Is Intermittent Fasting Good For You?

[Reub]

I just saw this study about fasting:

"Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds

Fasting for as little as three days can regenerate the entire immune system, even in the elderly, scientists have found in a breakthrough described as "remarkable".

Although fasting diets have been criticised by nutritionists for being unhealthy, new research suggests starving the body kick-starts stem cells into producing new white blood cells, which fight off infection."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... finds.html

Personally, I have been fasting for 16 hours/day and eating only within an 8 hour window for the past few months with a weight loss of 22 pounds. But is this really healthy? Is Intermittent Fasting (IF) a settled science? 

[MachineGhost]

Personally, I have been fasting for 16 hours/day and eating only within an 8 hour window for the past few months with a weight loss of 22 pounds. But is this really healthy? Is Intermittent Fasting (IF) a settled science?

The 16-hours was actually the lower end of a scientific study showing health benefits from fasting (it went up to three days, I believe).  I think it's just too hard to go several days fasting because each time you eat, you reset the psychological hunger state,  and have to go through the hunger withdrawal pains hell again and again each time you do a new several days fast.  That's almost torture.  It's far easier to stuff yourself in 8-hours and have no desire to eat for the next 16.  I've fasted for up to two weeks before.

[iwealth]

Can't speak much for multi-day fasting, but an 8-hour eating window probably isn't all that uncommon amongst the general population.

[Benko]

There are a number of intermittent fasting protocols, with the fast 16 hours/eat 8 hours the "easiest" to follow vs e.g. eat 24/fast 24. 

Periodic fasting does have a number of benefits (I believe there are a number of studies on this), though if you have adrenal issues fasting (except perhaps the fast 16/eat intermittent fasting is best avoided. 

[Reub]

I've heard doctors state that those who have metabolic syndrome (prediabetic..which is a lot of us) or full blown diabetes should eat small portions every few hours, up to 5 times per day. How does this jive with the concept of intermittent fasting?

[Mark Leavy]

I've heard doctors state that those who have metabolic syndrome (prediabetic..which is a lot of us) or full blown diabetes should eat small portions every few hours, up to 5 times per day. How does this jive with the concept of intermittent fasting?

Metabolic Syndrome is bad news.  I would focus completely on eliminating or minimizing that issue first before worrying about intermittent fasting.

I can't speak for your specific situation, but for many people, weight loss - and perhaps carb restriction are enough to take metabolic syndrome completely out of the picture.  Whatever approach you end up with, that should be your goal.  I shudder when I see people put hours of effort into their monetary investments while not addressing pre-diabetes.

My sincere best wishes, Reub - and for what it's worth, you can IF while pre-diabetic *after* you've weaned yourself from carbs - but only if that's the method you chose to address your primary issue.

[Benko]

Kresser on IF:

"That’s why I don’t recommend intermittent fasting for people with blood sugar regulation problems." (cortisol issues)

http://chriskresser.com/intermittent-fa ... lood-sugar

[clacy]

I've always had a problem with eating 5-6 small meals.  I never felt full or satisfied when I tried that. 

I guess I've been a quasi-faster for the majority of the last decade or so.  I've never had much of an appetite in the morning, so why try to force yourself to eat if you're not hungry?  I rarely eat much before noon, and often times my first meal is around 2pm or so. I usually eat fairly heavily at night. 

I can't say I'm in amazing shape because of this, but based on how much I eat at night, I'm shocked I'm not fatter.

[MachineGhost]

"That’s why I don’t recommend intermittent fasting for people with blood sugar regulation problems." (cortisol issues)

Note that this is within the context of reactive hypoglycemia, not just elevated blood sugar from poor diet, lifestyle, etc..

Anyway, Kresser sure is amazing at identifying causes, but he really sucks at prescribing cures.  "Lower your stress" is easier said than done.  I can't tolerate the adaptogenic herbs he recommends, so what the heck does that suggest about my adrenals?  It never occurs to these integrative doctors.

[Benko]

"Lower your stress" is easier said than done. 

Yes, that is very true, but what is the alternative? 

As someone who is speaking from personal experience, there are no supplements, no herbs, no alternative practitioner that can prevent stress/extreme emotions from doing bad things to your body.  The only way I know of to deal with that are certain forms of meditation (plus) to prevent them.    If I didn't share them with you way back, I can if you're interested. 

I can't tolerate the adaptogenic herbs he recommends, so what the heck does that suggest about my adrenals?  It never occurs to these integrative doctors.

His main adrenal recommendation (Rhodiola) does nothing for me, but if you bought his book there is a bonus web down load chapter on adrenal fatigue and it lists:

"Ashwagandha, Siberian ginseng, maca root, rhodiola, and licorice root extract.
They are generally well-tolerated"

In your case I gather you are very sensitive to many things, and there are only so many things one can cover in a book written for a general audience. 
EDIT:  and there is no way other than trial and error to predict which supplements will work and not cause problems for you. 

"It never occurs to these integrative doctors."
What never occurs, that the general remedies they recommend may not help everyone?  I would think Kresser realizes that.  Books are not a substitute for a one on one consultation with someone qualified.

[moda0306]

I've been counting calories for a few months, and I've found that skipping or eating maybe a hard-boiled egg for breakfast (in the context of eating right and getting good sleep) has had 1) little negative affect on my energy in the morning, and 2) makes it much easier for me to stay within my calorie limit for the day.

BTW, the app I use is "myfitnesspal" to count calores.  I love it. I now eat much fewer calories, much healthier food, and exercise more.

But all in all I wanted to give one guy's point of view on a version of intermittent fasting.  And I have a negative vested interest in this conclusion.  I usually love breakfast.  It was very hard for me to get rid of the idea of eating less of it, much less eliminating it, entirely.

[MachineGhost]

I've been counting calories for a few months, and I've found that skipping or eating maybe a hard-boiled egg for breakfast (in the context of eating right and getting good sleep) has had 1) little negative affect on my energy in the morning, and 2) makes it much easier for me to stay within my calorie limit for the day.

BTW, the app I use is "myfitnesspal" to count calores.  I love it. I now eat much fewer calories, much healthier food, and exercise more.

But all in all I wanted to give one guy's point of view on a version of intermittent fasting.  And I have a negative vested interest in this conclusion.  I usually love breakfast.  It was very hard for me to get rid of the idea of eating less of it, much less eliminating it, entirely.

How many calories are you targeting?  I've varied between 1500-1800 for the last two decades.  The biggest result has been the lowering of my thyroid/metabolism which is hard to tell apart from age onset decline at this point.  And a lack of muscle mass which I've gradually reversed over the last two-three years as I got really concerned about sarcopenia.  I do eat ad libitum once a week on workout day and about half of that the next day if I feel the need.

I still eat breakfast.  Optimal IF means pulse-feeding with the appropriate amount of macronutrients (50g carbs, 30g+ protein x 3) within an 8 hour window to promote anabolism and not eating anything at all during the other 16 to promote catabolism.  What's great about eating like this is you can control your weight just by adding or omitting the fats.  But I can understand this could be quite difficult to do if you have a traditional job.

[Benko]

How many calories are you targeting?  I've varied between 1500-1800 for the last two decades.

This sounds like Calorie restriction (CR) which is another discussion.

CR has many advocates, though it will (in most cases) do bad things to your bone density.  Weightlifting (and I mean reglarly lifting heavy weights, not pink dumbells) I assume can prevent this. 

[moda0306]

Well here goes...

I'm currently doing the following:

1) Lifting 3 times per week, mostly core lifts (squat, dead, bench (and of course some cheater curls!))... try to do some ridiculous high-rep "Spartan" work out from time to time to beat the $hit out of my body and get some cardio in.

2) Reducing calories to net 1,550 (if my workout burns 200, I can eat 1,750) per day.  I usually fail at this to the tune of about 300-400 calories, but have significantly improved since skipping or having measly breakfast.  My goal is to drop at least 20 lbs of fat and it's a bonus if I gain some good muscle in the meantime.

3) Get my macro-nutrient ratio in order.  I tend to prefer the Perfect Health Diet for the most likely healthy diet to follow.  So I try to eat health (saturated, mono, and Omega 3) fats, good protein, and carbs from vegetables, some rice, a little fruit (never juice or blended) and sweet potatoes... as few grains as possible, and as few garbage processed sugars as possible.

4) Get enough micronutrients.  I take a multi-vitamin but try to get them from eating foods with a ton of micro-nutrients.  Broccoli, squash, peas, cooked spinach, certain animal products.  I want to make sure I'm staying plenty nourished on that stuff.

5) Try to get 8 glasses of water a day + 8 hours of sleep at night.  I'll probably reapproach my sleep at a later time when I feel like I've got my other variables under control... see if there's some sort of power-napping program I can get myself on to get an extra hour or two (healthily) out of my day.

6) I am now trying to skip breakfast, and it's working well.  This is mainly to help me keep to my 1,550 calorie goal and lose fat.  So when I'm back in what I deem to be a healthy state, I'll be raising my calorie goal for the day and eating more regular breakfasts.

7) Also trying to cut back on drinking, but only since tracking it do I realize how hard it is (or how easy it is to crack a beer or pour a drink when they're available).

That's about it, guys.  I'm definitely not running on all cylendars of health, but far better than the excuses and BS that had enveloped me for years after college.  When you focus on over-lapping areas of health in your life (lifting with friends, cooking food with family, take a concealed carry class with work/business associates) things start to just work better.  One thing that has been helpful is taking a broadsword to unhealthy habits.  I watched too much tv... cancelled cable and took down the rabbit ears.  I at too much garbage... completely quit buying it in the first place.  I played stupid games on my phone... got rid of them.  I had friends that were just unhealthy people... I still hang with them, but I invite them over to grill real food on a weeknight rather than go out with them to party on a Saturday night.

Probably TMI... but I figure you can sort out the valid stuff from the irrelevant to analyze what I've got going on.

[Benko]

Moda,

looks basically good.  The only minor points I'll make as much for others reading as you:

1. "some ridiculous high-rep "Spartan" work"
Whatever you're doing, arrange things so as to minimize the odds of hurting yourself (please no oly lifts to failure).  Someone once wrote a program for me which was something like:

A 3 sets of compound lifts
B 10 min cardio,

repeat A and B 3 times with different compound lifts each time. 

2. At a minimum, get some kinda water filter e.g. brita and change it regularly. 

3.  I try and get berries (frozen, in season, or organic mixed powder), carrots, and spinach/kale many days (broccoli is very good too). 

Edit: the berries/veggies are just my personal choices based on what is healthy, there are many possibilities and many believe that the key is eating a variety of different veggies. 

[moda0306]

Moda,

looks basically good.  The only minor points I'll make as much for others reading as you:

1. "some ridiculous high-rep "Spartan" work"
Whatever you're doing, arrange things so as to minimize the odds of hurting yourself (please no oly lifts to failure).  Someone once wrote a program for me which was something like:

A 3 sets of compound lifts
B 10 min cardio,

repeat A and B 3 times with different compound lifts each time. 

2. At a minimum, get some kinda water filter e.g. brita and change it regularly. 

3.  I try and get berries (frozen, in season, or organic mixed powder), carrots, and spinach/kale many days (broccoli is very good too). 

Thanks Benko! 

1) The closest thing I'm doing to "olympic lifts to failure" is super-light cleans and overhead press x 50 reps.  Any thoughts?  It really is super light weight.  The rest is pushups, pullups, box jumps, etc.  Body weight stuff. Miserable, I tell you.

I really don't know about it.  Kicks my butt I was insanely sore for 3 days after.  Given how much it sucks, I wouldn't worry about me doing it too often.

2) I have a water filter and change it often, but am often drinking water at work & other places.

3) Regarding getting berries, I should do more.  I get my veggies mostly from the frozen bag section... I love the new Steamfresh veggie bags where you pop them in the microwave for 5 minutes and the bag is designed to steam the veggies.  So friggin' convenient.  I also grill veggies pretty regularly in the spring/summer fall.

I try to stick with the ones insanely high in micronutrients.  I get enough carbs in my diet elsewhere that veggies are mostly a stomach-filler & micro-nutrient delivery system.

[Reub]

I've heard doctors state that those who have metabolic syndrome (prediabetic..which is a lot of us) or full blown diabetes should eat small portions every few hours, up to 5 times per day. How does this jive with the concept of intermittent fasting?

Metabolic Syndrome is bad news.  I would focus completely on eliminating or minimizing that issue first before worrying about intermittent fasting.

I can't speak for your specific situation, but for many people, weight loss - and perhaps carb restriction are enough to take metabolic syndrome completely out of the picture.  Whatever approach you end up with, that should be your goal.  I shudder when I see people put hours of effort into their monetary investments while not addressing pre-diabetes.

My sincere best wishes, Reub - and for what it's worth, you can IF while pre-diabetic *after* you've weaned yourself from carbs - but only if that's the method you chose to address your primary issue.

I also posted this in the permanent supplement section but I have found my panacea for my prediabetes/metabolic syndrome. After trying virtually every diet, exercise, and supplement known to man, partially hydrolyzed guar gum is the bomb, at least for me. I mix it in a glass of water before meals and stir it. It dissolves completely and has no taste and doesn't thicken. Almost immediately after beginning its use my stubbornly elevated fasting blood glucose has come down on average 25 points to readings in the 70's and low 80's! Even after my traditional Thanksgiving dinner with two desserts my postprandial blood sugar was an amazing 87. Prior to this I could take my berberine, chromium, banaba, vanadium, cinnamon, run 7 miles, lift weights, eat paleo and/or low carb, and intermittent fast and barely ever get my numbers below 100. I would definitely recommend this to anyone looking to regulate their blood glucose for long term health.

This is the link that got me started:

http://www.wellnessresources.com/tips/a ... a_swagger/

[stone]

I'm impressed that you guys all know and can quote all these numbers. In the UK they seem to just tell (me at any rate) how things are in the vaguest terms. Because I have had doxorubicin treatment in the past (for lymphoma) and a family history of heart disease I'm supposed to be at risk and so get annual tests. I'm just told everything is fine -no numbers at all.

In terms of fitness stuff, for me what really helps is to have a goal to train for. I doesn't matter how insignificant it is so long as it enthuses me. I like rock climbing and have some climbs that I would love to be able to climb. I suspect I would be so sloppy at exercising if it were just for health (even though rationally that is what is important) but I'll be like a dog with a bone if I think it will help me get up my target climb even though it is just a silly person challenge.
I guess what I'm saying is that if say running is your thing, then it might be very different trying to run a distance in some stupidly quick time (for you) rather than just going out for a run now and again. You will end up doing  wacky training sets, core stability exercises or whatever to try and eek out a little more speed. Rather than being something you dutifully do it may become something you have to be disciplined to keep in perspective .

[clacy]

One thing to consider..... nachos can be really tasty

[moda0306]

One thing to consider..... nachos can be really tasty

Skipping breakfast and trying to push lunch into the afternoon has left my calorie counter a lot more flexible come happy-hour time .

I will mention I do this with an attempt at a healthy micro/macro-nutrient correctness in my diet, and a moderate distain for garbage grains and processes shit.

[Mark Leavy]

Moda - I'm chiming in with a big thumbs up and best wishes for you.

Anytime you start paying attention, your life will get better.  The implementation details can result in a lot of fun debates, but in reality, the fact that you are examining these things for yourself and making measured changes is the best possible situation.  I think you have already won.

[gizmo_rat]

In the UK they seem to just tell (me at any rate) how things are in the vaguest terms... I'm just told everything is fine -no numbers at all.

Just ask. The way GPs seem to work is, phone a week after the test if you want the detail, otherwise we'll ring you if there's a problem. I don't bother, without sufficient context and background it seems like pointless quantification and invitation to obsession.

[moda0306]

Thanks guys! 

It's been fun, surprisingly easy (when factoring in the alternative of being a lazy tub of shit who eats unhealthy and having to put up with my own excuses), and I've gotten to the point where the journey is as motivating as the destination. A day at/under 1,550 net calories and some power lifting and healthy food and a good night's sleep is extremely gratifying in and of itself now.

[stone]

In the UK they seem to just tell (me at any rate) how things are in the vaguest terms... I'm just told everything is fine -no numbers at all.

Just ask. The way GPs seem to work is, phone a week after the test if you want the detail, otherwise we'll ring you if there's a problem. I don't bother, without sufficient context and background it seems like pointless quantification and invitation to obsession.

I guess you're right about the  pointless quantification and invitation to obsession. I'll take your advice and not ask

[moda0306]

Thanks guys! 

It's been fun, surprisingly easy (when factoring in the alternative of being a lazy tub of shit who eats unhealthy and having to put up with my own excuses), and I've gotten to the point where the journey is as motivating as the destination. A day at/under 1,550 net calories and some power lifting and healthy food and a good night's sleep is extremely gratifying in and of itself now.

  Cool.  I am a bit offended by your "lazy tub of shit" comment though.  Can you imagine how that makes other lazy tubs of shit feel? 

Sorry I really didn't mean to be a dick. I was just describing how I felt at the time.