Logical Fallacies

[TripleB]

RuralEngineer posted a great link in one of the gun control threads that points to a site dedicated to logical fallacies.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

Interestingly, I only read the first few and bookmarked it for later. I then started websurfing to a Gun Forum I frequent, and they are discussing one Gun Expert's public statement he made on gun control. However, part of this "expert's" statement included a reference to another expert who has recently been discredited as a hack. And thus, they were saying this guy must also be completely wrong in his statement (even though most if it was quite good).

I immediately realized this to be a fallacy that was one of the first 3 I read on that site. Just because Guy A references Guy B, and Guy B later turns out to be a hack, doesn't mean everything Guy A says is wrong.

I only first heard of logical fallacies fairly recently when I was considering going to law school and saw them on the LSAT. I never really heard of them before outside of common use of the word fallacy. I never knew there was a whole field dedicated to it.

I started to wonder why we aren't taught this in middle school or high school. It seems like it should be part of the curriculum. Then I realized, maybe the government doesn't want us to understand this stuff because we'd really MOST of the arguments they make are not logically sound. However, that itself would be a fallacy for me to believe it. i.e.:

Government benefits by us not knowing the rules of logic/arguments.
Government sets up curriculum for public schools.
Government does not put logic theory on the curriculum.

It's NOT a sound argument to say "The government is intentionally withholding this from public schools because it's in their best interest."

I plan to read through that entire site and try to apply them to my readings of the news over the next few weeks.

[KevinW]

Yeah, the great majority of "arguments" you hear in the media and on the Internet are fallacious. I recommend reading the rest of the list. 

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

[TripleB]

Yeah, the great majority of "arguments" you hear in the media and on the Internet are fallacious. I recommend reading the rest of the list. 

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

I can't trust ANYTHING on the internet. Most arguments on the internet on fallacious. Argument A is on the internet. Ergo, Argument A is fallacious! 

[KevinW]

Now you've got the idea.

[RuralEngineer]

Most people think that they're using logic and reason to make decisions, but they are usually resorting to some kind of logical fallacy.  Actual logical thinking is quite hard.  Avoiding logical fallacies entirely is very difficult, as the length of the list of fallacies can attest.

Logical or reasoned thought is impossible when you're attempting to play to a populist mentality and are constantly flip flopping your views to suit the latest poll.  Because of this I'm not surprised when every statement by a politician is layered in fallacious arguments.

[melveyr]

Cool site. I will definitely work through them.

My pet peeve is when someone uses the fallacy of composition when attempting to paint an economic narrative.

Example:
If I spend my money, I have less money. Therefore if we all spend our money we will all have less money.

[MachineGhost]

The biggest logical fallacy of them all is that government is a volitional, omniscient entity that can perform actions or think.  It is just a granfalloon.

[Storm]

One of the fallacies that I see all the time in Internet discussions is the ad hominem.  If you can't defeat an argument on its merit, attack the credibility of the author or his references.

This stuff is taught in school but you need to be in debate club or take a government/law class and do mock trials.  We learned about this stuff in high school government/law when we argued mock trials in front of real judges.

[KevinW]

Logic is also taught in college level mathematics and philosophy.

[Benko]

Logic is also taught in college level mathematics and philosophy.

There is a Teaching Company (they find what they consider best college lecturers and sell their lecture sets on auido or CD or DVD) course related to this.  They frequently sell their courses heavily discounted and the ones I've viewed are good.

[l82start]

i took logic in university philosophy,  there is a great podcast that goes with the article/web page linked above, when i get back on my home computer after Christmas i will find it and post. 

logic is one of the fundamental legs of critical thinking (grammar logic rhetoric) its almost criminal it is not taught in grade school and that you wont ever get it unless you take it as a elective or as a small part of a philosophy degree...

[l82start]

i found the link i mentioned.....to the podcast http://www.triviumeducation.com/logic/ the podcast follows the http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ pretty closely i found it helpful to listen and read at the same time..

[MediumTex]

To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, the problem with being reasonable creatures is that we can find a reason to do almost anything.

Reason and logic are not that useful to many people because they aren't looking for much more than a way to validate what they already believe to be true.

I took Logic as an undergraduate and found it quite challenging.  In law school, the methods of analysis and argument are far more intuitive and this is what they mean when the they say "learning to think like a lawyer." 

[MachineGhost]

I took Logic as an undergraduate and found it quite challenging.  In law school, the methods of analysis and argument are far more intuitive and this is what they mean when the they say "learning to think like a lawyer."

What do ya think, should I go to law school?

[Pointedstick]

I took Logic as an undergraduate and found it quite challenging.  In law school, the methods of analysis and argument are far more intuitive and this is what they mean when the they say "learning to think like a lawyer."

What do ya think, should I go to law school?

Do you have a spare $150,000 lying around? 

[MediumTex]

I took Logic as an undergraduate and found it quite challenging.  In law school, the methods of analysis and argument are far more intuitive and this is what they mean when the they say "learning to think like a lawyer."

What do ya think, should I go to law school?

Do you WANT to go to law school?

[Storm]

I think I just found my favorite logical fallacy:  If by whiskey...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If-by-whiskey

[WiseOne]

Don't be too hard on Internet posters.  It's almost impossible for anything posted on the Internet to be 100% correct, even if the author has the best of intentions.  If you ever want to prove this to yourself, write a paper or grant application and send it out for peer review - but be prepared for your ego to take a big hit when you get the reviews back.

It would be great to have a logic/ critical thinking course in high school and college, but I've never seen one.  Much to our detriment.  A method of peer-reviewing Internet articles would be great.  Wikipedia has at least taken a stab at this.

[MachineGhost]

I think I just found my favorite logical fallacy:  If by whiskey...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If-by-whiskey

Hilarious!  I feel so much better for earning under $100k now.  Salut!

[Pointedstick]

I saw this WSJ article and thought it could serve as a good justification for a bit of threadomancy. The article has an excellent, methodical listing and explanation of all the logical fallacies encountered in another article found in a different paper:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopOpinion

[MachineGhost]

Come on!  What an easy target.  Does anyone really expect a victim shot in the head and survived to be emotionally stable and rational?  And a politician, to boot?

[Pointedstick]

Come on!  What an easy target.  Does anyone really expect a victim shot in the head and survived to be emotionally stable and rational?  And a politician, to boot?

Perhaps not, but in that case, what credibility does she have as a "national leader" on the subject? Her words were printed in the New York Times!

[moda0306]

I think I could make one of these lists from the gibberish from any politician, or any business leader for that matter, probably including Thomas Jefferson.

true,true, and i wonder? Thomas Jefferson was educated in the era of classical education when logic was a part of the fundamentals taught, i cant say that it would be impossible to find fallacies in his arguments, but i would guess they are few and far between compared to the non stop fallacious gibberish of modern politicians....