RV Living for Fun and Adventure

[MediumTex]

In the past, we have touched on living in an RV as a way to save money, bug out, adopt a more flexible living arrangement, etc.

I wanted to share my experiences in this area.

I purchased a 25 foot 5th wheel trailer in 1996 for $6,500.  It was about 10 years old at the time and had been well cared for (I sold it a few years later for $4,000).  I initially bought it just for camping.  However, in 1997 I decided to return to law school on a part-time basis in a city that was 200 miles from where I lived.  It occurred to me that I could take my trailer down there and find a cheap place to park it and use it as a place to stay while I was in town attending class (which I did two days a week).  I did this for about a year and it was great.

In 1998 I decided to sell my house and rather than buying another one immediately I thought I would live in my RV for a few months just to see what it was like to have that as my primary residence.  I lived that way for about 8 months before getting an apartment in the same complex as my then-girlfriend, now-wife.

Here are a few reflections on the experience, in no particular order:

- It is an immensely simple way of life.  No yard to mow, very little maintenance to perform, cleaning takes 5 minutes, and it's cozy and comfortable.

- This lifestyle is best-suited to a younger single person or an older couple.  It's not something I would suggest with children, other than for a short period. 

- If you are a single person hoping to attract desirable members of the opposite sex, living in an RV will often make it more difficult.  It's a complicated story to fully understand, and some people will look at what you are doing and see someone who looks poor and/or desperate (when often just the opposite it true).

- It's a cheap way of living.  RVs can be purchased very cheaply, used for a while and sold for only a little less than you paid.  Renting a spot in a park is probably in the $200-$400 range and utilities are very cheap.  Normally, water and cable will be included in the rental, while your electricity will be metered.  Cell phones have eliminated the need for a land line, so that shouldn't be an extra expense.

- You do need to own a truck or SUV capable of pulling your trailer.  This means you are signing up to drive a vehicle that gets much worse mileage than you might otherwise choose to drive, which reduces the efficiency of the overall lifestyle.

- Your friends and family are unlikely to fully understand.  They will search for some reference case in their own experience, and they are likely only to find people who lived like this because they HAD to, rather than because they WANTED to.

- Your neighbors will often not be as interesting as you want them to be.  Some of them will be undesirable, in part because living in an RV really is the best they can do.  You will encounter dull minds and drinking as a form of therapy, rather than entertainment.

- You will question your decision from time to time.  You will wonder if you made a mistake.

- You will occasionally feel a rush of freedom that few of us experience very often.  I used to look at my trailer and think to myself "I am unlikely to own my home free and clear like this again for a long time."  Among other very appealing aspects of owning your own home in this way, it is free of any governmental tax liabilities.  You are paying some kind of property tax when you rent a parking space, but it's tiny compared to the property tax liability accompanying fixed dwellings.

- The value of your RV is overlooked by most people.  Part of the reason the value of RVs is overlooked is that most people use them infrequently and don't appreciate that they really are a second home.  It's hard to imagine anyone suing you to gain possession of your 10 year old RV.

- You will get into all sorts of small improvement projects on your RV, including insulation, solar power, other types of power generation, plumbing improvements, etc.  RVs are very tinkerer-friendly (unlike the PP).

- Even if you don't choose to live in your RV on a full-time basis, RVs are still very versatile tools.  For example, you can park your RV at a lake and you have a lake house.  You can park your RV at a deer lease and you have a hunting lodge.  If you are a student you can park your RV near campus and you have a dorm.  You can park your RV near a business opportunity and you have a mobile office (many traveling salesmen and tradespeople use this approach).  If there is a natural (or man-made) disaster an RV can provide temporary shelter that would otherwise be hard to find.

- Overall, it is a lot of fun.  It's that rare opportunity to really step outside of the system for a bit without having to become a hermit.  Like the PP, though, expect to encounter challenges in effectively explaining it to others.

[Gosso]

In my early 20's I seriously considered doing this.  The freedom and simplicity would be wonderful.  I talked myself out of it, by using the two points below:

- If you are a single person hoping to attract desirable members of the opposite sex, living in an RV will often make it more difficult.  It's a complicated story to fully understand, and some people will look at what you are doing and see someone who looks poor and/or desperate (when often just the opposite it true).

- Your neighbors will often not be as interesting as you want them to be.  Some of them will be undesirable, in part because living in an RV really is the best they can do.  You will encounter dull minds and drinking as a form of therapy, rather than entertainment.

Another complication is winter -- I don't believe RV parks would be open in Canada during the winter (at least outside of British Columbia).

Instead I decided I'd go with cheap apartments and basement rooms.  It's more difficult to connect with nature, and they repel females just as well as an RV, but it works well enough.  Lately I have grown tired of this lifestyle and will likely be looking to "up my game" -- I need to become an "adult" at some point. 

[TripleB]

I thought this might be interesting until I dug into a few numbers.

Rather than $200 to $400/month for an RV space, the numbers I've seen are closer to $400 to $600. I can get an apartment for $600/month in cheap areas of the country.

The gas mileage is around 10 MPG for an RV. At $4/gallon, that makes it really expensive to do anything.

I like the idea of tinkering, but tinkering costs money. i.e. adding insulation, etc. With the numbers already running close to a cheap 1 bedroom apartment, this pushes the limit to unfeasible.

Firearm ownership will be difficult due to the inability to seriously secure any firearms within the RV.

I'd probably really hate living next to the people who live in an RV park, as MT described.

I'd have to put a bunch of my stuff in storage such as business clothes and tools. These are things that I "need" to own and can't part with, even if I simplify down, it still won't all fit in the RV. At $50 to $100/month for a storage facility, that starts to push the levels of cost feasibility.

The cost of the RV needs to be counted into the calculation. Even at $10k for a low-end RV, if all I can save is $100 to $200/month (on a good estimate) from having a small 1 bedroom apartment, it would take me a long time to break even from the initial expense.

At the end of the day, a more feasible option seems to be living in a cheap 1 bedroom apartment. If gas drops below $2/gallon and monthly RV spots can be found for $200/month then it might become feasible again. From what I've researched, it cannot be done more cheaply than I currently live.

[stone]

Apparently the creme de la creme of the celebrity world come from trailer parks:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fe ... homes.html

  As a child, actor Jim Carrey lived on a trailer park in Ontario, Canada, for a while; Growing up, actress Demi Moore lived on dozens of trailer parks in the south of the US; Britain's Got Talent finalist Michael Collings currently lives in a trailer park in Plymouth; The Baywatch beauty Pamela Anderson moved to a trailer in '08 while her house was renovated..... Ex-Corrie star Bruce Jones ended up living in a caravan in Rhyl, North Wales; Actor Ryan Gosling used to live on the Yogi Bear trailer park in Orlando, Florida; Oscar-winning actress Hilary Swank was raised on a Washington trailer park; Rap singer Eminem spent some of his childhood living on a trailer park in Detroit

The only person I know who lived on a trailer park bought his trailer for £150 I think but it was very very basic. The other people on his trailer park were gypsies. I got the impression that he liked living there. I guess there is a massive range in what trailer parks are like - ranging from ultra respectable retirement colonies to fairly wild places like where he lived with lots of dogs and kids running around and scrap metal etc.

[MediumTex]

One very cheap way of living is to purchase a lake lot in an older lakeside RV community at a tax lien auction.  Lots in these situations can often be had for the amount of the unpaid taxes (perhaps $1,000-$2,000).  I am talking about parts of Texas here.

After you have purchased it, your only expenses are going to be annual property taxes (perhaps $100-$200 per year) and community dues (perhaps $200-$300 per year).  If you put a $5,000 RV on such a lot you could have a nice setup for very little money.

[Tortoise]

I decided I'd go with cheap apartments and basement rooms.  It's more difficult to connect with nature, and they repel females just as well as an RV, but it works well enough.  Lately I have grown tired of this lifestyle and will likely be looking to "up my game" -- I need to become an "adult" at some point.

Certainly a man living with his parents is a turn-off for most women since it indicates a lack of independence (either financial or psychological).

But I would argue that as long as you live independently, keep your living space clean and organized, and demonstrate responsibility and some level of motivation/achievement, the only women who are going to be turned off by your humble abode are (a) gold-diggers and (b) women who don't like you much to begin with.

A truly loyal woman who's smitten will rob banks for you. If you filter out some lesser women by living in an unusually modest apartment or even an RV, I say good riddance to them. You're better off with a woman who would follow you to the ends of the earth and even take a bullet for you. Believe it or not, such women do exist.

[MediumTex]

A truly loyal woman who's smitten will rob banks for you. If you filter out some lesser women by living in an unusually modest apartment or even an RV, I say good riddance to them. You're better off with a woman who would follow you to the ends of the earth and even take a bullet for you. Believe it or not, such women do exist.

I'm waiting for a match.com commercial with a redneck-looking couple and the man is saying "I always knew there was someone out there for me.  I always dreamed of a woman who could cut bait, set hooks AND clean the catch.  I never thought I would find her, though.  A lot of women can do one or two, but it's a rare woman who can do all three.  I couldn't be happier."  As he says this he looks into her eyes.  She starts to get a little misty as she says to him: "You're a real catch too, you know."  And then they kiss.

I think that when it comes to mating today, people are so eager to make themselves look appealing to the opposite sex, they often lose a lot of what makes them interesting.

There is also a great difference between a woman who wouldn't mind spending time with a man who lived in an RV, and a woman who would like to live in an RV herself.

[AdamA]

There is also a great difference between a woman who wouldn't mind spending time with a man who lived in an RV, and a woman who would like to live in an RV herself.

Is this a good or bad difference? 

[MediumTex]

There is also a great difference between a woman who wouldn't mind spending time with a man who lived in an RV, and a woman who would like to live in an RV herself.

Is this a good or bad difference?   ;D

I was just pointing out that the latter group is probably a lot smaller than the former group.  It all works out, though--my wife spent time with me and I now live in a house with her rather than her living in an RV with me. 

When I was dating my wife she drove a new Lexus and I used to get a kick out of seeing it parked by my trailer in the RV park.  She always entered the RV like she was getting into a ride at an amusement park.  She must have really liked me.

[TripleB]

MT: I'd love to hear more about this $1k to $2k lot deals. It might even be worth it to amass a few of them around the country if the price is right.

[MediumTex]

MT: I'd love to hear more about this $1k to $2k lot deals. It might even be worth it to amass a few of them around the country if the price is right.

It's not a good investment.  These lots are normally in areas that flood more than they should and people typically don't want to buy them.

[TripleB]

MT: I'd love to hear more about this $1k to $2k lot deals. It might even be worth it to amass a few of them around the country if the price is right.

It's not a good investment.  These lots are normally in areas that flood more than they should and people typically don't want to buy them.

In other words, the market has fairly priced these lots at $1k

Could I buy a $1k piece of land (from tax lien) somewhere in Texas, put a trailer on it, that I put on top of an especially high foundation to resist flooding, and then live for $500/year in tax/fees?

If I can get my monthly living costs down to $200/month I can retire now. The best I can do right now is around $600/month in an apartment.

[MediumTex]

MT: I'd love to hear more about this $1k to $2k lot deals. It might even be worth it to amass a few of them around the country if the price is right.

It's not a good investment.  These lots are normally in areas that flood more than they should and people typically don't want to buy them.

In other words, the market has fairly priced these lots at $1k

Could I buy a $1k piece of land (from tax lien) somewhere in Texas, put a trailer on it, that I put on top of an especially high foundation to resist flooding, and then live for $500/year in tax/fees?

If I can get my monthly living costs down to $200/month I can retire now. The best I can do right now is around $600/month in an apartment.

I'm sure you could, but living in a rural area among a bunch of hillbillies might not be much of a retirement if what you are accustomed to is a lot different from that.

Below is an Ebay listing for a 5 acre west Texas tract for $1,500.00 in one of the most remote parts of the United States.  It looks like you've got dues of $150 per year and taxes of $40 and you can do whatever you want with the land, including put an RV on it.  It's near Big Bend National Park.  The stargazing out there would be great.

LINK

[stone]

  It's near Big Bend National Park.  The stargazing out there would be great.

I can still remember star gazing near Big Bend National Park over thirty years ago. It is totally awesome. To my mind the lack of a dark night sky is one of the great losses of modernity. You would also get to go to sleep to the sound of coyotes howling.

The University of Texas actually campaigns to reclaim dark skys for everyone's enjoyment:
http://mcdonaldobservatory.org/darkskies

[stone]

About women aledgedly not liking cheap stuff- is there some truth in the idea that say 1% of men like cheap stuff and 1% of women like cheap stuff so the chance of a couple both liking cheap stuff is 0.01% ? Perhaps if it especially mattered  having a partner who also liked living like that and you were currently single, it would make sense to meet up with people who had already choosen to live like that?
If you believe UK TV, then any money saved by not living in a house could be spent on an outlandish wedding:
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/big- ... y-weddings

Revealing documentary series that offers a window into the secretive, extravagant and surprising world of gypsies and travellers in Britain today

[MediumTex]

  It's near Big Bend National Park.  The stargazing out there would be great.

I can still remember star gazing near Big Bend National Park over thirty years ago. It is totally awesome. To my mind the lack of a dark night sky is one of the great losses of modernity. You would also get to go to sleep to the sound of coyotes howling.

The University of Texas actually campaigns to reclaim dark skys for everyone's enjoyment:
http://mcdonaldobservatory.org/darkskies

stone,

You've been to west Texas?  I'm impressed.  What led you there if you started somewhere in the UK?

[stone]

Medium Tex, I was nine years old, we all lived in Austin for a year because my dad was working there for a year. When we were living in Austin, we spent two holidays in Big Bend National Park. We also visited that Davis observatory because a family friend was in the University of Texas astronomy department.

Funnily enough, amongst the people I socialize with here in the UK, I feel like I'm about the only person who doesn't regularly go to west Texas. Heuco Tanks in west Texas is a very popular  rock climbing venue but I only go climbing near my house because my better half isn't a climber and I like having vacations together.

[MediumTex]

stone,

Thanks for sharing that background.  Very interesting. 

I was born in west Texas and grew up out there. 

I love looking at a satellite image of the U.S. at night and you can see where all the population centers are by the lights.  West Texas is one of the larget uninterrupted dark spot in the 48 states.  It's a vast place.

[MediumTex]

The other night satellite photo I think is great is of North and South Korea.

I'll bet the star gazing in North Korea is awesome (if you can get the boot off your face long enough to look up):

[Gosso]

I decided I'd go with cheap apartments and basement rooms.  It's more difficult to connect with nature, and they repel females just as well as an RV, but it works well enough.  Lately I have grown tired of this lifestyle and will likely be looking to "up my game" -- I need to become an "adult" at some point.

Certainly a man living with his parents is a turn-off for most women since it indicates a lack of independence (either financial or psychological).

But I would argue that as long as you live independently, keep your living space clean and organized, and demonstrate responsibility and some level of motivation/achievement, the only women who are going to be turned off by your humble abode are (a) gold-diggers and (b) women who don't like you much to begin with.

A truly loyal woman who's smitten will rob banks for you. If you filter out some lesser women by living in an unusually modest apartment or even an RV, I say good riddance to them. You're better off with a woman who would follow you to the ends of the earth and even take a bullet for you. Believe it or not, such women do exist.

Looking at it from the bright side my cheap lifestyle has likely saved me from an unhealthy relationship/marriage.  In all honesty I am quite terrified of marriage since I have been surrounded by poor marriages and have grown up in an era of a high divorce rate.  To me the whole idea of marriage seems rather silly and I have a feeling many people in my generation feel the same way.  Although it is possible I have been watching too much Sam Kinison.  Warning: contains many f-bombs, but here's Sam's take on marriage (3:07). 

http://youtu.be/9GXPd0fnpKw

I have been reading Joe Campbell lately and he has a wonderful section on his thoughts on marriage:

When people get married because they think it's a long-time love affair, they'll be divorced very soon, because all love affaris end in disappointment.  But marriage is recognition of a spiritual identity.  If we live a proper life, if our minds are on the right qualities in regarding the person of the opposite sex, we will find our proper male or female counterpart.  But if we are distracted by certain sensuous interests, we'll marry the wrong person.  By marrying the right person, we reconstruct the image of the incarnate God, and that's what marriage is.
Source: Campbell, Joe; The Power of Myth; page 6.

Holy Moly!  That was a swift kick in the pants!  It seems marriage will be the next great adventure that I'll need to undertake...just got to find the right lady to join me.

***

Regarding star gazing, does anyone else find it trippy that when looking up at the night sky that you are actually looking back in time -- it is very likely a few of these stars have collapsed in "real" time, but we won't know about it for several centuries/millenia.

[stone]

gosso

Regarding star gazing, does anyone else find it trippy that when looking up at the night sky that you are actually looking back in time -- it is very likely a few of these stars have collapsed in "real" time, but we won't know about it for several centuries/millenia.

If we could "see" in the microwave spectrum then we could see the big bang happening in the distance in every direction. Far out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_mic ... _radiation

[Gosso]

gosso

Regarding star gazing, does anyone else find it trippy that when looking up at the night sky that you are actually looking back in time -- it is very likely a few of these stars have collapsed in "real" time, but we won't know about it for several centuries/millenia.

If we could "see" in the microwave spectrum then we could see the big bang happening in the distance in every direction. Far out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_mic ... _radiation

MIND BLOWN!

[Coffee]

There's a huge opportunity cost to living in an RV: Most notably, how much time you need to spend doing laundry in a laundromat.  That alone is a deal-killer for me.

Secondly: Old RV's are typically maintenance nightmares. Unless you're MacGuyver -- good luck saving money.

[shoestring]

Thanks for this thread, I have considered trying alternative living situations like RVs, trailers, tiny houses etc. as a way to save money, but ultimately I keep coming back to the idea it's best to just keep renting my apartment and saving money for a house at some point.

[moda0306]

stone,

Regarding "cheap stuff," HB would point out that people with common values & interests naturally gravitate towards each other, and one shouldn't look at how unique they are as a problem, because it's likely that there's somebody of the opposite sex in a similar situation with VERY little demand for her values/personality, making her much more available to you... thus the numbers aren't as important as the supply/demand matchup.

However, an inexpensive, funny, smart, loyal, insanely attractive woman is likely to be on every man's short list, so don't go taking this too far when setting standards  .