughs, Rube.  Your satirical antics are getting better.  Keep it coming!  All Heil O-Reilly!!1!1

[Tyler]

Quick recap:

Dangerous city with lots of crime.
Police force with a documented history of misbehavior.  Nothing is done.
Someone dies in custody.  Riots ensue.
Mayor tells police to stand down.  "Room to destroy".
Prosecutor shows notable bias. Overreaches in charges to appease rioters. Claims Twitter "hacking" after favoriting racially inflammatory tweets.
Cops stop patrolling.  Fear or malice, depending on who you ask. 
Doesn't matter -- Result is the same.  Crime rate increases.
More people die.

Honestly, the Baltimore situation is so screwed up on all sides that I don't know what to think anymore other than there's no way in hell I'd ever live there.

[Libertarian666]

This is almost too funny!  Where in the living hell have you been since 2001?  All empires in history without exception fall when the proverbial Praetorian guard starts feeding on the civilians (especially when the empire is bankrupt and can't pay them their salary).  At that point you know you're in the end game for the deflationary collapse.  But given that we're in an era of currency issuing now, the game may have changed to become perpetual.  We may wind up with many perpetual Thunderdomes.

There is absolutely nothing new about "currency issuing" other than the technical detail of using paper instead of debasing metallic currency; the latter "old technology" has been used for millennia.

The Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire lasted for hundreds of years after the Western Roman Empire fell. They (the Easterners) had sound money called the "bezant" during that time, and almost as soon as they started debasing it, they fell too. What a coincidence!

Sounds like a state-sponsored currency, regardless... why would you defend such a thing?

It was a fixed weight of gold for about 800 years. Yes, it had a stamp on it from the state, but the stamp doesn't mean anything if they are debasing it.

So for me to be upset about that would be similar to my being upset by the fact that the metric system standards are manufactured by government agencies (assuming they are) and kept in government vaults. That is pretty low on my list!

(Note: )

[MachineGhost]

The Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire lasted for hundreds of years after the Western Roman Empire fell. They (the Easterners) had sound money called the "bezant" during that time, and almost as soon as they started debasing it, they fell too. What a coincidence!

I'd say don't conflate resource scarcity with unlimited electrons.  Under the former, debasing is bad.  Under the latter, debasing is bad only past the point it supersedes productivity monetization.  Guess which era we're in now?

And BTW its not about gold.  Its about confidence.  And whatever people have confidence in, is money.  Which is why Byzantine copied the Aureus.  The metaphysical allure of confidence is very important for money to work as a medium-of-exchange.  Gold is no longer money.

[Mountaineer]

When I see an inflammatory accusation like this, i.e.

Police Haters Responsible For Hundreds Of Shootings And Dozens Of Deaths

or

With the whackos and liberals on these boards, in the White House, and in local governments attacking police throughout our land, shootings and deaths of black people by other blacks have skyrocketed in the past few weeks. How short-sighted are you? Do black lives still matter to you now?

... my first response is to ask the question: Is the observation even true?  That is, it is true that shooting deaths of black people by other blacks has skyrocketed?

The only piece of data you've even indirectly provided was this tiny bit from the cbslocal link:

Her 33-year-old son Louis is now one of 96 homicides in Baltimore this year–an undercurrent of violence that’s up almost one-third from this time last year.

Note that this doesn't say anything about whether it is blacks shooting other blacks. 

In any case, my question here is: Is a 33% increase significant?  How does this compare with the natural variation in the number of Baltimore homicides?  That is, show me a month-to-month plot of Batimore homicides over, say, a 10 year period, and let me see if there is really a spike, or if it is just the inherent variability.

Until then, why should I not view your fear over this increase the same way that I and others (including you!) look at buddtholomew panicking over one-day movements in elements of the PP? (sorry budd)

As for your accusation that "police haters" or "whackos or liberals on these boards in the White House, and in local governments" are somehow responsible... Well, I would expect such an accusation from a right wing extremist.  But if you want people to take you seriously, it would be good to provide some information that shows causation exists, or at least maybe exists.  Or that there is some kind of link.

For example... My guess is there are people who are members of the groups you disapprove of all over the country.  Are homicides up everywhere?

Regardless of variance and trends up or down, on an absolute basis Baltimore does not look like a great place to live from a crime viewpoint relative to the US average.  Ugh!  No wonder the police are crabby.  Oh give me land, lots of land and open skies, don't fence me in; especially in a concrete jungle

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ba ... yland.html

... Mountaineer

[Libertarian666]

The Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire lasted for hundreds of years after the Western Roman Empire fell. They (the Easterners) had sound money called the "bezant" during that time, and almost as soon as they started debasing it, they fell too. What a coincidence!

I'd say don't conflate resource scarcity with unlimited electrons.  Under the former, debasing is bad.  Under the latter, debasing is bad only past the point it supersedes productivity monetization.  Guess which era we're in now?

And BTW its not about gold.  Its about confidence.  And whatever people have confidence in, is money.  Which is why Byzantine copied the Aureus.  The metaphysical allure of confidence is very important for money to work as a medium-of-exchange.  Gold is no longer money.

Right, this time it's different.
Until it isn't.

[Pointedstick]

Right, this time it's different.
Until it isn't.

Exactly. Only, the point at which it isn't still turns out to be remarkably difficult to guess. You said you've owned gold for 40 years, right? The collapse sure is taking its time…

[Libertarian666]

Right, this time it's different.
Until it isn't.

Exactly. Only, the point at which it isn't still turns out to be remarkably difficult to guess. You said you've owned gold for 40 years, right? The collapse sure it taking its time…

Yes, timing is always very difficult.
But I'm still happy with the investment results I've had so far.

[Reub]

baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/18/alarming-surge-in-murders-and-shootings-in-baltimore/

It's an eye-opening article. I think one could reasonably conclude that Baltimore has a substantial population of barbarians that must be routinely harassed oppressed by police to keep them in line. It's not pretty, but when the police stop doing that, chaos ensues. But in the end, the ones to blame are the residents themselves for putting up with this kind of thing. They're the parents of these thugs. They need to accept either periodic police brutality or open gangland warfare.

Beyond that, I'm happy I don't live in a place like that but I must admit that--and while I understand that this must sound terribly callous--I simply don't particularly care. It's a local problem, and one that will likely ultimately solve itself in the form of black flight as the non-gangbanger types flee the city, enriching the surrounding communities with their presence, while the city itself descends into Thunderdome. What kind of sane person would want to live there, family ties or no? Once it's to the point where you have to fasten steel plates over your windows to deflect stray gunfire, it's time to leave.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/2 ... -shooting/