What skills to learn to improve career options?

[rhymenocerous]

This is somewhat of a random post, but I graduated from college in 2008, and after having worked for 3.5 years am starting to think about how to direct my career.  I've been with the same company since I graduated and want to make sure I'm well-positioned to advance in the future.  These are my current skills as they stand.  I graduated with a degree in English, but I was originally going to be a Math major.  I've taken classes like multi-variable calc, analysis, linear algebra, probability, and number theory, but I had some difficulty as I progressed into the more theoretical classes, so I decided to drop the major.  From there I started to focus on Computer Science, but it was not really feasible to finish the major in the amount of time I had left, so I chose English since I had been taking some lit classes already and could finish in time.  For CS, I've only taken an intro class in Java, a Data Structures class, and a Cryptography class, so I'm familiar with some of the basic practices of writing code, but I can't really develop software.  I took no kind of accounting or econ classes while I was in school.

After I graduated, I went to work at a publishing company in a kind of client management role.  I did this for about two years, and then was able to switch within the same company to a finance role.  Technically, I'm part of the Financial Planning & Analysis department, but my role is kind of separate from that.  I don't do any kind of accounting work.  I mostly handle financial valuations (not of companies though), thinking about risk, creating financial models, contract negotiation, etc.  It's more strategic, which is why I like it.  I don't really work with analyzing budgets and doing variance analysis, although some of my colleagues do.

I'm trying to think about the future and how best I can leverage my skill set.  Many senior type finance roles usually want a Finance degree or at least some accounting experience, of which I have none.  I'm interested in the kind of work/problem-solving that management consultants do, though I'm not really interested in the lifestyle with the long work hours and constant travel.  I think I would like to work for a single company doing some kind of corporate development and business analysis, where you think about the overall financial strategy of how to make a company profitable, whether through acquisitions or developing new products, etc.  Unfortunately, I think many of the people who end up in these positions are ex-investment bankers or consultants.  How do you think I should develop my skills to be able to move into this area?  Should I spend two years as a management consultant to get some experience in a wide variety of industries?  Should I read up more on Financial Management, Statistics, and Econ in my spare time?  Should I learn new skills like how to program in SQL, PHP, R, or SAS?  Should I go back to school, either part-time or full-time, for an MBA?

Thanks for your help.

[MediumTex]

Learn to sell.

[Tortoise]

I think it's great that you're asking these questions, rhymenocerous. I finished up with school just a few years before you did (2005). I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I want my career path to be, and it's painful and frustrating at times.

Find as many people as you can who have your dream job, and get to know them. Offer to buy them lunch and say you'd like to ask them a few questions about their career path.

The people who currently do what you dream of doing someday are probably the best ones for you to emulate. Network with these people. Spend a little bit of time with them outside of work to see what kind of people they are. If you can take one of them on as a mentor, even better.

And if it turns out that obtaining some more advanced education turns out to be part of your overall career plan, I strongly recommend doing it before you get married. Many people still go back to school when they're married, but it's harder.

[KevinW]

"Micro-politics." My umbrella term for salesmanship (already mentioned), sensing motives, getting people to like you, dealing with jerks cordially, tasteful self-promotion, standing up for yourself without drama, etc.

[patrickjhall]

Learn to sell.

Seconded. It seems complicated. Its not.

[melveyr]

I saw that you mentioned SQL coding. My job requires me to do lots of basic SQL queries on a daily basis and it is strangely satisfying. If you like to a nerd out, even a just a little bit, it can be really fun. Plus being able to churn through huge databases is an extremely useful skill. Pretty soon there is going to be data on everyone/everything stored in corporate/government databases. Being able to digest the data is going to be an increasingly rewarding/fun skill.

[WildAboutHarry]

I agree with melveyr on learning SQL.  Database programming is very useful in a variety of settings.

I never took any computer science in college, but I taught myself C, Pascal, assembly, etc. early on (ok, very early on) and used those skills in a variety of productive ways.  Knowing visual basic for applications (VBA) allows you to extend Microsoft Office products.  I'm currently a fan of Python.

If you are interested in adding some programming skills and prefer more structured learning, check your local junior college..

[rhymenocerous]

I saw that you mentioned SQL coding. My job requires me to do lots of basic SQL queries on a daily basis and it is strangely satisfying. If you like to a nerd out, even a just a little bit, it can be really fun. Plus being able to churn through huge databases is an extremely useful skill. Pretty soon there is going to be data on everyone/everything stored in corporate/government databases. Being able to digest the data is going to be an increasingly rewarding/fun skill.

Do you know any books or resources that would be useful for learning SQL?  I'm mainly looking to learn the basics, but also want to be able to perform data analysis.  Something like this perhaps: http://www.amazon.com/Data-Analysis-Usi ... 346&sr=8-1.  I'm not really a database administrator, so I don't think I need any books on that specifically.

[moda0306]

You guys referred to "selling" in this post, and how important it is.  I consider my self pretty sociable, and can get along with almost anyone, but I think I'm still missing some key traits.

Is there a good book on this, or do I have to go to some kind of wacky seminar?

[MediumTex]

You guys referred to "selling" in this post, and how important it is.  I consider my self pretty sociable, and can get along with almost anyone, but I think I'm still missing some key traits.

Is there a good book on this, or do I have to go to some kind of wacky seminar?

I was thinking about this thread yesterday and I'm glad you bumped it.

In addition to learning to sell, I would say "learn to serve."  What I mean by that is learn how to be useful to others and add value to the efforts you are involved with. 

A person who can sell and serve would be unstoppable.

As far as a book on how to sell, I would probably go way back to Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People."  Don't let the goofy-sounding title fool you--it's a great book with many great ideas.

Also, when you are out in the world in a customer role, pay attention to salespeople you encounter who leave a favorable impression on you.  Ask yourself what they did to create that impression and why you reacted the way you did.

I find that cultivating an intense level of engagement with people is a good place to start, paying close attention to what they respond favorably to.  Sales is not manipulation; if anything, it's a form of seduction, and everyone likes to be seduced.  Any time I come across a skilled sales person I am more than happy to give him/her my money because I so enjoy someone paying that much attention to me, and making sure that I am pleased with the transaction. 

Contrary to stereotypes, I also think that effective sales techniques start from a foundation of humility.  When I am in a sales role, I don't want to do anything except find out what my customer/client needs and figure out how I can give it to them while still making a profit.  The challenge in these situations is often that the customer/client doesn't know (or can't articulate) what it is that they need, and you have to be able to give shape to their vague preferences, desires and perceptions of need.

[CA PP]

I recently read "The Secret of Selling ~ Anything", Harry Browne. 
Recommended read on this subject.

[Tortoise]

Most of us who read this forum are on the introverted side of the spectrum (as evidenced by the Myers-Briggs personality types discussion we had a while back). And unfortunately, introverts are at a disadvantage when it comes to salesmanship--an inherently extroverted activity. It's why engineers are considered notoriously bad salesmen, for example: most engineers are introverts.

Some introverts work at becoming more effective at selling, which often involves "faking" a more extroverted outward persona--one that does not come naturally. Recently, I have begun questioning whether it is actually a good thing to fight one's basic personality type.

Maybe this is a perspective worth considering: If you're having to actually try to sell something, is it possible you're just dealing with the wrong customer? When you match the right product with the right customer, doesn't the product practically sell itself?

Maybe people should spend less time trying to learn "how to sell" and spend more time trying to figure out how to create products and services in such high demand that they practically sell themselves. Wouldn't that imply an even higher level of service to others?

[moda0306]

Tortoise,

I tend to think HB maybe had some insight on this, though I didn't read his "How to sell" book.  He basically said, as rare as you think you may be, and therefore have to conform to a crowd you're not like, there's likely someone else that's in the same position, and all the smarmy salesman out there aren't doing anything for them either.

He goes on to say that while you might not be part of the crowd, that's as much of an advantage as a disadvantage, as it makes you specifically tailored to a small-but-underserved "social marketplace."

Maybe that only works with relationships, and not sales, but I'd imagine there's some overlap.

[MediumTex]

I recently read "The Secret of Selling ~ Anything", Harry Browne. 
Recommended read on this subject.

I read that too.

It's really good.

As moda touched on above, HB's strategy was to find the people who already wanted to buy what he was selling, rather than try to convince whoever he happened to come across that they should buy what he was selling.

[Storm]

From a technical standpoint, I agree with melveyr's comment about SQL and learning how to analyze "big data."  Every vertical market needs good data analytics.  Now that technology has enabled us to store data about everyone and everything, there is an underserved market in analyzing that data to provide actionable intelligence to management.  This is how large companies like Wal-Mart make so much money - they have gotten their data mining down to the point where they actually know what items people like to buy before a hurricane and they have computer systems pulling in the raw weather service data feeds and automatically drop shipping those items before the storm hits, to stores in their path.  This is just one small way a company uses data to maximize profits, but the potential is infinite.

The cynical side of me says that none of this matters if you are a good salesman.  We all know a few people at work where you wonder how they got promoted when they are so unqualified for their position.  Because they are a good salesman and know how to basically "kiss the right asses" to get a job that someone else is more qualified for.  This happens all the time, and as an engineer it really bothers me that I can think of a half dozen people that make more than me and contribute a lot less value to the company.  This is the way life works, and it's not fair.  The sooner you learn that, the better.

As engineers and introverts, we're inherently bad salesmen because we have a habit of blurting out the truth.  Being a salesman is all about withholding the truth, or only telling the parts of the truth that people want to hear, and leaving out the bad or unpleasant parts.

Ask an engineer if a rusted out bridge will collapse, he'll tell you about 10 reasons why it's unsafe to drive on, what might happen if it does collapse, how to repair it, what the cost will be, etc.  Ask a salesman if a rusted out bridge will collapse and he'll tell you what you want to hear.

[moda0306]

I like to think that what I'd consider a "good salesman" in a more complete sense is someone who can engage people just like most good salesman, but, combined with excellent service to what the client knows they want, the salesman can also articulate "complicated truths" in as functionally consise way as possible that aid the customer/client in areas they didn't even think to consider... which is inherantly difficult given the obvious lack of familiarity with these considerations on the clients part.

An example is someone who could explain the role of gold in a portfolio, or Long-term treasuries, in a way that laymen can understand it and get on board quickly.  

MT's analogies illustrate an ability to break down complex truths into simple visualizations.  This is what I consider a good salesman from the perspective of a consumer.  When I want to buy a car, I don't need some engineer telling me uber-wonkish details about how it works, but simply a guy who can simultaneously help me get what I know I want, and clarify all the things I didn't know about but are important in the process of choosing a vehicle that I want to keep.

No offense to the engineer, by the way... I respect their contributions immensely, and I feel their not properly rewarded for their work simply because they can't work up the bullsh!t factor enough all too often... but, as Tom Skykowski said, someone has to deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to.

[MachineGhost]

As far as a book on how to sell, I would probably go way back to Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People."  Don't let the goofy-sounding title fool you--it's a great book with many great ideas.

MT beat me to the punch.  I recommend the exact same book.  All salesmanship is ultimately about ass-kissing and learning how to do so successfully is becoming a lost art with Internet oversocialization (you miss the physical social cues).

Also, I'd recommend watching the movies "Glengarry Glen Ross" and "The Big Kahuna".

MG

[Tortoise]

Also, I'd recommend watching the movies "Glengarry Glen Ross" and "The Big Kahuna".

Alec Baldwin's super-charged speech in "Glengarry Glen Ross" is a classic. "A-B-C! Always be closing!"

[MediumTex]

Also, I'd recommend watching the movies "Glengarry Glen Ross" and "The Big Kahuna".

Alec Baldwin's super-charged speech in "Glengarry Glen Ross" is a classic. "A-B-C! Always be closing!"

For anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, please take 8 minutes to enjoy this classic scene:

http://youtu.be/KUqo5tPZjrM

[AdamA]

For anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, please take 8 minutes to enjoy this classic scene:

http://youtu.be/KUqo5tPZjrM

The original is even better.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/ ... on/1185615

Approx 5 min.

[MediumTex]

For anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, please take 8 minutes to enjoy this classic scene:

http://youtu.be/KUqo5tPZjrM

The original is even better.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/ ... on/1185615

Approx 5 min.

Thanks for that. 

Very nice.