Storing physical gold

[foglifter]

Since I completed my transition to PP 2 years ago my PP gold has been purely in paper form and frankly I don't like this status quo. I read tons of opinions on the Web, but can't come up with a solution I would be comfortable with.
It seems that safe deposit box in the bank is not considered a good idea, but having no backyard to bury gold I feel kind of stuck and a bit scared: where the heck should I keep my gold when I finally make a move and jump into physical gold ownership? Should I use those fake Tide containers, put gold into the freezer, or whatever?

I appreciate if more experienced PPers share their recommendations.

Thanks! 

[6 Iron]

Foglifter, I use safety deposit boxes, and as MediumTex might say, sleep like a 14 year old house cat. There is some risk in every method of owning gold and I try to mitigate this with diversity.

[craigr]

A safe deposit box is a fine way to store the gold. You have a much bigger risk of burglary or relatives/friends/caregivers ripping you off than a bank safe deposit box seizure. IMO.

[foglifter]

I see... I had the same feeling about home storage. BTW does it matter which banks to use? What is the best way to choose a bank for renting a deposit box?  I can't find any comparison sites. 

[MachineGhost]

I appreciate if more experienced PPers share their recommendations.

You need to diversify where your hold your physical gold.  Don't think of it as a black or white situation.  Hold some in the house where thieves will not find it.  Hold some in a safety deposit box.  Hold some in a private vault.  Hold some offshore.  Bury some in PVC pipes.  And so on.

And buy insurance on it all if you don't mind the insurance company knowing the exact locations.

[sophie]

...having no backyard to bury gold I feel kind of stuck and a bit scared: where the heck should I keep my gold when I finally make a move and jump into physical gold ownership? Should I use those fake Tide containers, put gold into the freezer, or whatever?

Putting the bulk of your gold into a safe deposit box is what's generally recommended.  The scary stories on the internet are very much exceptions rather than the rule - that's why they're noteworthy.  You'll need to call or visit local banks to get prices.  Start with the bank where you have your checking/savings accounts, as you may get a break on the price.

That said, it is a good idea to keep some gold at home.  I'm in an apartment also, so the PVC pipe option doesn't apply.  On the other hand, it would be harder for a burglar to get in past the 24 hr front desk.  The safest home storage option is a fireproof, waterproof safe that is too large for thieves to carry away.  That is if you have a place to put one of those (I don't).  Hiding places, though, are not hard to come by.  I suggest doing a casual internet search on the topic and then avoid those options, since they'll be too well known to a professional burglar.  But it'll give you plenty of ideas.

[MediumTex]

If you walk into 500 bank branches in the U.S. at random and ask the branch manager the following questions:

1. How many times have the deposit boxes in your vault been breached by thieves?

2. How many times has the government been in here to confiscate the contents of deposit boxes in your vault?

I think you will find that the answer to both questions is "never".

Safe deposit boxes in the U.S. are very safe, in part because most of the time there isn't much of value in them.  Think about it: if you were a thief wanting to crack a vault open, would you target a bank branch in a suburb where most of the bank's customers are leveraged to the hilt and don't have much of value to store in the first place?  I wouldn't.

[craigr]

If you walk into 500 bank branches in the U.S. at random and ask the branch manager the following questions:

1. How many times have the deposit boxes in your vault been breached by thieves?

2. How many times has the government been in here to confiscate the contents of deposit boxes in your vault?

I think you will find that the answer to both questions is "never".

Safe deposit boxes in the U.S. are very safe, in part because most of the time there isn't much of value in them.  Think about it: if you were a thief wanting to crack a vault open, would you target a bank branch in a suburb where most of the bank's customers are leveraged to the hilt and don't have much of value to store in the first place?  I wouldn't.

Not to mention the fact that the bank alarm system is going to get the absolute fastest response from the police in the event of a problem. Home burglary alarm system? In many places you'll be lucky if it's within an hour. In many cities it may not even be responded to at all.

But if someone wanted to keep some gold hidden at home I wouldn't fault them. I just wouldn't expect it to be any safer than a bank. It just has different risks. For many, a hybrid approach may be used especially when you consider how cheap a safe deposit box is with a checking account at most banks (may even be free).

[Ad Orientem]

A safe deposit box in a bank is the best way to store gold 98% of the time. Home storage is always high risk. I don't care where you hide it, or how many dogs with big teeth you have or if you keep loaded firearms in every room of the house including next to the crapper. The only exception I can think of off hand would be for the very wealthy where you might be holding your gold in bars. In which case an allocated storage account might be better. I will however suggest splitting your gold between two boxes at different branches if you have a significant quantity. But Craig is right. Bank robbery is extremely rare these days and when it does happen safe deposit boxes are not targeted.

[foglifter]

Thank you all for your input, I really appreciate your help!  I hope this thread will be helpful for others too.

[Bean]

If I had not lost all of my physical in a terrible boating accident, I would diversify my storage locations as much as possible.  With each location you need to weigh its ease of access for you, lack of access for others, and protection from the unknown.

[foglifter]

If I had not lost all of my physical in a terrible boating accident, I would diversify my storage locations as much as possible.  With each location you need to weigh its ease of access for you, lack of access for others, and protection from the unknown.

Wow, that sounds really scary!

[Lone Wolf]

Safe deposit boxes in the U.S. are very safe, in part because most of the time there isn't much of value in them.  Think about it: if you were a thief wanting to crack a vault open, would you target a bank branch in a suburb where most of the bank's customers are leveraged to the hilt and don't have much of value to store in the first place?  I wouldn't.

That's right.  It doesn't make much sense to execute an ultra-risky heist that will net you a couple of car titles, a few ounces of dusty family jewelry, some wills, and a huge pile of birth certificates.

If I had not lost all of my physical in a terrible boating accident, I would diversify my storage locations as much as possible.

  Do you have any desire at all to talk more about this?  What happened?

[dualstow]

That's right.  It doesn't make much sense to execute an ultra-risky heist that will net you a couple of car titles, a few ounces of dusty family jewelry, some wills, and a huge pile of birth certificates.

Remember this? http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... ic.php?t=8 (Economists on bank robbing)
Even a conventional, non-safety-deposit-box related heist seems like a long walk for a small drink of water (at a dangerous watering hole). Of course, sometimes people are desperate.

Add me to the list of people who are curious about gold on a boat.

[Pointedstick]

The boat thing is an internet meme from the gun community, I believe. "…but I lost all my guns in a terrible boating accident" is often added as a CYA line for people paranoid that the fuzz may be reading, or wishing to poke fun at those folks

[MediumTex]

The boat thing is an internet meme from the gun community, I believe. "…but I lost all my guns in a terrible boating accident" is often added as a CYA line for people paranoid that the fuzz may be reading, or wishing to poke fun at those folks

I thought maybe he was a pirate.

[Bean]

The boat thing is an internet meme from the gun community, I believe. "…but I lost all my guns in a terrible boating accident" is often added as a CYA line for people paranoid that the fuzz may be reading, or wishing to poke fun at those folks

^ This  and my way of getting at the importance of discretion to keep yourself from being a target of opportunity.

[dualstow]

The boat thing is an internet meme from the gun community, I believe. "…but I lost all my guns in a terrible boating accident" is often added as a CYA line for people paranoid that the fuzz may be reading, or wishing to poke fun at those folks

Ahhh

[Lone Wolf]

If I had not lost all of my physical in a terrible boating accident, I would diversify my storage locations as much as possible.  With each location you need to weigh its ease of access for you, lack of access for others, and protection from the unknown.

The boat thing is an internet meme from the gun community, I believe. "…but I lost all my guns in a terrible boating accident" is often added as a CYA line for people paranoid that the fuzz may be reading, or wishing to poke fun at those folks

^ This  and my way of getting at the importance of discretion to keep yourself from being a target of opportunity.

Ha ha... apparently, I will believe anything!

In fact, only moments ago I was preparing to send out invites to everyone for the First Annual Permanent Portfolio Scuba Diving Expedition.  Location: Coincidentally, wherever bean's pirate ship ran aground. 

[smurff]

Thought it would be good to revisit this topic now.  I've been looking at videos I could not see when we had no power, and there's something about seeing some houses washed away, others slid off their foundations, to convince me of one thing:  geographic diversity is important, even if you can only do it on a micro scale.

In other words, don't keep all your physical gold at home, even if it's stored underground in a safe. Different regions have to deal with different types of disasters.  A tornado or earthquake or hurricane or firestorm or flash flood can wash it out to sea, wash it into the river, blow it into the lake, bury it under enough rubble to keep you away from it for years.  The chance of it happening to a specific individual is very small, but it does happen often enough to people and their stuff that it's a good idea to tske precautions.  As I watched videos I wondered how much precious metal jewelry washed away along with family photos.

For starters I'd make copies (paper and electronic) of important documents, exemplars of financial statements, a selection of family photos, heirloom paperwork (grampa's army discharge papers, for example)--just take it all to your local drugstore and duplicate it, then scan it all on files.  Spread the copies around to other family members. Keep some in disaster-resistant safe deposit boxes.


Put a portion of it in a safe deposit box at a secure, storm-resistant facility. That does not always have to be a bank.

[Ad Orientem]

Home storage of gold is almost always high risk.

[Pointedstick]

For starters I'd make copies (paper and electronic) of important documents, exemplars of financial statements, a selection of family photos, heirloom paperwork (grampa's army discharge papers, for example)--just take it all to your local drugstore and duplicate it, then scan it all on files.  Spread the copies around to other family members. Keep some in disaster-resistant safe deposit boxes.

http://theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/kle ... /0006.html

For the more tech-savvy, I recommend scanning everything important, storing it on an encrypted truecrypt volume, and keeping copies of the truecrypt archive on your computer, in Dropbox, and on a flash drive you carry around with you.

[smurff]

Sorry about that last paragraph. I'm using an obsolete iPod with no way to scroll and edit. The last paragraph should be:

Put a portion of your gold into a secure, storm and disaster-resistant facility. That does not necessarily mean it has to be a commercial bank, but a bank safe deposit box is a good option.

Remember the MediumTex and craigr favorite phrase in the book:  don't outsmart yourself. That is, don't throw away a sound solution to a problem because you have run enough mental algorithms to conclude it's not perfect.

[BearBones]

Insuring physical gold has come up a number of times, but it looks like the majority of us do not do it.
http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... ic.php?t=0
http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... 4#msg39934

[smurff]

http://theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/kle ... /0006.html

For the more tech-savvy, I recommend scanning everything important, storing it on an encrypted truecrypt volume, and keeping copies of the truecrypt archive on your computer, in Dropbox, and on a flash drive you carry around with you.

Thanks for the link.  I like the blogger's attitude:  rather than worry about SHTF,  have your S together before it HTF.