What supplements do you take?

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Gumby
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Re: What supplements do you take?

Post by Gumby »

MachineGhost wrote: There are 19 pathological factors involved in disease and aging....The list of 19 factors are bone density loss, calcification, circulatory deficit, DNA mutation, digestive enzyme deficit, enzyme imbalance, excitotoxicity, fatty acid imbalance, hormone imbalance, immune dysfunction, inflammation, insulin resistance, glycation, membrane disintegrity, methylation, mitochondrial dysfunction, mitochondrial loss, oxidative stress and youthful epigenetic loss.
It seems most of what you've told us — including the speculation about Jack Lalaine's death, in another thread — is from the opinions of Bill Falloon:

http://bit.ly/LQdRkM

He appears to be the head of the Life Extension Foundation, and was apparently jailed for a dispute with the FDA about his supplements. The Life Extension Foundation sells all sorts of supplements to its subscribers. That doesn't make him wrong. But, just curious, what makes you think he's got all the answers?
Last edited by Gumby on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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MachineGhost wrote:
Digestive Enzymes (2 factors): Digestive Enzyme Deficit.  Pancreatin would be the best to use as it has the ability to dissolve the tough outer coating of cancer cells and is thusly used in alternative cancer therapy. 
MG,

In the real world, many people with suboptimal digestion (and I are one) take animal based i.e. pancreatin based digestive enzymes and notice no benefit (on their digestion).  Broad spectrum plant based digestive enzymes produce a noticable improvement.  Perhaps this is so because broad spectrum plant based digestive  enzymes work in a broader pH range and can start to work in the stomach vs Pancreatin based formulas which can only work in more alkaline pH ranges and are not active in the acid ph of the stomach.  Similase is one really good product (no commericial interest) I've used and recommended for ages.  Treating cancer is a whole different ball of wax.

Impressive list you have there (meaning the 10 pathological factors).

I'm still skeptical about the different forms of fish oil, but I suppose I should look at it again (and there are blood tests to see  how much one is actually absorbing).  On the other hand, there are people who advocate more EPA or more DHA for various purposes.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

Post by jackely »

MachineGhost wrote: There are 19 pathological factors involved in disease and aging.  To my way of thinking, I want to take the least amount of quality supplements, at the least expense, that will cover all of those 19 factors.  
I'm currently mourning the death of my hero Michael Scofield of Prison Break, as revealed in another post above this one (or below, depending on the popularity of the posts).

I prefer to die as he did, having accomplished something important and useful to the world as opposed to maximizing the benefit of the 19 factors involved in disease and aging.

But if I can't bring down the evil government that rules the world, then outliving the bastards doesn't seem like a bad goal.
Last edited by jackely on Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Gumby wrote: I'm not aware of a known correlation between toxins and gallstones. If you know of any, please let us know. My (limited) understanding is that they are caused by nutritional deficiencies/problems.
Mainstream medicine doesn't believe the liver can have stones in the bile ducts and that they are only formed in the gallbladder, and that they are only made up of cholesterol rather than a "pearl toxin".  While it seems true that eating a extreme low-fat or no-fat diet can cause stones, the liver does more than just produce bile for fat digestion.  You probably won't find much evidence for toxins and stones (that prediposes liver flushing to get rid of them) from mainstream sources; its just not a profitable kind of thought or practice.
As opposed to supplement marketing propaganda? What you call "propaganda" is nothing more than getting people to eat traditional foods. What's so wrong with that? Heart disease was rare during the 19th Century and earlier. And heart attacks were rare before 1920, despite the fact the most adults lived well into their 60s and 70s before 1900 (not including infant mortality or early accidental/preventable deaths) . Supposedly the first recoded myocardial infarction (heart attack) in the United States didn't occur until the early 1920s. This is not to say that heart attacks did not happen before 1920, but they were rare. Oddly enough, congestive heart failure is near the all-time high right now (possibly due to statins).
I want to see hard proof of Price's allegations.  Remember the raw milk with cats deal?  It's easy to go astray and draw the wrong conclusions or the conclusions you want to find.  In fairness, Price's theories are based on empirical evidence of the time.  But his latter day adherents tend to propagandize certain aspects as statements of truth without providing any hard scientific evidence (or very selective evidence).  While I know we can't all be providing beyond-the-pale studies for everything we claim, theres still something about Price's groupies that make then come across as religious true believers.  A lot of things that are "common sense" in life don't hold up under close scrutiny.  So far, I've seen more evidence that saturated fats are associated with harmful outcomes more than beneficial.
Are you under the impression that eating fatty foods makes you fat? It's a myth. They don't. I've personally lost 7 pounds since increasing my saturated fat intake last month (pastured eggs, raw milk, kefir, grass-fed animal foods) along with transitioning to traditionally prepared carbs. And that's with moderate to light exercise. I was already a skinny guy before I transitioned to those foods. Currently I'm 6'1" and 155 lbs.
Of course not!  I'm specifically concerned with the negative health effects of saturated fats.  I eat a moderate or high fat diet myself.  But you're not increasing your "saturated fat" intake per se, you're apparantly increasing your overall pastured/grass-fed meat and fat intake.  Big difference.  Anyway, I dont find it reasonable to deny decades of peer reveiwed research for the claims of a self-proclaimed guru.  I've seen that story far too many times.

So you were already skinny and you've lost a further 7 pounds?  That suggest to me you are losing lean muscle mass from displacing carbohydrates.  Dumping carbs will cause weight loss especially in a calorie deficit.  I'm unclear why you feel you need to lose more weight, but this is not a situation you should take lightly.  Is your protein intake 35% of total calories?  That would be optimal for muscle growth/preservation according to scientific research.  That's 1.5g/kg body weight.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Lone Wolf wrote: MG, what potassium guidelines do you follow?  I love both bananas and kale (and eat a relatively high calorie diet during most parts of the year) but even the RDA minimums can be quite high.  This is particularly true when leaning out.
Thats the last nutrient I have yet to deal with successfully.  I've tried bulk potassium powder supplements in the past, but they cause stomach distress.  I've tried the 50% salt trick, but it is not very tasty compared to pink or grey salts.  I was even using potassium bicarbonate to alkalize my drinking water and get the potassium at the same time.

Short of becoming a non-junk food vegetarian, I don't see a realistic option for getting 3500mg of potassium every day.  I'm also allergic to bananas and they're too highly insulinic anyways.

Unsweetened coconut water looks like an interesting possibility, but $2.50 for 14oz is ridiculous!
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Storm wrote: Personally, I tend to think some of it is ridiculous - not wanting to drink ice water because it creates too much "cold energy" in your body - however, I think we can't argue with the results.  People live longer and healthier lives with less access to health care.
I wonder if that still applies in Western nations where they're eating the worst kind of diet imaginable.  There was a study a few years ago that showed that those without health insurance actually lived longer.  Probably because the medical system didn't kill them early with all the drugs and procedures!
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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brajalle wrote: Krill Oil - cold pressed source of Omega3
L-Glutamine, L-Leucine, L-Isoleucine, L-Valine, Citruline Malate, Vit B6
Alpha-GPC
Aniracetam
Vitamin D3
Magnesium
R Lipoic acid, Co-Q10, Rhodiola Rosea, Benfotiamine, Oxaloacetic acid, D-Urdine, Acetyl-L-Carnitine
PQQ
Higenamine, Rauwolscine Hcl, 3,3-diiodo-l-thyronine
MCT Oil
Choline

Lots of grass-fed beef, grass-fed butter, organic veggies. 
Have you found any evidence of PQQ working at 10mg?

You're taking several nootropics.  Why?  I recently took Hydergine for a non-memory issue and I loved the increase in short term memory and recall.  Reminded me of when I was younger.  It's since gone away and I miss it.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Gumby wrote: http://bit.ly/LQdRkM

He appears to be the head of the Life Extension Foundation, and was apparently jailed for a dispute with the FDA about his supplements. The Life Extension Foundation sells all sorts of supplements to its subscribers. That doesn't make him wrong. But, just curious, what makes you think he's got all the answers?
That didn't seem like the right source, so I tracked down where I originally read it (scroll down, it starts in the fourth section): http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2011/nov ... ent_02.htm

I don't know what there is to argue with.  The cause of death speaks for itself.  Oh sure, should we say that Jack LaLanne actually died of pneumoia rather than the fact he had a calcified aortic valve that needed to be replaced if he wanted to live.  To me, thats like saying on the death certificate that someone with Parkison's disease that had fetal tissue therapy in the late 80's to early 90's died of Parkinson's rather than the tetroma growing in their brain!

What makes you think Price has all the answers?  If it comes down to traditions vs science, I'm not going with the former until its proved by the latter.  That's just how I think after spending two decades listening to various gurus and hucksters.  People are always full of shit; I now prefer science.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Benko wrote: In the real world, many people with suboptimal digestion (and I are one) take animal based i.e. pancreatin based digestive enzymes and notice no benefit (on their digestion).  Broad spectrum plant based digestive enzymes produce a noticable improvement.  Perhaps this is so because broad spectrum plant based digestive  enzymes work in a broader pH range and can start to work in the stomach vs Pancreatin based formulas which can only work in more alkaline pH ranges and are not active in the acid ph of the stomach.  Similase is one really good product (no commericial interest) I've used and recommended for ages.  Treating cancer is a whole different ball of wax.
How does one know if you have suboptimal digestion?  From what I know on the subject, age onset decline in HCL is very common -- or in those taking proton-pump inhibitors which inhibit stomach acid production -- and resolution is to be had by taking HCL tablets with food.  If Pancreatin doesn't work in your alkaline small intestine though, wouldn't that imply something else is going on other than HCL defenciency?
Last edited by MachineGhost on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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jackh wrote: But if I can't bring down the evil government that rules the world, then outliving the bastards doesn't seem like a bad goal.
Heh, heh.  I think you hit the nail on the head, there!
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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MachineGhost wrote: How does one know if you have suboptimal digestion?  
In my case because I have constant severe constipation if I don't take digestive enzymes.  Some people have gas or bloated feelling which goes away when they take (effective) digestive enzymes.  Other people who I've given a sample of a few weeks of the digestive enzymes don't notice much when they take them, but only notice a difference when my few weeks sample runs out and then they realize that it was doing something.

I can tell you that I've tried the HCL test several times and always 1 capsule/tablet of HCL was too much.


"If Pancreatin doesn't work in your alkaline small intestine though, wouldn't that imply something else is going on other than HCL defenciency?'

The plant based enzymes have longer to work on the food because they work in wider pH range.  And I am just guessing as to why the plant based ones are more effective.  You do raise a good point, but perhaps the gastrointestinal tract of people who need digestive enzymes is not quite right (to use a scientific term).


"those taking proton-pump inhibitors which inhibit stomach acid production"  I am not a big fan of those and would never take them.
Last edited by Benko on Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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MachineGhost wrote:What makes you think Price has all the answers?
Simple. Because Price isn't coming up with new and untested ways to extend our life span.

All Price did was look at the long-term dietary habits of cultures that had low incidence of degenerative diseases — and were specimens of very good health/proper bone development — and he documented what he observed. All of these healthy cultures had the same things in common: High levels of saturated fat intake, high levels of Omega 3s, and eating some raw and/or lacto-fermentated foods, and had no exposure to modern refined foods. All of the cultures he observed (as well as our own pre-1900 Western cultures) had low incidences of heart disease. ("Heart disease" in 1900 was chiefly infectious or valvular, rather than atherosclerotic, and heart attacks were rare before 1920). So, Price's observations are an excellent documentation of the historical record. That's all there is to it. Eat like your ancestors ate if you want to avoid the many chronic diseases that have increased dramatically over the past century.

More importantly, the dietary habits he observed are almost certainly representative of how humans nourished themselves for thousands of years. In other words, Price observed thoroughly tested dietary regimens.
MachineGhost wrote:If it comes down to traditions vs science, I'm not going with the former until its proved by the latter.  That's just how I think after spending two decades listening to various gurus and hucksters.  People are always full of shit; I now prefer science.
"Science" isn't nearly as pure as Bill Falloon would have you believe. He is clearly one of those gurus/hucksters — selling supplements and holding up a bunch of cherry-picked white papers to prove they work. He's a snake oil salesman. Scientific studies are heavily influenced by corporate interests. Where do you think the money to do all these "studies" usually come from? When the studies don't make the sponsors happy, they either eliminate conflicting data — to prove their hypothesis — or they downplay the conflicting data. Or they bury the study and don't publish it. Many times they will tweak graphs and data points to overemphasize their conclusion. Researchers who don't make sponsors happy don't get funded. All this money-driven data makes its way to the media and gets simplified to conclusions that have very little real "science" behind them. Those same flawed conclusions are often used as a foundation for subsequent studies (i.e. Study A says X=Y, so Y must be the cause of Z). It's a very murky way to jump to conclusions. Many studies conflict each other, but researchers will just exclude — or fail to mention — the studies that don't pair nicely with their own findings.

"Tradition" is much more clear cut. There is a pretty clear historical record that shows what people died from and how they lived. You don't see corporate interests proving much with the historical record, because everyone got their nutrition from farms before 1900 and most chronic disease was pretty rare.

[align=center]Image[/align]
Last edited by Gumby on Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Benko, I would try consuming more olive oil, aloe vera juice, psyllium fiber, and possibly even some Colace pills regularly for your severe constipation. My dad is 99 and had this recently and he is being helped considerably by these things. The doctors also prescribed Miralax for him and that worked well also.
Last edited by Reub on Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Reub wrote: Benko, I would try consuming more olive oil, aloe vera juice, psyllium fiber, and possibly even some Colace pills regulary for your severe constipation. My dad is 99 and had this recently and he is being helped considerably by these things. The doctors also prescribed Miralax for him and that worked well also.
I appreciate the thoughts, but for the most part I don't have any constipation problem as long as I take broad spectrum plant based digestive enzymes with each meal, which I have done for over a decade.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Gumby wrote: [align=center]Image[/align]
It looks like "Locked jaw" and "intemperance" were of approximately equal deadliness back then.

I wonder about the person who died of "Insanity."
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Coffee wrote: Off topic: What do you think of amalgam fillings?  I'm considering getting mine removed and replaced with composite/resin fillings.  Can't figure out if the hub-bub about mercury in fillings is real or not, though.  Could just be another one of those things people on the fringe get worked up about?
Amalgam fillings do leak or cause mercury vapor.  However, run of the mill composite fillings have BPA (xenoestrogen), so care should also be taken in selecting a biocompatible composite filling.  But, I think you would rather have quantifiable proof that you are being exposed to the mercury before undergoing the expense and trouble of having amalgams removed by a competent holistic dentist (emphasis on competent -- both the dentist and patient need serious protection to remove them safely).

I recommend the Toxic & Essential Elements hair analysis test from Doctor's Data.  There is an active community that uses this test with children with autism spectrum disorders (to make a long story short, vaccines used to contain toxic mercury and currently contain toxic aluminum), so interpretation is readily available compared to other labs.  You can order it from http://www.directlabs.com/

Here's the main page from mine a few years ago (I've never had amalgam fillings):

[align=center]Image[/align]
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Coffee why do you want to have your fillings removed?  I'm skeptical that doing so will provide significant benefit, and may very well do harm if you are not careful.

If you want to evaluate your body mercury burden I would suggest blood or urine test (your doctor can order, or there are places on line e.g. LEF which you can order test without a doctor) which I am more confident in vs hair tests which I am not sure how valid the results are.  Not saying hair tests are not valid, just saying I am more confident the blood/urine are.  NB: eating a lot of tuna/fish could also elevate your body mercury.

Having new amalgam fillings put in is another thing, and I would not do that.  I have been having composite ones put in, but am reevaluating that based on a post I recently ran across by a dentist (he recommended silver/gold if you wanted to avoid amalgam) and what MG wrote.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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I have a chronic migraine condition that I've been researching for the past 15 years now.  I've tested (literally) almost everything you can imagine, both traditional and holistic.  I have a thick file folder of meds, therapies, doctors and treatments I've tried.

I have found that my triggers are: large amounts of MSG/sodium nitrates (which I've eliminated from my diet) and barometric pressure change.  (weather, rain).

But the one thing that has eluded me is: I can't figure out what's making me sensitive to those triggers?

I stumbled across the mercury issue when somebody on one of my marketing forums mentioned a book that had been selling well on Amazon. 

Thanks for the input, guys.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Machine Ghost: Why is your uranium so high?
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Coffee wrote: I have a chronic migraine condition that I've been researching for the past 15 years now.  I've tested (literally) almost everything you can imagine, both traditional and holistic.  
Have you tried acupuncture/chinese herbs?  I just referred someone I know's girlfriend to a good local practitioner for migraines.

Coffee wrote:
I have found that my triggers are: large amounts of MSG/sodium nitrates (which I've eliminated from my diet) and barometric pressure change.  (weather, rain).

But the one thing that has eluded me is: I can't figure out what's making me sensitive to those triggers?
I would wonder if "stress" causes/contributes.  I've just posted an article I wrote in 2006 which may have suggestions that might be of help (and I would suspect more likely to be of helpful that the mercury thing--unless you get blood tested and your level is  super high).  If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Some people have less response to MSg if they take sufficient B vitamins.
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Coffee wrote: Machine Ghost: Why is your uranium so high?
I want to know too.

Why is MachineGhost's uranium so high?
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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MediumTex wrote:
Coffee wrote: Machine Ghost: Why is your uranium so high?
I want to know too.

Why is MachineGhost's uranium so high?
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Benko wrote:
Coffee wrote: I have a chronic migraine condition that I've been researching for the past 15 years now.  I've tested (literally) almost everything you can imagine, both traditional and holistic.  
Have you tried acupuncture/chinese herbs?  I just referred someone I know's girlfriend to a good local practitioner for migraines.

Coffee wrote:
I have found that my triggers are: large amounts of MSG/sodium nitrates (which I've eliminated from my diet) and barometric pressure change.  (weather, rain).

But the one thing that has eluded me is: I can't figure out what's making me sensitive to those triggers?
I would wonder if "stress" causes/contributes.  I've just posted an article I wrote in 2006 which may have suggestions that might be of help (and I would suspect more likely to be of helpful that the mercury thing--unless you get blood tested and your level is  super high).  If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Some people have less response to MSg if they take sufficient B vitamins.
Hi, Benko:

RE: Chinese herbs and accupuncture -- Yes, I've tried it on two separate occasions. 
RE: Stress-- I don't think it's that, for two reasons: First, I'll have very high stress days with no migraine.  And second, I'll have low/no stress days when I'll have migraines.  I've tried massage therapy (both with and without the happy ending), hypnosis, meditation, NLP and others.  None of it helps.
RE: Vitamin B -- When I lived in Costa Rica, I was getting Vitamin B injections.  Didn't help.  I also recently finished a 3 month test of Migralief, which is a Magnesium/Feverfew/Riboflavin cocktail pill that works for many.  Didn't help.

If I had to take a wild guess, I'd think it might be an allergy to something.  But I've lived everywhere, from the desert to the rain forest-- and it doesn't make a different... I still get 'em.  (Nevada is best for me because we get so little rain, but we do still have wind, which is a trigger).  I've been allergy tested two or three times over the years-- and the allergists tell me, "We'd love to sell you a treatment of allergy shots... but in good conscience, we can't."
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Re: What supplements do you take?

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Benko wrote: Coffee why do you want to have your fillings removed?  I'm skeptical that doing so will provide significant benefit, and may very well do harm if you are not careful.

If you want to evaluate your body mercury burden I would suggest blood or urine test (your doctor can order, or there are places on line e.g. LEF which you can order test without a doctor) which I am more confident in vs hair tests which I am not sure how valid the results are.  Not saying hair tests are not valid, just saying I am more confident the blood/urine are.  NB: eating a lot of tuna/fish could also elevate your body mercury.

Having new amalgam fillings put in is another thing, and I would not do that.  I have been having composite ones put in, but am reevaluating that based on a post I recently ran across by a dentist (he recommended silver/gold if you wanted to avoid amalgam) and what MG wrote.
The problem with urine/blood tests is they only tell you what is currently acute rather than chronic and accumulating in the tissues, which toxic elements do.  It is akin to blood glucose vs HbA1c.  Hair analysis can be notoriously unreliable between different labs, so I wouldn't recommend a lab other Doctor's Data which has an established body of clinical use and interpretation.

Gold-platinum composite filings are definitely top notch (avoid silver or nickel composites, etc.) and last decades compared to amalgam or composites.  However, it is a dying specialty not taught in dental schools anymore and the dentist has to be trained and qualified to do them competently.  Very sad.

There's far too many hucksters out there taking advantage of either mercury removal or gold filings without having the proper experience.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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MachineGhost
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Re: What supplements do you take?

Post by MachineGhost »

Coffee wrote: Machine Ghost: Why is your uranium so high?
I have no freaking idea!  I can only speculate it may have been due to smoking when I was younger or unknown exposure while living in the military.  I could not find anything about chelating uranium out of the body at the time, so eventually I just took solace in the fact that uranium levels tend to be high as compensation for when iron intake is low.  But if you look at my iron, its not exactly at lows that would be suggestive of that...  so now I'm concerned again.

Fortunately, over the past month or two I did come across a chelator of radiation that was used in Japan after WW2, but I had totally forgot about my high uranium levels until now.  I do wonder if that could be the causative agent behind my food/chemicals sensitives which I've been trying for 15+ years to figure out.  Like you, I can't tolerate MSG or nitrates, among many other ridiculous things.  As I've taken more tests over time to rule out certain factors, I've been leaning more and more in the direction of a "sluggish liver" for lack of a better term.

Also, I took that hair test after about 5+ years or so of using an infrared sauna each day, so the results sans uranium may look alot better than it could have been.  Especially compared to the average Western citizen.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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