Another Innovative Idea from Europe

[doodle]

When I was visiting Amsterdam years ago, I noticed a funny thing in the toilets at the airport. All of the urinals had a small image of a fly painted inside. At first, I thought it might be the brandmark of the toilet company. Only later did I see a story in the paper that said it was a method that helped keep the floors around the urinal cleaner by creating a target for people to aim at. In other words, it was actually a form of "social engineering" in some ways.... getting people to behave in a positive way, without resorting to force or rules.  

Here is another great idea of social engineering out of the Netherlands: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/11/scien ... 5OzXCkri6A

A brand new government tax proposal to charge drivers a fee for the miles they drive. Basically, a meter is placed into the car which charges for the miles driven as well as factors in the cost to society in the form of pollution, traffic congestion, greenhouse gas emissions and wear and tear on roads. The driver can see the charges accruing on the meter as they drive, and at the end of the month they receive a bill in the mail. The idea is that this could be used as a method to replace traditional vehicle, gas, and road taxes.

The nice thing is, the overall taxes collected would be about the same as the old method, but because there is an instant feedback mechanism through the meter in the car, people would be more conscious about the true cost of their actions.

I think this type of idea could be applied to many other areas to induce a conservation effect simply by providing the consumer with more information. For example, I believe there should be a power meter installed inside of every house that shows the consumer the price of their electric use in real time. When their AC is set to 68 degrees, they can watch the price of their power consumption tick up penny by penny. This wouldn't cost the consumer any extra, but the information, and observing how their actions relate to true costs, might get them to conserve without having to resort to top down government regulation.

This type of "social engineering" (and I hate to call it that because of negative connotations) could be very powerful way to change peoples behavior without resorting to regulation.

What do the libertarians here think?

[Storm]

Doodle, I'm a big fan of "gamification" and I believe we will start to see it in all aspects of our lives in the near future.  For example, if any of you have an Xbox or PS3, you know when you win something in the game, you get a trophy or an achievement.  A message pops up on your screen saying "Achievement Unlocked:  5 Kill Streak", or "Achievement Unlocked: Finished such and such mission".

The cars of the future will use gamification to encourage fuel efficient driving.  Some of the new cars already do this to a small extent.  The Honda Insight Hybrid, for example:

How else does the Insight make being energy efficient fun? Its Eco Score awards drivers with little sprigs when you drive economically. And below are different levels you can achieve. The concept is called gamification.

So, I predict, the car of the future will not only do this, you will have achievements and leaderboards.  For example, you just drove 20 miles to work and the car GPS knows this route because it's learned your daily driving patterns.  This time, you averaged 50 miles per gallon and used less fuel than ever before:  "Achievement Unlocked: Fuel Efficient Master!"

Also, having cars internet connected will mean leaderboards - the top 10 or top 25 MPG in the world will be up on a screen for all to see.  D. Smith from Iowa got 53.6 mpg, can you beat him?

I'm all for the gamification of daily activities.  I think the free market will even start to gather this data and use it for things like insurance rates.  For example, if you are a safe and efficient driver, you'll get a better car insurance rate.

What I am not for is government dictating that people use such systems.  Some people will be against it, and I suppose it is their right to disable the game systems in their car.  But, as long as the free market continues to innovate, gamification is inevitable.

Gamification will continue to become pervasive.  For all sorts of things like brushing our teeth, eating healthy, etc.  These things will be tied into social networks and you will get points for doing certain activities.  It's scary in some ways, but also exciting as there are a lot of technology startups that will make a lot of money from this.

[MediumTex]

Will the low scorers in the gamified society be placed in womb-like cocoons to have their BTUs harvested by the machines?  :D

[doodle]

Storm,

I think this "gamification" (I haven't heard that term before), is an awesome idea. In fact, I think it has the potential to turn mundane and boring parts of life into entertainment. This is the same thing that parents do with children to get them to eat their vegetables or clean their bedrooms etc.

In the states I can imagine this being a very real way of combating the obesity epidemic. I wonder if Michelle Obama is exploring this type of idea while she undertakes her mission to improve children's health and exercise habits.

[Storm]

From what I've heard, small RFID chips in packages and items will drive this.  For example, your fridge has an RFID sensor and all the food from the store has an RFID tag in each package.  The fridge will know whether you pulled out a tub of Ben and Jerry's or a healthy snack, and can award or subtract points from your score.  Your toothbrush will have a tiny chip in it that can sense how long you're brushing and will communicate wirelessly with your home network.  Your running shoes will have sensors in them that can score you based on how much exercise you get (this is already possible with Nike and iPhone/iPod software).

The general idea is pretty sound - just like parents make a game out of eating vegetables, this will help us to make a game out of all the things we know we should do but just don't seem to want to do...  Although in some ways I can see people complaining that this is just us living in a nanny state/big brother/the matrix...

[doodle]

I actually just emailed First Lady Obama about this as a potential strategy to address childhood obesity in her Let's Move campaign. I really think this is a fantastic idea that has the potential to turn the most mundane and onerous parts of life into exciting challenges.

[doodle]

Why would this be a big brother fear? It could be achieved through the free market. Nike could actually increase sales of a certain shoe if they incorporate this technology and then offer rewards or gift certificates based on miles run...Oral B could do the same with their toothbrushes etc.

I think this is a great idea.

[doodle]

TennPaGa,

That is how America is going to achieve 5% GDP growth again.

[Storm]

TennPaGa,

That is how America is going to achieve 5% GDP growth again.

LOL!  So true.  I can see the banner ads now "buy our toothbrush shaker and save 10% on your dental insurance premiums!"

-or-

"Work from home and make $500 a day by taking items in and out of your refrigerator!  Stay at home mom reveals how!"

[AdamA]

Will the low scorers in the gamified society be placed in womb-like cocoons to have their BTUs harvested by the machines?  :D

They are processed into Soylent Green. 

[MediumTex]

Will the low scorers in the gamified society be placed in womb-like cocoons to have their BTUs harvested by the machines?  :D

They are processed into Soylent Green. 

Snack cakes for the alpha gamers.

[doodle]

I'll just keep a running tab of great European ideas: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/world ... rmany.html

Along with taxing marijuana sales...this could be added to the budget balancing ideas.

Curious....what would the libertarian perspective say the greater evil is....banning prostitution...or taxing it?

[MediumTex]

I'll just keep a running tab of great European ideas: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/world ... rmany.html

Along with taxing marijuana sales...this could be added to the budget balancing ideas.

Curious....what would the libertarian perspective say the greater evil is....banning prostitution...or taxing it?

But what about the head-scratchers like European men's swimwear fashions or the concept of a group of nations with a 500+ year history of fighting wars with one another deciding to peg themselves to a single fiat currency?

I would have a hard time picking which idea makes less sense to me.



I predict that future historians will write that the EU experiment was a misguided and naive arrangement whose silliness was only surpassed by the prevailing men's swimwear fashions of the time.

[doodle]

MT,

Actually, European swimsuits are pretty much the standard all over the world. I really wish they would be acceptable over here. They are much more comfortable and lighter in the water than the chaffing board shorts and they dry much faster. I grew up in Europe so topless women and men in banana hammocks don't turn my head.

With regards to the Euro currency, I think it is a fabulous idea (almost on par with the speedo) that needs to have some serious kinks ironed out. Having separate currencies for each European country poses the same issues that the United States faced when each of the states minted its own currency....it creates issues for travel, trade, and commerce.

[MediumTex]

MT,

Actually, European swimsuits are pretty much the standard all over the world. I really wish they would be acceptable over here. They are much more comfortable and lighter in the water than the chaffing board shorts and they dry much faster. I grew up in Europe so topless women and men in banana hammocks don't turn my head.

I cannot disagree with you.  Marble sacks probably are technically superior to board shorts with their flimsy liners and poor support.  It's probably kind of like the metric system, though--you've just got people hanging on to another system for no real good reason.

With regards to the Euro currency, I think it is a fabulous idea that needs to have some serious kinks ironed out. Having separate currencies for each European country poses the same issues that the United States faced when each of the states minted its own currency....it creates issues for travel, trade, and commerce.

Do you think that the nations of Europe are done fighting wars with one another?  I hope they are, but we are only a couple of generations removed from the most disastrous military struggle in the history of humanity, and I'm not convinced that humans can become THAT much more enlightened in such a short period of time.

I believe that at some point a surge of nationalism will hit in the form of a populist political movement in one or more of the EU countries and casulty #1 will be the euro.

[doodle]

Unfortunately, presently it looks like the world is running through the same comedy of errors that led to the deepening of the great depression and eventually got us into WWII. Greece (like Germany of past) has become the whipping boy of Europe with countries like Finland trying to extract collateral for debt etc. etc. Slap a little mustache on Perry and....well I won't go there.

The European Union is certainly being tested. Nevertheless, anyone who has been to Europe and jumped on a train only to get off an hour later in another country realizes that creating an economic union makes too much sense to casually abandon the idea at the first sight of discord. I am confident that Europe's core will work through the issues and maybe jettison a few countries here and there. They all stand to lose if they can't make this work. 

[MediumTex]

I am confident that Europe's core will work through the issues and maybe jettison a few countries here and there. They all stand to lose if they can't make this work. 

You could have said the same thing about the League of Nations in 1935.  They couldn't make it work, in spite of the enormous amount they stood to lose.

People and nations do incredibly stupid and short-sighted things.

[moda0306]

I feel like Europe has so many different cultures and histories on one hand, but the world is getting smaller on the other... I can fully understand the will to get off an inefficient system of having several currencies in the region, but it simply isn't able to function... it's not just Greece.  Ireland was a conservative poster-boy.  Low taxes, low spending, balanced budgets... If Ireland can go under, then who knows what the litmus test should be to ensure only the most responsible countries use the Euro.

I just feel bad for Europe at this point... what a mess over there.

[stone]

Medium tex, "With regards to the Euro currency, I think it is a fabulous idea (almost on par with the speedo) that needs to have some serious kinks ironed out. Having separate currencies for each European country poses the same issues that the United States faced when each of the states minted its own currency....it creates issues for travel, trade, and commerce."

What puzzles me is that $7T USD per day? gets exchanged by forex speculators and yet the relatively minute amounts exchanged for commerce and travel are supposidly a big practical burden. Any company needing to fund long term contracts could hedge the currency risk couldn't they? I never find it a nuisance using a foreign currency. My debit card still works. What's the problem?