Figuring Out Religion

[MachineGhost]

Got to have faith, baby, faith!  Some things, particularly the most important, just cannot be proven. 

If it cannot be proven by reason or empiricism, it doesn't exist other than as a figment of the imagination aka hallucinotion.  It's a simple as that.  Modern civilization is based upon these brutal principles; we're not in the Greco-Roman ages anymore where no one knew any better.  You can't weasle your way out of hard questions by resorting to a tautology if you want any intellectual respect. 

BTW, we're all still waiting to hear what your "empirical evidence" is that supports your belief in your religion.

[doodle]

Scientists might not have all the correct answers about the origins of the universe....but I am absolutely certain that religion doesn't have the answers either.

Got to have faith, baby, faith!  Some things, particularly the most important, just cannot be proven. 

... Mountaineer

What use is faith? Wouldn't honesty be better? I'd prefer someone just say, they don't really know...and leave it at that.

[Xan]

Empiricism and reason both have their own faith-based roots.  You can't use either one without taking much on faith.

[Mountaineer]

Got to have faith, baby, faith!  Some things, particularly the most important, just cannot be proven. 

If it cannot be proven by reason or empiricism, it doesn't exist other than as a figment of the imagination aka hallucinotion.  It's a simple as that.  Modern civilization is based upon these brutal principles; we're not in the Greco-Roman ages anymore where no one knew any better.  You can't weasle your way out of hard questions by resorting to a tautology if you want any intellectual respect. 

BTW, we're all still waiting to hear what your "empirical evidence" is that supports your belief in your religion.

Giving you fish does not seem to be working.  Why don't you try fishing?

... Mountaineer

Edited to include some "fishing holes" for you to explore:

http://www.toptenproofs.com/article_resurrection.php

http://www.xenos.org/classes/papers/doubt.htm

[Mountaineer]

Re. my last post:  here are some "fishing holes" to explore:

http://www.toptenproofs.com/article_resurrection.php

http://www.xenos.org/classes/papers/doubt.htm

... Mountaineer

[Mountaineer]

Thoughts for my PP friends:

The Word of the Gospel Bestows the Righteousness of Christ and Brings Forth Faith

The good Seed, which is “the Son of Man,”? Jesus Himself (Matt. 13:37), brings forth a harvest of faith and bears good fruits in “the sons of the kingdom”? (Matt. 13:38). Whatever is sown apart from His Word is of the devil, who plants the weeds of unbelief and sin, even among the people of God. Thankfully, the Lord is patient and He does not uproot the weeds, lest the plants also be destroyed. He lets “both grow together until the harvest”? (Matt. 13:30) while He continues to preach repentance and forgiveness of sins. Thus, He preserves His Church in righteousness, because He alone is “the King of Israel and his Redeemer”? (Is. 44:6). Since all things are in His gracious care and keeping, “fear not, nor be afraid”? (Is. 44:8). For “the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God”? (Rom. 8:19), and in this hope we also wait with patience. Though we do not yet see it, “the Spirit helps us in our weakness”? (Rom. 8:26) and, in truth, “the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us”? (Rom. 8:18).

... Mountaineer

[Tortoise]

Here's a random sub-topic to discuss. I think one of the most interesting theological divides in Christianity is cessationism vs. continuationism, i.e., whether the apostolic gifts of the Holy Spirit (visions and special revelation, speaking in tongues, miraculous healings, etc.) were restricted to the original twelve apostles or have continued into the present age.

The gist of cessationism seems to be that the Holy Spirit works primarily through the reading and speaking of God's Word (Scripture), so that the extraordinary apostolic gifts of the Holy Spirit were required only in the very beginning of the Church until the official canon of New Testament Scripture was established. From that point on, Scripture became the primary--or possibly even exclusive--channel through which the Holy Spirit entered and acted through the hearts of Christians.

By contrast, the gist of continuationism seems to be that, not only are the extraordinary apostolic gifts of the Holy Spirit alive and well in the present day, but that they may actually increase in power and abundance compared to the apostolic age. A few Bible texts are usually quoted by continuationists as evidence of this idea, namely, John 14:12 and Joel 2:28-29 (boldface added):

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father."
(John 14:12, ESV)

"And it shall come to pass afterward,
    that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh;
your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
    your old men shall dream dreams,
    and your young men shall see visions.
Even on the male and female servants
    in those days I will pour out my Spirit.
(Joel 2:28-29, ESV)

The reason I find this theological divide so interesting is because, when a given Christian claims to have miraculous powers or to be receiving special messages directly from the Holy Spirit... well, either they are telling the truth, or they are utterly deceived (or deceitful). In other words, either their words carry the same weight as canonical Scripture (if it's God-breathed, it's God-breathed!), or they are--either knowingly or unknowingly--under what I can only guess is some kind of demonic influence or, at the absolute minimum, an incredible delusion of grandeur. There's not really a middle ground on this issue.

About a year and a half ago, one of my closest friends surprised me by converting from a form of New-Agey-pantheistic-religiosity to Christianity, and ever since then, he has claimed to experience some pretty weird stuff--including special revelation from the Holy Spirit on a regular basis (I think he sets aside a solitary 1-hour prayer/meditation session every day.) One of those special revelations, which he told me about earlier this year, was that the Holy Spirit told him directly that Obama is the Antichrist. (No joke!) What's kind of scary is that this guy has an extremely high IQ and is fairly successful in his career. He's not your garden variety nutcase. Hence my interest in the cessationism vs. continuationism divide.

What do some of you think about this issue? Do you personally know anyone who claims to receive special revelation from the Holy Spirit, or to possess miraculous powers, or to have clearly witnessed miracles performed by another human being under the claimed power of the Holy Spirit? If you have any particularly strong opinions or evidence on this issue, I'd love to hear about it.

[MachineGhost]

About a year and a half ago, one of my closest friends surprised me by converting from a form of New-Agey-pantheistic-religiosity to Christianity, and ever since then, he has claimed to experience some pretty weird stuff--including special revelation from the Holy Spirit on a regular basis (I think he sets aside a solitary 1-hour prayer/meditation session every day.) One of those special revelations, which he told me about earlier this year, was that the Holy Spirit told him directly that Obama is the Antichrist. (No joke!) What's kind of scary is that this guy has an extremely high IQ and is fairly successful in his career. He's not your garden variety nutcase. Hence my interest in the cessationism vs. continuationism divide.

That's really interesting and immediately makes me think he's got schizophrenia or is developing it.  The stress of being high IQ seems to precipitate "reality breaks" in suspectible people.

[MachineGhost]

Empiricism and reason both have their own faith-based roots.  You can't use either one without taking much on faith.

I missed this.  Indeed, that may be the case at the roots.  The only question then becomes about the proof of the pudding: what has done more to advance civilization and broaden our understanding of the physical and non-physical reality that we live in?  So one thing you can say about science is it does not constrain oneself into believing only a narrowband dogma that is arrogant enough to declare it has all the answers and no other Oracles are necessary, nor should they be sought out at risk of ________________ (insert some fear/guilt trip).  Just look at Islam for a spectacular example of ostriches with their heads in the sand, or the sheer irony of violent Islamic extremists trying to restore a false version of what was originally a scientific-based Caliphate.

[Xan]

So one thing you can say about science is it does not constrain oneself into believing only a narrowband dogma that is arrogant enough to declare it has all the answers and no other Oracles are necessary...

Isn't that pretty much exactly what you did say, though?

[MachineGhost]

Isn't that pretty much exactly what you did say, though?

No, but I don't think you understand what science is.

[Mountaineer]

About a year and a half ago, one of my closest friends surprised me by converting from a form of New-Agey-pantheistic-religiosity to Christianity, and ever since then, he has claimed to experience some pretty weird stuff--including special revelation from the Holy Spirit on a regular basis (I think he sets aside a solitary 1-hour prayer/meditation session every day.) One of those special revelations, which he told me about earlier this year, was that the Holy Spirit told him directly that Obama is the Antichrist. (No joke!) What's kind of scary is that this guy has an extremely high IQ and is fairly successful in his career. He's not your garden variety nutcase. Hence my interest in the cessationism vs. continuationism divide.

What do some of you think about this issue? Do you personally know anyone who claims to receive special revelation from the Holy Spirit, or to possess miraculous powers, or to have clearly witnessed miracles performed by another human being under the claimed power of the Holy Spirit? If you have any particularly strong opinions or evidence on this issue, I'd love to hear about it.

Tortoise,

Fascinating story your friend told you.  Personally, I do not know anyone who displays the characteristics you describe in your last series of questions (Benny Hinn TV shows excepted which I think are fake).  I know that God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants, and to whomever He desires but my understanding of "God's Word revealed" is that it was completed with the officially accepted writings of what Jesus did and said (I'm coming from the view that Jesus is in the entire OT and NT).  I also think about the "do not add or subtract from this" statement that is recorded in the Scriptures.  I tend to think the most important thing for us to focus on is where God/Jesus/Spirit has promised to meet us, in His Word and Sacraments, and not on all the possibilities that are omitted in Scripture.  Just think of this "Figuring Out Religion" thread:  it is pretty apparent which comments are consistent with God's will and which are Satan trying to distract us. 

Some other thoughts to consider:

1 John discusses testing the spirits to see which are from God and which are from Satan.
Demons know Scripture as well, and maybe better, than we do.  Think about how Satan tested Jesus in the desert for 40 days and all Satan promised.

Maybe the “new age spirits (demons)" are POd because your friend converted to Christianity and are trying their best to tempt him into returning to the “dark side”?.

Think of Paul’s exhortation to the Thessalonians and to the Bereans.  He indicates the Thessolonians listened so they could reply where as the Bereans listened for understanding.

There is no such thing as a Spiritless Word or a Wordless Spirit.  In the LCMS we do it all publicly (reading and preaching the Word) so as to eliminate “the Spirit told me privately”?  stuff.

The Sprit with the Word comes to us in Baptism and in the Lord’s Supper.  In the Lord’s Supper we receive all we need to sustain us for the coming week.

Spirits in the Bible: 1 John 4:1
In 1 John, John tells us that not all spirits are trustworthy. We should test each spirit to make sure it comes from God.

Prophet in the Bible: Deuteronomy 13:1-5
In this Old Testament passage, God's people are cautioned to carefully test the words of any self-proclaimed prophet or religious leader. If a prophet's teachings ever instruct people to do something contrary to God's will, they are a false prophet and should be avoided.

"Test" in the Bible: 1 John 4:1-6
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Listen and Examine for Understanding - Acts 17:10-12
10 The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. 12 Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men.


... Mountaineer

[Tortoise]

That's really interesting and immediately makes me think he's got schizophrenia or is developing it.  The stress of being high IQ seems to precipitate "reality breaks" in suspectible people.

I don't think he hears "voices" (at least not that he's told me). Don't most people with schizophrenia hear actual, audible voices in their heads? I get the impression he thinks the Holy Spirit speaks to him non-verbally by steering his thoughts in certain directions and giving him a feeling of certainty about various things as he prays/meditates. Also, he's in his mid-30s. My understanding is that most people with schizophrenia start to show symptoms when they're in their teens or early 20s.

Maybe the “new age spirits (demons)" are POd because your friend converted to Christianity and are trying their best to tempt him into returning to the “dark side”?.

I think that's a possibility. He's described having multiple experiences that were at least partly physical in nature, including one when he first "converted" in which he said his body and the entire room started shaking/vibrating/humming intensely as he prayed. He also said there were various poltergeist phenomena in his apartment that his wife experienced as well (loud footsteps, objects moving on their own, objects showing up where they weren't placed, etc.). They had their pastor come over to pray and bless the apartment, after which I think the strange occurrences subsided. Very weird.

"Test" in the Bible: 1 John 4:1-6
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

The complication seems to arise when a person confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, but then proceeds to twist Scripture or at least take fringe interpretations of certain Scripture passages (especially Revelation and some of the other controversial/difficult passages). So then you're faced with a situation where the spirit must be from God, yet the person is saying that (for example) the same spirit said that Obama is the Antichrist. And there's nothing in the Bible that explicitly says the Holy Spirit will not provide special revelation to anyone (e.g., about the identity of the Antichrist). To my knowledge, cessationism and continuationism are theological positions formed by interpreting numerous books and passages in certain ways--not by any clear, explicit passages in Scripture that say the Holy Spirit will or will not cease bestowing extraordinary gifts of prophecy, visions, revelation, etc. by such-and-such a date.

A couple of follow-up questions for those who are interested:

1. What do you think about the "greater works than these" that Jesus mentioned in John 14:12? What could we possibly do that's "greater" than what Jesus did?

2. What do you think about John 16:13 where Jesus said the Holy Spirit will "guide you into all the truth"? Was he referring only to his immediate disciples in the apostolic age who would eventually write the New Testament canon ("all the truth"), or was he referring to future revelations of truth by the Holy Spirit, possibly even centuries or millennia in the future? How can we know what he meant? Are there any clearer passages from Scripture that might help us correctly interpret John 16:13?

[Mountaineer]

The complication seems to arise when a person confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, but then proceeds to twist Scripture or at least take fringe interpretations of certain Scripture passages (especially Revelation and some of the other controversial/difficult passages). So then you're faced with a situation where the spirit must be from God, yet the person is saying that (for example) the same spirit said that Obama is the Antichrist. And there's nothing in the Bible that explicitly says the Holy Spirit will not provide special revelation to anyone (e.g., about the identity of the Antichrist). To my knowledge, cessationism and continuationism are theological positions formed by interpreting numerous books and passages in certain ways--not by any clear, explicit passages in Scripture that say the Holy Spirit will or will not cease bestowing extraordinary gifts of prophecy, visions, revelation, etc. by such-and-such a date.

A couple of follow-up questions for those who are interested:

1. What do you think about the "greater works than these" that Jesus mentioned in John 14:12? What could we possibly do that's "greater" than what Jesus did?

2. What do you think about John 16:13 where Jesus said the Holy Spirit will "guide you into all the truth"? Was he referring only to his immediate disciples in the apostolic age who would eventually write the New Testament canon ("all the truth"), or was he referring to future revelations of truth by the Holy Spirit, possibly even centuries or millennia in the future? How can we know what he meant? Are there any clearer passages from Scripture that might help us correctly interpret John 16:13?

Tortoise,  I'm not sure I can shed any light or if my comments will just add confusion.  Here is what I have:

From my Lutheran Study Bible (LSB) Notes
LSB Note on Jn 14:12
Cf 5:20.  They are greater not because they are more miraculous but because many miracles will take place after Christ has completed His work of redemption and gone to the Father.  Cf Ac 5:12-16

LSB Notes on Jn 16:13
Guide is from the Greek “hodegeo", from hodos (way, journey); to lead as a travel guide.  “things that are to come”? - Not a promise of a new revelations, but rather that the disciples would understand how Christ’s death and resurrection applied to the Church after Pentecost.  The Spirit will lead believers into a clearer understanding of God’s truth as they make their way into the future.

LSB Note on Jn 16:14
“take what is Mine.”?  Jesus had received His revelation from the Father, which would now be imparted and explained ty the Holy Spirit. 

Christ comforts the disciples by promising to send them the Helper (the Holy Spirit), who will guide them into a deeper understanding of Christ’s Word.  Mistakenly, we sometimes think that Jesus’ physical absence places us at a disadvantage.  In fact, Jesus is present with us throughout the witness of the Spirit, who works among us through God’s Word and Sacraments. 

From Bible Gateway - The IVP New Testament Commentary Series
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/i ... -Paraclete

Edited to add some additional information from LSB, page 1815

The Spirit in John’s Gospel John frequently describes the work of the Holy Spirit in his Gospel. Study the following chart (typed out below) to receive a clearer understanding of the Holy Spirit’s work in the lives of the apostles and in your life. Four passages in John’s Gospel describe the work of the Holy Spirit in an even more intimate way than does the Old Testament: 1:33; 7:39; 14:17; 20:22. Whereas the Old Testament repeatedly spoke of the Holy Spirit coming upon someone, Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit dwelling in a believer. The Spirit dwells in believers through their Baptism into Christ (cf Ezk 36:25–27 for a prophecy of this), through the Lord’s Supper, and in the revelation of God’s love and salvation in Jesus Christ. In this way, John’s Gospel emphasizes the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit, supporting and comforting believers with Christ’s gift of peace.

Chart:
Description - Meaning

Dove (1:32) - Doves were sacrificed in the temple as part of the cleansing rituals of the OT.  Christ gives you the Spirit in Baptism, which cleanses you from all sin (Ti 3:4-7)

Wind (3:eight) - The Spirit hovered over the face of the waters at the beginning of creation and throuth God's Word brought forth life.  Just as wind moves invisibly and uncontrollably, the Spirit works when and where He pelases through God's Word and baptism to give ife to you and all beievers in Christ.

God (4:24) - The Spirit is not a thing or a power but God Himself (notice how Jesus uses the personal pronoun He to refer to the Spirit; 14:26 [based on Gk text]; 15:26; 16:13).  You worship the triune God in and through the Spirit of God.

Words (6:63) - At the beginning of the Gospel, John used Word to describe Jesus.  Now Jesus uses words to describe the Spirit, through whom He gives life.  The Spirit of Jesus works in your ife through the Word of God.

Rivers of Living Water (7:38-39) - Jesus refers to the promise given through Isiah that God would satisfy the thirst of His people (Is 58:11).  Because you are a believer the Spirit dwells in and flows from you, weling up to eternal life (Jn 4:10, 13-14).

Helper (14:16, 26; 15:26) - The Spirit sent by the Father and esus will teach the disciples and remind them of Jesus' words.  This would include the way the Spirit guided the apostles and inspired them to record the books of the NT.  These passages also describe the inner workings of the Holy Trinity on your behalf.

Spirit of Truth (15:26; 16:13) - The spirit of falsehood, at work in the sinful hearts of humanity, would deceive the disciples.  Therefore, Jesus sends the Spirit of truth to guide the disciples into all truth.  Note well that the Spirit does not speak on His own.  He speaks on behalf of the Father and Jesus and testifies about Jesus.  Note again that Jesus binds the work of the Spirit to His Word.

Holy (20:22) - The Spirit makes you holy through the forgiveness of sins you receive in the gospel.  Just as Christ called and sent the apostles to porclaim this forgiveness, He calls and sends pastors to proclaim publicly forgiveness of sins (Absolution).

... Mountaineer

[Tortoise]

Thanks for the study Bible notes, Mountaineer. They're pretty helpful, and they seem to agree with the notes in my ESV Study Bible (which leans toward a Reformed perspective).

Hopefully after Obama fades into the background without proving to be the Antichrist (as I really suspect he isn't), my friend might start to question whether the "revelations" he's receiving are really from the Holy Spirit.

[MediumTex]

Hopefully after Obama fades into the background without proving to be the Antichrist (as I really suspect he isn't), my friend might start to question whether the "revelations" he's receiving are really from the Holy Spirit.

I think that people who love Obama as well as people who hate Obama both vastly overestimate his historical significance.

I think that he will go down in history as an idealistic fellow with a nice smile and a Chicago politician's willingness to cut throats and break legs, but when compared to other U.S. Presidents those qualities are unremarkable.

Every time I hear the following lyrics from Live Your Life by T.I., I think of Obama:

I'm the opposite of moderate
Immaculately polished
With the spirit of a hustler
And the swagger of a college kid

[Mountaineer]

Thanks for the study Bible notes, Mountaineer. They're pretty helpful, and they seem to agree with the notes in my ESV Study Bible (which leans toward a Reformed perspective).

Hopefully after Obama fades into the background without proving to be the Antichrist (as I really suspect he isn't), my friend might start to question whether the "revelations" he's receiving are really from the Holy Spirit.

Tortoise,

This episode may help shed a bit of light on your friend and his "revelations". 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHYqSEX ... ploademail

... Mountaineer

[Mountaineer]

Jesus loves cannibals:

http://liberate.org/2014/06/24/jesus-lo ... c-18458349

Folly!  Folly!  Sounds foolish at first.  Then I remembered what God's Word says about men who think they are wiser than God. 

... Mountaineer

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,”?

2 Timothy 3:9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

2 Peter 2:18 For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error.

[Mountaineer]

Going to Church for Rest

Another powerful, helpful sermon from the Pastor,  Rev. James Douthwaite, St. Athanasius Lutheran Church:

Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
That’s sounds good. In fact, that’s sounding particularly good to me today, because I’m tired. Being away with our youth at the Higher Things conference in Gainesville, Florida was a great week, but it’s a long, tiring week. All the driving down and back, all the things going on there, teaching and preaching, and staying up past my usual early bedtime . . . yeah, I’m tired. I could use a little rest.
So . . . I came here. To church. To rest.

Now, maybe you’re thinking: Wait a minute, Pastor. This isn’t rest for you. You have to teach and preach and do your Pastor things here, too. This isn’t rest – you’re working. I suppose it seems that way, and I guess I even think of it that way sometimes. But what about those words of Jesus? Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. This is where Jesus is, in His Word, in His Sacrament. So when I’m tired, here is where I need to be, don’t you think?

But we don’t think that way, do we? That’s why when you’re tired you’ve skipped church – whether it’s a Sunday after a long week, or a midweek service after a long day. Is it because we, perhaps, think of church as more work, as a duty, a responsibility, another thing I have to do? And you have so much of that already, the other five or six days of the week. So you need rest? Better stay home.

But it’s not that way at all. The devil has deceived us! Come to me, Jesus says, when you labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Here, then, is rest for you, from Him. The rest you really need.
And it really is. And an example of that for me is Holy Week. A lot of folks think Holy Week is the toughest week of the year for pastors, with all the special services each day and all the extra sermons to write. And it’s busy, no doubt about it. But Holy Week is also a week that refreshes me like no other. I spend so much time in the Word and prayer that by the end of the week, I am revitalized and well rested. The very thing Jesus has promised to do.

It was that way in the Old Testament too. The day on which the people were to gather together for church was called – not by accident – the Sabbath day – the day to rest. But just doing nothing didn’t fulfill the meaning of the day. It was the day of rest when God served them and gave them what they needed. Six days they were to labor and the seventh day they were to rest . . . by going to church.
You see, we get it wrong when we think the rest that we need is just physical rest. The Pharisees and Sadducees kept getting that wrong too, accusing Jesus over and over again of breaking the Sabbath by working on it. Their version of work. But we shouldn’t be so quick to absolutely divide things physical from things spiritual. Though that’s drummed into our heads these days by the world, this division, this absolute separation of the physical and the spiritual. . . .

What’s wearing you out? What struggle, what worry, what concern, what striving, what busyness, what burden? What keeps you up at night or distracts during the day? Are you just trying to do your best or is there more to it than that? Are you really trying to prove your worth, trying to fit in, trying to convince yourself and the world that you matter? What is it for you that is weighing heavy on your mind and wearing you out more than any exercise ever could?

Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
I’ll take a nap this afternoon, and if you know me you know I love naps! But the rest I need is here. The rest St. Paul needed is here. The rest you need is here. The rest that is found in Jesus Christ and Him crucified. In Him who came for you and fought for you and now to give you what you need: rest from the labor and burdens and worries of this world, whatever they are for you.
Rest in the forgiveness of your sins- that you don’t have to make good for all your mistakes, they are forgiven in Jesus.

Rest in His resurrection from the dead- that you don’t have to worry about death because Jesus defeated that enemy for you and promised you everlasting life.
- that you don’t have to prove yourself and earn your worth; that your value does not come just from what you can do and how much you achieve or how useful you are. You are a child of God. That makes you worth more than any of that other stuff ever could.

Rest in His Supper – that just as God fed Moses and Elijah, so He is feeding you, with Himself. Is this food for the body or food for the soul? Yes. Jesus doesn’t just feed part of you but all of you, just as He will raise all of you to everlasting life.

And finally, rest in His blessing and peace – that’s what the angels announced at Jesus’ birth, what Jesus won for you in His death and resurrection, and what is here given to you. Did you ever notice those are the last words you hear here every week, the final words of the Benediction?  “And give you peace.”?  And you say “Amen”? – gift received.

... Mountaineer

[Mountaineer]

I hope you take the opportunity to hear the Word preached faithfully today.

The Parable of the Sower - Matthew 13

That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat beside the sea. And great crowds gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat down. And the whole crowd stood on the beach. And he told them many things in parables, saying: “A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. He who has ears, let him hear.”?

The Parable of the Sower Explained - Matthew 13

“Hear then the parable of the sower: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”?

... Mountaineer

[MediumTex]

Jesus loves cannibals:

http://liberate.org/2014/06/24/jesus-lo ... c-18458349

When I first read that I thought it said "Jesus loves cannabis", and for a moment it validated something that I had long suspected.

[Ad Orientem]

Well I guess we now know which one really has the juice...

[Tortoise]

Great lesson, Desert. Thanks!

It's such an important theological point. If God only accomplished His ends through virtuous people, we might get the mistaken impression that human virtue has something to do with salvation. But as Scripture reveals, human virtue has nothing to do with it. Salvation is pure grace. We all help achieve God's ends, either wittingly as vessels of honorable use or unwittingly as vessels of dishonorable use (Romans 9:21).

[Mountaineer]

Scientist fired for discovery:

http://www.examiner.com/article/scienti ... -discovery

Why did CSUN fire a scientist directing a key laboratory? Because he found something the scientific community refuses to believe anyone could possibly find. He found soft tissue in a dinosaur bone. A bone for a creature that, according to convention, died at least 60 million years ago.

Fascinating.  I had not heard of this.  Brings all sorts of questions to the table for the open minded

... Mountaineer

[doodle]

Mary. Schweitzer wasn't fired though for the same discovery.....perhaps it's because she addressed the issue in a scientific manner rather than making claims that triceratops roamed the earth a few thousand years ago. Can't they just carbon date the bones and settle this immediately?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/soft-tissue ... explained/

The find was also controversial, because scientists had thought proteins that make up soft tissue should degrade in less than 1 million years in the best of conditions. In most cases, microbes feast on a dead animal's soft tissue, destroying it within weeks. The tissue must be something else, perhaps the product of a later bacterial invasion, critics argued.

Then, in 2007, Schweitzer and her colleagues analyzed the chemistry of the T. rex proteins. They found the proteins really did come from dinosaur soft tissue. The tissue was collagen, they reported in the journal Science, and it shared similarities with bird collagen — which makes sense, as modern birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs such as T. rex.

The researchers also analyzed other fossils for the presence of soft tissue, and found it was present in about half of their samples going back to the Jurassic Period, which lasted from 145.5 million to 199.6 million years ago, Schweitzer said.

"The problem is, for 300 years, we thought, 'Well, the organics are all gone, so why should we look for something that's not going to be there?' and nobody looks," she said.

The obvious question, though, was how soft, pliable tissue could survive for millions of years. In a new study published today (Nov. 26) in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, Schweitzer thinks she has the answer: Iron.