Biden/Harris Discussion

[yankees60]

I'm sorry, I find a lot of the discussion about the candidates here very juvenile, focusing on speech patterns and likability, etc. as if this was an election for junior high class president. Who cares if the guy or gal is likable? What are the policies they stand for? Are they for bigger government or smaller government?

I'll take that comment directed at me. So, I'll add that Biden has no integrity.

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

This might be a little off-topic but if we are still going thru Covid into the new year (and I believe the powers that be are not going to let up on it) and we have a new administration take over, which way do you think it will go? Once they take office will Covid just sort of disappear from the news, the birds will start singing and the flowers blooming again as everything is right in America? Or will it go the other direction and the administration will do hardcore lockdowns and national facemask orders and keep it going?

This may give a hint.

Joe Biden Says Wear a Mask For Next 3 Months
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hmaw35V4Nk

Be a Patriot..

In the words of Trump on HCQ, "What do you have to lose?"

Would it really be the end of the world to get 95% mask compliance for a few weeks and see what happens? Or does it cause the Antichrist and locusts to appear?

[jalanlong]

This might be a little off-topic but if we are still going thru Covid into the new year (and I believe the powers that be are not going to let up on it) and we have a new administration take over, which way do you think it will go? Once they take office will Covid just sort of disappear from the news, the birds will start singing and the flowers blooming again as everything is right in America? Or will it go the other direction and the administration will do hardcore lockdowns and national facemask orders and keep it going?

This may give a hint.

Joe Biden Says Wear a Mask For Next 3 Months
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hmaw35V4Nk

Be a Patriot..

In the words of Trump on HCQ, "What do you have to lose?"

Would it really be the end of the world to get 95% mask compliance for a few weeks and see what happens? Or does it cause the Antichrist and locusts to appear?

My argument against is that a cursory review of history tells me our govt rarely admits that a policy was a mistake even in the face of overwhelming evidence. If the masks ended up having minimal effect, there is no way they would ever say “sorry folks, we were wrong and masks were really ineffective”. No matter what level of public compliance you might get, they would claim it wasn't enough and we should all mask harder.

[glennds]

I do believe, however, that from day 1 the lamestream press has been consistently and harshly negative of Trump way more than necessary. I also believe, that his big leadership test came, COVID, and he failed it...and most Americans believe he failed it.

Kbg,
What are the reason(s) you believe Trump failed the COVID leadership test?

Not asking because I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you, just interested in your opinion. Thx

[Dieter]

To add a little balance to this post, I ain't voting Republican.

(registered independent, mostly vote Democratic.

Not that I really have time to debate, especially when so outnumbered in these here parts.

[GT]

I do believe, however, that from day 1 the lamestream press has been consistently and harshly negative of Trump way more than necessary. I also believe, that his big leadership test came, COVID, and he failed it...and most Americans believe he failed it.

Kbg,
What are the reason(s) you believe Trump failed the COVID leadership test?

Not asking because I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you, just interested in your opinion. Thx

I was thinking the same thing - I'm not sure Trump has done a good or bad job... the data is so subjective

[Kbg]

Kbg,
What are the reason(s) you believe Trump failed the COVID leadership test?

Not asking because I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you, just interested in your opinion. Thx

It’s pretty clear that COVID is a bit wack a moleish. But the data is there for anyone who will objectively look at it. Pretty much every 1st world country has very low rates of COVID and are having better economic recoveries...unless we are a major trading partner and they are significantly export driven.

Basically we should have done like everyone else, bite the bullet hard for 6-8 weeks. The science/math of how a pandemic spreads isn’t rocket science, algebra will get you there.

The fact we are throwing trillions again (maybe) still should tell you something as well.

Watch what Korea and New Zealand (and China) do, that’s the way it should be done. Large scale rapid testing greatly aids in keeping the shutdown areas small for follow on wack a mole outbreaks.

The CDC actually does know what they are doing and a lot of the science others are following was American made, no small irony there.

[shekels]

This might be a little off-topic but if we are still going thru Covid into the new year (and I believe the powers that be are not going to let up on it) and we have a new administration take over, which way do you think it will go? Once they take office will Covid just sort of disappear from the news, the birds will start singing and the flowers blooming again as everything is right in America? Or will it go the other direction and the administration will do hardcore lockdowns and national facemask orders and keep it going?

This may give a hint.

Joe Biden Says Wear a Mask For Next 3 Months
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hmaw35V4Nk

Be a Patriot..

In the words of Trump on HCQ, "What do you have to lose?"

Would it really be the end of the world to get 95% mask compliance for a few weeks and see what happens? Or does it cause the Antichrist and locusts to appear?

Yes Locusts have appeared...

Studies have shown HCQ along with zinc/z-pack works.. Masks Not so much..
Of course we can find the opposite opinion on the subject.

I do not like really any studies from the WHO or from the U.S. on both of these subjects.
Info from the U.S. seems biased by the people funding the study.
A cheap pill that has been out for 60 years or a brand new drug that can be sold for thousands of dollars.

[shekels]

One more thing I would like answered.
WHEN IS ALL THIS GOING TO END...
or
How much longer can we keep people in Fear and easily manipulated.

my sig line from the last few months......
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”

[jalanlong]

One more thing I would like answered.
WHEN IS ALL THIS GOING TO END...
or
How much longer can we keep people in Fear and easily manipulated.

Apparently for a long, long time. I would have thought that even someone who is very scared of the virus would at some point have come to the realization that sitting in my house, living in fear and not being able to go to the movies or to a ball game etc, is really not living at all. So I will just move on and take my chances with the virus because life is short as it is. The idea of people just deciding to live inside and avoid as much human contact as possible in perpetuity never dawned on me.

[shekels]

One more thing I would like answered.
WHEN IS ALL THIS GOING TO END...
or
How much longer can we keep people in Fear and easily manipulated.

Apparently for a long, long time. I would have thought that even someone who is very scared of the virus would at some point have come to the realization that sitting in my house, living in fear and not being able to go to the movies or to a ball game etc, is really not living at all. So I will just move on and take my chances with the virus because life is short as it is. The idea of people just deciding to live inside and avoid as much human contact as possible in perpetuity never dawned on me.

+1

[Kbg]

This is my favorite COVID conspiracy line...the cheap stuff works but we are going to pay billions for the new expensive cure. Who is going to pay that billions (and has paid hundreds of millions) and who is in charge?

There is a small really conceited part of me that wonders can people really not follow through on the logic and inherent contradictions in what they are saying? Apparently not.

I spent some time looking into all of this last week and I came a way really mixed and must say I can’t form an opinion. The info is just too mixed. The cocktail seems to have some pretty compelling anecdotal evidence and does not appear to have had any good testing. The one thing I did learn was it appears to work only at a certain phase and must be done early or it doesn’t work.

Meanwhile, it seems the UK did some pretty extensive studies and nothing suggested the stuff does much good.

What I don’t get, why doesn’t Trump order some studies if the stuff is so great? Perhaps he fears the answer? I would think we would want to put this one to bed...nah, conspiracy is much more useful politically.

[Cortopassi]

This is my favorite COVID conspiracy line...the cheap stuff works but we are going to pay billions for the new expensive cure. Who is going to pay that billions (and has paid hundreds of millions) and who is in charge?

There is a small really conceited part of me that wonders can people really not follow through on the logic and inherent contradictions in what they are saying? Apparently not.

I spent some time looking into all of this last week and I came a way really mixed and must say I can’t form an opinion. The info is just too mixed. The cocktail seems to have some pretty compelling anecdotal evidence and does not appear to have had any good testing. The one thing I did learn was it appears to work only at a certain phase and must be done early or it doesn’t work.

Meanwhile, it seems the UK did some pretty extensive studies and nothing suggested the stuff does much good.

What I don’t get, why doesn’t Trump order some studies if the stuff is so great? Perhaps he fears the answer? I would think we would want to put this one to bed...nah, conspiracy is much more useful politically.

Yes. C'mon, tech, unignore me and answer this one for me without redirecting me down some rabbit hole. Is it really all a conspiracy to make more money for the drug companies?

To me (sorry TDS here) this goes back to Trump's leadership.

If I were president, and it came across my desk that HCQ was possibly useful as a treatment, I'd call in Fauci and Birx and ask them to get some double blind trials started on this, on the government's dime. I am the president, people will do this, without a doubt.

Then, I could have real data, conclusive or not, that I could present to the American people on why HCQ works (or doesn't).

Instead, there's the occasional mention, the I've been taking it for two weeks remark, and the retweeting of the doctor group touting it as a cure.

This is not the stuff of leadership. This is the stuff of Facebook level reposts of shit he's heard about and decides to retweet with little or no follow through.

If Trump wanted to push this, to get to some real study results, he could do so. But he doesn't. Again, I don't get it. Is it simply a lack of ability to focus?

Finally, there are reports of heart damage around HCQ. I still don't understand that either. How about one press conference with the doctors and Trump. Back and forth on HCQ.

Trump: I hear there's some potential for heart damage in patients taking HCQ. Is that true?
Doctor: Answers in some fashion.
Trump: But if there is some potential, are you telling me that the same potential has existed for the last 50 years for the millions who have taken this for malaria?
Doctor: It is because, X, Y, Z
Trump: Ok, thank you. Then it's settled that HCQ (does/does not) pose a risk but that risk is (small/large) compared to the possible benefits.

Yes, just put it to bed or enable more testing on it. But he remains in some nether region on HCQ.

It has to be incredibly frustrating to so many, from both directions.

[yankees60]

One more thing I would like answered.
WHEN IS ALL THIS GOING TO END...
or
How much longer can we keep people in Fear and easily manipulated.

Apparently for a long, long time. I would have thought that even someone who is very scared of the virus would at some point have come to the realization that sitting in my house, living in fear and not being able to go to the movies or to a ball game etc, is really not living at all. So I will just move on and take my chances with the virus because life is short as it is. The idea of people just deciding to live inside and avoid as much human contact as possible in perpetuity never dawned on me.

I've lost playing softball / basketball and going to hear live music. But as an extreme super introvert this lifestyle since March has been fitting me extremely well. Living well!

Vinny

[yankees60]

This is my favorite COVID conspiracy line...the cheap stuff works but we are going to pay billions for the new expensive cure. Who is going to pay that billions (and has paid hundreds of millions) and who is in charge?

There is a small really conceited part of me that wonders can people really not follow through on the logic and inherent contradictions in what they are saying? Apparently not.

I spent some time looking into all of this last week and I came a way really mixed and must say I can’t form an opinion. The info is just too mixed. The cocktail seems to have some pretty compelling anecdotal evidence and does not appear to have had any good testing. The one thing I did learn was it appears to work only at a certain phase and must be done early or it doesn’t work.

Meanwhile, it seems the UK did some pretty extensive studies and nothing suggested the stuff does much good.

What I don’t get, why doesn’t Trump order some studies if the stuff is so great? Perhaps he fears the answer? I would think we would want to put this one to bed...nah, conspiracy is much more useful politically.

Thank you for stating ALL the obvious!

Vinny

[WiseOne]

I remember that Trump leaned on the FDA to authorize hcq use for prospective randomized clinical trials. But when reports of cardiac arrhythmias surfaced, the trials were stopped. There are a number of retrospective, correlative studies with mixed results but these aren’t helpful.

If Trump had ordered the FDA to reverse its decision, you can imagine how that would have been reported. Pretty sure the media would have trotted out the H word. So I don’t think he had much choice really.

[Kbg]

I’m using Siri here. Everything that I read on the heart issue was it totally depends on size of the dosage. For standard dosages, not an issue. Apparently one has to give extremely large dosages for heart issues. But I am completely going to defer to WiseOne on this stuff. Again back to logic, we do know there is extensive use of this drug for malaria and other tropical diseases. So I’m going to guess if we had serious heart related issues, we won’t be using the drug for those things.

What am I missing?

[shekels]

This is my favorite COVID conspiracy line...the cheap stuff works but we are going to pay billions for the new expensive cure. Who is going to pay that billions (and has paid hundreds of millions) and who is in charge?

I am guessing the Hope is Insurance Companies/AKA You.. or the Government/ AKA You.. Pick up the Tab on the new drugs.

[Kbg]

This is my favorite COVID conspiracy line...the cheap stuff works but we are going to pay billions for the new expensive cure. Who is going to pay that billions (and has paid hundreds of millions) and who is in charge?

I am guessing the Hope is Insurance Companies/AKA You.. or the Government/ AKA You.. Pick up the Tab on the new drugs.

Maybe, but if the purported cocktail works then I am not that cynical. Doctors would be using the stuff all over the world. To me you can’t argue both sides. Cocktail works or it doesn’t, if it doesn’t Yep we’re going to pay tons of money. If it really did pretty sureMost on the line doctors are going to do the ethical thing.

Also let’s look at the business side of things. I imagine drug companies CEOs would do the math and make a decision if putting a bunch of money into some new drug that doesn’t really do more than other drugs is going to be worth their investment. So if you’re a capitalist you think like this. Accordingly, why would you spend all the time and effort that you could lose particularly if you’re lateCranking out something that is already covered by another drug?

[shekels]

Maybe, but if the purported cocktail works then I am not that cynical. Doctors would be using the stuff all over the world. To me you can’t argue both sides. Cocktail works or it doesn’t, if it doesn’t Yep we’re going to pay tons of money. If it really did pretty sureMost on the line doctors are going to do the ethical thing.

This I believe is just one instance of FDA Establishment denying the use of HCQ, there are more cases of refusals.
Also HCQ is being used off label and some pharmacy are refusing to fill prescriptions.
So from what I can tell ethical doctors are getting push back from the establishment for using HCQ along with Zinc/Zpak.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/health ... 360940001/

[shekels]

Maybe, but if the purported cocktail works then I am not that cynical. Doctors would be using the stuff all over the world. To me you can’t argue both sides. Cocktail works or it doesn’t, if it doesn’t Yep we’re going to pay tons of money. If it really did pretty sureMost on the line doctors are going to do the ethical thing.

This I believe is just one instance of FDA Establishment denying the use of HCQ, there are more cases of refusals.
Also HCQ is being used off label and some pharmacy are refusing to fill prescriptions.
So from what I can tell ethical doctors are getting push back from the establishment for using HCQ along with Zinc/Zpak.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/health ... 360940001/

Right now HCQ is cheap and more abundant than some drug of the future. What is available to the 2nd and 3rd World Countries.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 98030.html

But I am not a Doctor. I don't attempt to play one on the Internet so good Luck to us all.
Politics seems to be have dipped it hand into HCQ debate that is why I don't take the MSM at it's word.

[Lonestar]

I remember that Trump leaned on the FDA to authorize hcq use for prospective randomized clinical trials. But when reports of cardiac arrhythmias surfaced, the trials were stopped. There are a number of retrospective, correlative studies with mixed results but these aren’t helpful.

If Trump had ordered the FDA to reverse its decision, you can imagine how that would have been reported. Pretty sure the media would have trotted out the H word. So I don’t think he had much choice really.

I would think prospective studies, directed towards the indication of Covid, would take a very long time, even with out the apparent increased risk of arrhythmias. Retrospective studies of HCQ would center around outcomes for other indications. I was involved in the pharmaceutical industry all my working life, and it seems doubtful to me that a company is going to put it's head on the legal chopping block to seek FDA approval using retrospective data, even with a potential "black box" warning. What do you think?

[Cortopassi]

I remember that Trump leaned on the FDA to authorize hcq use for prospective randomized clinical trials. But when reports of cardiac arrhythmias surfaced, the trials were stopped. There are a number of retrospective, correlative studies with mixed results but these aren’t helpful.

If Trump had ordered the FDA to reverse its decision, you can imagine how that would have been reported. Pretty sure the media would have trotted out the H word. So I don’t think he had much choice really.

I would think prospective studies, directed towards the indication of Covid, would take a very long time, even with out the apparent increased risk of arrhythmias. Retrospective studies of HCQ would center around outcomes for other indications. I was involved in the pharmaceutical industry all my working life, and it seems doubtful to me that a company is going to put it's head on the legal chopping block to seek FDA approval using retrospective data, even with a potential "black box" warning. What do you think?

You are probably right. Just because it works for one thing and might work for another, you'd probably still need it to go through rigorous testing for the other, just like a vaccine is now.

[Kbg]

Again, contradictions. Hundreds of doctors have treated hundreds of patients, right? That’s how we know it’s so successful, right?One in a popular video claims over 400 by her a lone in Houston with what 10 doctors behind her? One can only assume they were legit doctors who agreed in front of the Supreme Court no less and are doing the same thing.

Certainly some pharmacies may be restricting, anything is possible. But isn’t the real question is it wide spread?

Pretty much anything is almost always possible...and this is a well known rhetorical technique used on people who aren’t super great on critical thinking skills. Personally my facts and evidence standard requires a decent amount of both. To be clear, we are talking probabilities, admitted. I just happen to like mine higher rather than lower. If you are into lower, super. Your brain, your life. Who am I to say how you navigate both?

[pp4me]

I saw a Youtube the other day where a Doctor said that when he has a COVID patient he asks them first whether they are Democrats or Republicans before prescribing medicine. That's because his usual prescription is for HCQ but if they are Dems he needs to tread lightly and ask if they are okay with that. Apparently a lot of them arent't.

Pretty sad state of affairs.