http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/2011080 ... is-110802/
This is looking pretty ugly folks.
Greek/Eurozone Side Effects
Moderator: Global Moderator
Greek/Eurozone Side Effects
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
Re: Greek/Eurozone Side Effects
That's disturbing news.
It's surprising how easy it is to "play nice" with each other when times are good--when land and resources are plentiful--and how easy it is to go practically genocidal when land and resource availability starts to dwindle. It's like each of us is part angel and part demon.
William Catton discusses this issue in the larger context of ecology and fossil fuel drawdown in his book Overshoot, which I'm currently reading based on MT's recommendation. Fascinating read so far.
It's surprising how easy it is to "play nice" with each other when times are good--when land and resources are plentiful--and how easy it is to go practically genocidal when land and resource availability starts to dwindle. It's like each of us is part angel and part demon.
William Catton discusses this issue in the larger context of ecology and fossil fuel drawdown in his book Overshoot, which I'm currently reading based on MT's recommendation. Fascinating read so far.
Re: Greek/Eurozone Side Effects
The Euro was always a bad idea. I can only hope it implodes for the sake of Europe. I hope it takes the entire EU with it so the member countries can be free again to run their own affairs.
Re: Greek/Eurozone Side Effects
The EU experiment will begin to feel more and more like a noose around the necks of its weaker members, which in turn will begin to feel like an anchor around the necks of its stronger members.
People will look back on the EU experiment and say: "Wow, what were we thinking?"
People will look back on the EU experiment and say: "Wow, what were we thinking?"
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
Re: Greek/Eurozone Side Effects
Ahhhh, now you're cooking with gasoline.Tortoise wrote: William Catton discusses this issue in the larger context of ecology and fossil fuel drawdown in his book Overshoot, which I'm currently reading based on MT's recommendation. Fascinating read so far.
I'm so happy to hear someone else has picked up this outstanding book. I happen to be reading Catton's new book Bottleneck right now, which is good, but not nearly as gripping as Overshoot.
Overshoot is, for most readers, a deeply enlightening and/or disturbing experience.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
Re: Greek/Eurozone Side Effects
It's a collectivist's utopia vision of course. But why a country like Germany/France/Sweden/Etc. would want to adopt the economies and entitlement programs of places like Greece and Italy is absolutely insane. And not just adopt these countries, but to allow bureaucrats in Brussels to dictate policy at the expense of your own country while expecting you to pay for it all is just nuts.MediumTex wrote: The EU experiment will begin to feel more and more like a noose around the necks of its weaker members, which in turn will begin to feel like an anchor around the necks of its stronger members.
People will look back on the EU experiment and say: "Wow, what were we thinking?"
Re: Greek/Eurozone Side Effects
I find the Euro debate a bit interesting:
To a Keynesian or Monetarist, it's a lesson in having a pegged, non-devaluatable currency and adopting default risk.
To an Austrian, it's a lesson in not giving up ones' sovereignty.
Just an interesting observation on two sides looking at the same crisis extremely differently.
To a Keynesian or Monetarist, it's a lesson in having a pegged, non-devaluatable currency and adopting default risk.
To an Austrian, it's a lesson in not giving up ones' sovereignty.
Just an interesting observation on two sides looking at the same crisis extremely differently.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
Re: Greek/Eurozone Side Effects
I am fascinated with this part of human nature. The theme's been overplayed, but I'm always interested in movies to see the dynamics of crisis situations of how people tend to act... the better the movie & actors, the more interesting this dynamic.Tortoise wrote: It's surprising how easy it is to "play nice" with each other when times are good--when land and resources are plentiful--and how easy it is to go practically genocidal when land and resource availability starts to dwindle. It's like each of us is part angel and part demon.
The idea that otherwise decent (or were they) people could chase foreigners (illegal or not) down a street and beat them to death is unbelievable. I sometimes think that if pushed, a lot of civil society wouldn't be so civil... and sometimes for no other reason than to find a scapegoat for the problems of a nation (Nazi Germany).
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
Re: Greek/Eurozone Side Effects
Absolutely. I think most people would be frightened to discover just how paper-thin the veneer of civility in society really is.moda0306 wrote: The idea that otherwise decent (or were they) people could chase foreigners (illegal or not) down a street and beat them to death is unbelievable. I sometimes think that if pushed, a lot of civil society wouldn't be so civil... and sometimes for no other reason than to find a scapegoat for the problems of a nation (Nazi Germany).
When associating with each other is to our mutual benefit, we are quite civil to each other. Even downright friendly, sometimes.
When things become so crowded or competitive that we are forced to associate with each other more than we'd like, we begin to view other people as, well, "other." Less like ourselves. Maybe even a tiny bit less human.
I experience hints of this disturbing transformation in myself every day when I get behind the wheel of my car and brave the crowded L.A. streets and freeways. I often wonder how little it would take for my driving-based frustrations to extrapolate themselves to face-to-face interactions in a world of severely dwindling resources and opportunities.