Gold Eagles/Buffalos safest coins to buy?

[FarmerD]

I don't believe I've seen this discussed on this forum. 

In Craig's Gold FAQ, he recommends buying Eagles, Maples or Krugerrands.  I'm thinking American Gold Eagles and Buffalos may be the safest coins to purchase (if you're an American).  If you buy Eagles/Buffalos from one of the online dealers and you wind up getting a counterfeit coin, think about the repercussions.

Eagles and Buffalos are legal tender coins made by a US mint.  Gold dealers explicitly state these coins are US mint legal tender coins on their websites.  Selling or trafficking in counterfeit coins I believe is a felony and sending through the US postal service is mail fraud.  If one of the online dealers sold even one bad coin and it was found out, I'd imagine they'd have armed Secret Service or Treasury Dept people rolling into their front offices within days.  (Assuming the Secret Service guys aren't too busy with the ladies)

On the other hand, if a dealer sold counterfeit Maples or Krugerrands I don't know if the govt would show the same concern. I'm not even sure which enforcement agency would try to prosecute this.  Perhaps one of the attorney's here could answer.

Since the buy/sell spreads are basically the same for all the main coins (Eagles, Buffalos, Krugerrands, Maples) why not just the Eagles/Buffalos? 

Of course, I could just be paranoid. 

[Gumby]

I've never held a Maple before, but the Eagles would be pretty difficult to counterfeit. They have extremely beautiful and detailed markings on them. They are works of art. The Krugerrands don't seem to have as much detail on them but they would still be difficult to counterfeit.

I really don't worry about counterfeiting of coins too much when you check the proper measurements with a tool, such as the Fisch...

The Fisch is a precision made instrument that checks the vital measurements of a specific coin: These are the minimum allowable weight, maximum allowable thickness, maximum allowable diameter and the shape as specified by the issuing mint.

Metals with a density comparable to gold that could be used to make a fake coin correct in both weight and size are the platinum group metals and tungsten. The price of the platinum group metals precludes their use. Tungsten is an extremely hard, yet brittle metal that would be very difficult to work into a passable fake. No tungsten based fakes of the correct specifications have been reported.

The only metals of sufficient density that could be used to make a fake platinum coin of the correct specifications are osmium and iridium. Produced in small quantities as a by-product of platinum, they are extremely hard, brittle metals which crumble to a powder if worked cold. They are both expensive and hard to obtain.
Source: http://www.fisch.co.za/principle.html

It's highly unlikely that anyone would go through the trouble of creating a counterfeit coin that satisfies all of the elemental and physical properties of gold and has the detailed markings of an Eagle or Krugerrand.

So, bullion coins in general are quite safe as long as you have an ability to check their weight, size and thickness. Far safer than an ingot which could have counterfeit cores or shaved off edges and requires regular testing/authentication.

[MediumTex]

I've never held a Maple before, but the Eagles would be pretty difficult to counterfeit. They have extremely beautiful and detailed markings on them. They are works of art. The Krugerrands don't seem to have as much detail on them but they would still be difficult to counterfeit.

I agree.  When you hold the three coins in your hand, it's very obvious that the eagle would be by far the hardest to counterfeit.  It's really a beautiful and incredibly detailed coin.

As for the buffalo coin, I don't like the 24 karat gold that much because it is so easy to scratch and scuff, plus the buffalo coin is a much smaller market than eagles and less well known than eagles.  It is also IMHO not as attractive as the eagle coin.

[steve]

I know that Gold Eagles are the most recommended coin to buy and they usually have a higher premium. Pamp 1 0z gold bars and Credit Suisse gold bullion bars have a lower premium and If you buy from a legitimate dealer should be safe in my opinion, The gold dealers I spoke with told me that gold dealers around the world are very familiar with these bars and are very easy to trade. They are 24 karat and usually come sealed and assayed for protection. They are very beautiful. The fact that they are sealed may make it harder to sell privately because they are sealed but gold dealers have no problem buying or selling them sealed or unsealed. The seal protects them from scratching. I think that if they are purchased from a reputable dealer and you keep the receipt they should be ok for core gold holding.

[Ad Orientem]

A good rule of thumb is that the smaller the coin/bar the harder it is to counterfeit.  It is also much higher risk for the would be counterfeiter with a bad risk reward ratio. I'm not going to say coins are never the object of counterfeiting, but I can't remember any instances of it.  To the extent you need to worry about it, it is likely with your bigger bars.

That said coins are more expensive than bars.  If you aren't buying the gold for aesthetic reasons I would be very comfortable with small bars in the 1-5 oz. range.  I wouldn't go bigger than that though unless you are wealthy and buying in bulk.  But be very sure you are buying from a reputable dealer and the bars have been tested and certified for their purity.

As for legal issues, counterfeiting gold bars or coins is a criminal offense under numerous statutes, both Federal and state. Fraud, wire and securities fraud, as well as securities and exchange regulations could all come into play.

[AdamA]

That said coins are more expensive than bars.  If you aren't buying the gold for aesthetic reasons I would be very comfortable with small bars in the 1-5 oz. range.  I wouldn't go bigger than that though unless you are wealthy and buying in bulk.  But be very sure you are buying from a reputable dealer and the bars have been tested and certified for their purity.

I don't have any first hand experience with bars, but have heard that dealers with frequently make you pay for an assay when you sell them to prove they're real.

[Tortoise]

I prefer Gold Dubyas, myself.

[Ad Orientem]

I prefer Gold Dubyas, myself.

You owe me a new key board.

[steve]

That said coins are more expensive than bars.  If you aren't buying the gold for aesthetic reasons I would be very comfortable with small bars in the 1-5 oz. range.  I wouldn't go bigger than that though unless you are wealthy and buying in bulk.  But be very sure you are buying from a reputable dealer and the bars have been tested and certified for their purity.

I don't have any first hand experience with bars, but have heard that dealers with frequently make you pay for an assay when you sell them to prove they're real.

I know that my local dealer will buy Pamp bars without  re assay for spot or more depending on inventory. I also contacted APEX for research purposes and they told me that they buy sealed bars without re assay for spot or more depending on their inventory they also said that they buy back unsealed bars but consider them un assayed  for $5 under spot. APEX would also make you pay the shipping .  No shipping or insurance if using a  local dealer.

[dualstow]

I got myself one of those coin testers (the balance), so Maples are ok, too.

I have been meaning to ask why Buffalos are so seldom mentioned, relative to Eagles.
Krugs, too. In fact, they're all I own, except for a special collectible Buffalo.

[FarmerD]

I got myself one of those coin testers (the balance), so Maples are ok, too.

I have been meaning to ask why Buffalos are so seldom mentioned, relative to Eagles.
Krugs, too. In fact, they're all I own, except for a special collectible Buffalo.

Normally over the past year, Eagles sell for slightly more than Buffalos and re-sell for slightly more as well.  There were some really good deals a couple months ago when buffalos sold for $49 over spot so I loaded up on them.  Probably 2/3 of my coin collection is Buffalos.

I seem to be alone here but I think the Buffalo is a much prettier coin than the eagle.  To my eye the detail on the buffalo and Indian head obverse is way more intricate than the details on the eagle. 

[ozzy]

I only own Buffalos.  I prefer 24K pure gold.  I keep each in a plastic case so they stay scratch-free.

[l82start]

personally i am fond of the maple, i like the design and the 99.9 pure gold, i keep them "reasonably" well wrapped and i don't play with them so i don't worry about scratches much either. 

[shoestring]

Enlighten me oh golden ones.  The value of gold for PP purposes is its melt value yes?  American currency is illegal to melt down.  Ergo in theoretical terms it is worth only its face value yes?

Now I understand not everyone cares about legality but if you do it seems more prudent to get bars or foreign currency for gold.  It would seem the value of US gold coins is purely numistatic.

[Ad Orientem]

Enlighten me oh golden ones.  The value of gold for PP purposes is its melt value yes?  American currency is illegal to melt down.  Ergo in theoretical terms it is worth only its face value yes?

Now I understand not everyone cares about legality but if you do it seems more prudent to get bars or foreign currency for gold.  It would seem the value of US gold coins is purely numistatic.

I am not a lawyer so I remain open to correction, but I believe the law only prohibits the melting of pennies and nickels.  The Feds also put restrictions on how much loose change (again pennies and nickels) you can carry out of the country to prevent people from melting those undervalued coins overseas.  The law does not preclude shipping gold in any form out of the country. In any case gold is gold irrespective of its shape.  And a coin or any form of currency is worth what the market says it's worth.  Any coin that says it's worth $50.00 but is made of 1 oz of 99.9% gold is worth a hell of a lot more than $50.00.  If you doubt that please feel free to send me any 1 oz Gold Eagles or Buffalo's you have and I will happily pay you face value plus shipping.

[moda0306]

I think the idea of gold's real value being its melt value probably goes back to the way I used to view the "real" value of gold... purely industrial or useless.

I always made the argument (and still feel this way to some small degree), that the value of the metal should be based on some real usage, not just some collector's value making it the investment equivalent of a Mickey Mantle rookie card.

Though, who knows, maybe this is another sub-hedge worth considering.  

The idea of a gov't issued gold coin with a uber-low face value and laws surrounding its use seems so counterintuitive to me, not only in the principal of its existance and th reason to hold gold, but as part of the PP.  I mean here we are, students of a staunch libertarian, putting 50% of our portfolios in gov't securities, and then building another 25% of our portfolios around a gov't issued coin dictating to us not to deface it.

Not saying anything other than it seems utterly asinine on its face if you didn't know how to put it all in context.

There is a nice put-option built into those things, though... if a gold coin falls below the coins face value, one can redeem it for the higher face value!  Now if only they made them like i-bonds, where they sell them at face value and they can only go up... that would be something.