Cuba

madbean · Post by **madbean** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:04 pm

So how do you all feel about lifting sanctions against Cuba?

They've been in place for 53 years and they haven't worked yet so should we give them another 53 years (I'll be dead)?

Doesn't make a bit of sense to me for a supposedly free country to tell another country that since we don't believe your people have freedom the way we define freedom, then we aren't going to let our people be free to visit or do business with your country. All in the name of freedom.

I Shrugged · Post by **I Shrugged** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:22 pm

For at least 20 years I've been advocating normalized relations. It's absurd. Thank God Obama got one right. I realize the sanctions are still in place, but I hope the conservatives will set aside the anti-Obama politics to reduce or eliminate the sanctions.

Pointedstick · Post by **Pointedstick** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:24 pm

I don't see what it's done for either country. Especially now that Raul is in charge and seems interested in letting the country begin creaking toward the 21st century, it seems a bit silly to continue along the same path.

Reub · Post by **Reub** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:49 pm

The fact that I left this obvious move by Obama off of his lame duck to do list really irks me.

Post by **dualstow** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:29 pm

I'm for lifting Cuba sanctions, and yet I am for sanctions against Putin. Am I a hypocrite?

Tortoise · Post by **Tortoise** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:41 pm

I guess this makes sense, because the U.S. has become increasingly socialist and regulated since the Cold War. Now we're socialist enough to be friends with Cuba again!

MachineGhost · Post by **MachineGhost** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:08 pm

Tortoise wrote: I guess this makes sense, because the U.S. has become increasingly socialist and regulated since the Cold War. Now we're socialist enough to be friends with Cuba again!

Big difference between socialist corporatism and not owning the means of production as in Cuba That's the only reason it is stuck in the 1950's.

Once relations are normalized, we'll get the inside scoop on all the dirty deeds for how they kept the citizens in line via their "Gestapo". It won't be pretty.

Reub · Post by **Reub** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:19 pm

Obama can lambast Bush/Cheney for policies of alleged torture and yet cozy up to nations that torture all of the time to oppress their own people.

Jan Van · Post by **Jan Van** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:35 am

How is Cuba different from China? Why wouldn't we have the same sort of relations with Cuba as we have with China, or vice versa?

Post by **dualstow** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:51 am

Jan Van wrote: How is Cuba different from China? Why wouldn't we have the same sort of relations with Cuba as we have with China, or vice versa?

We don't have the luxury of treating China the way we treat Cuba. Sure both govt's can be heavy handed with the populace but, stating the obvious here, China is gigantic. And powerful.

Jan Van · Post by **Jan Van** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:53 am

dualstow wrote: We don't have the luxury of treating China the way we treat Cuba. Sure both govt's can be heavy handed with the populace but, stating the obvious here, China is gigantic. And powerful.

Ahh good. I though it might have to do with $$$!

Post by **dualstow** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:54 am

Well, same thing. You said it more concisely.

MachineGhost · Post by **MachineGhost** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:40 pm

Jan Van wrote: How is Cuba different from China? Why wouldn't we have the same sort of relations with Cuba as we have with China, or vice versa?

Cuba isn't a "red capitalist" state like China, although it might be a chicken-and-egg situation. They'll surely become at least one with the embargo removed. Right now, I'd call Cuba a "nomenklatura state" like the USSR was.

That isn't much play to be had in Cuba other than cruise ships, hotels and I think electricity/pipeline operators in FL. I got tired of tracking potential Cuban stocks that would take off on embargo lifting. The CUBA fund is trading at a 9% premium already but was -22% yesterday. Nice move.

Reub · Post by **Reub** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:21 pm

Will we be able to steal all of their great baseball players now for less money? Is this really a plot by O'Steinbrenner?

Simonjesater wrote: maybe somebody high up in power, or with influence, is a classic car buff, a lot of poor Cubans will do well selling their 1950s cars at american collector prices...

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:42 pm

Do you think Cuba Gooding Jr. will celebrate with a Cuba Libré?

... Mountaineer

Post by **dualstow** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Simonjester wrote: maybe somebody high up in power, or with influence, is a classic car buff, a lot of poor Cubans will do well selling their 1950s cars at american collector prices...

I was thinking about those amazingly well-preserved cars, too! It's really the leading reason to perpetuate sanctions.

(I was thinking about those cars).

murphy_p_t · Post by **murphy_p_t** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:06 pm

dualstow wrote: I'm for lifting Cuba sanctions, and yet I am for sanctions against Putin. Am I a hypocrite?

warm-mongerer too

putting sanctions on putin seems like a good way to antagonize for a war

murphy_p_t · Post by **murphy_p_t** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:08 pm

madbean wrote: Doesn't make a bit of sense to me for a supposedly free country to tell another country that since we don't believe your people have freedom the way we define freedom...

who describes what they have in Cuba as "freedom"? Buehler?

Reub · Post by **Reub** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:13 pm

Does Barack covet a warm vacation spot a little closer than Hawaii?

Reub · Post by **Reub** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:22 pm

Is it really warm in Waziristan this time of year?

Post by **dualstow** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:03 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
dualstow wrote: I'm for lifting Cuba sanctions, and yet I am for sanctions against Putin. Am I a hypocrite?
warm-mongerer too

putting sanctions on putin seems like a good way to antagonize for a war

With all this talk of warm weather, maybe I am a "warm monger" indeed.

But we do have sanctions on Putin, you know. Right now.

Ad Orientem · Post by **Ad Orientem** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:52 pm

Desert wrote:
Reub wrote: Does Barack covet a warm vacation spot a little closer than Hawaii?
I hear the weather in Cuba is much like that in the country of Obama's birth too.

Reub · Post by **Reub** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:13 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Reub wrote: The fact that I left this obvious move by Obama off of his lame duck to do list really irks me.
Dude, you're slacking!

Maybe I can make up for this glaring omission: With the holidays just about upon us I predict that the investigation into deserter Bo Bergdahl's desertion will be made public just before Christmas and show (drumroll) that the deserter who we traded five high Taliban commanders for was indeed a deserter.

Ad Orientem · Post by **Ad Orientem** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:27 pm

Desert wrote:
Ad Orientem wrote:
Desert wrote: I hear the weather in Cuba is much like that in the country of Obama's birth too.

That was meant as humor .... I need to start stamping my humor emails with a smiley, I guess.

But I do like your family pic, Ad Orientem.

.

Sorry about that. I've seen a lot of silly conspiracy theories get endorsement on this forum. As for the photo, that would be my cousin Ben and family, for whom the moon shot was faked but professional wrestling is as real as a $20 gold piece.

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