Holders of Argentine Bonds (story)

[dualstow]

"Talks Lift Hopes of Small Argentine Bondholders"

On Monday, an Argentine delegation is set to arrive in New York to meet with a mediator in its dispute with holdout bondholders led by a small group of creditors. But it isn't just the $1.5 billion owed to hedge funds Elliott Management Corp., Aurelius Capital Management LP and Olifant Fund Ltd. at stake. There are also hundreds of smaller funds and pensioners as far away as Europe, who are claiming much smaller amounts—and who also have stood their ground to recoup their investments in full. "We saved a lot, my sisters and I," said Ms. Lavorato. "We've waited all this time for the money."

But my favorite part is this:

Holders of the remainder have waited for a better deal, earning public recrimination from the Argentine government, which has cast them as greedy capitalists out to take advantage of the country.

"We won't give our homeland to vultures who want to rip it apart," President Cristina Kirchner said in a June speech.

Oh dear.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/new-york ... 1404688383

[Kshartle]

Default would be best. People think they can loan money to governments to control their people and that they deserve to get repiad even when loaning to deadbeat governments.

The bondholders think the Argentinian people owe them. They do not. I hope not one cent is repaid. Maybe people will think twice before loaning out to un-creditworthy entities.

[dualstow]

The bondholders think the Argentinian people owe them. They do not. I hope not one cent is repaid. Maybe people will think twice before loaning out to un-creditworthy entities.

A lot of the bondholders featured in the article are Argentine, though.

[Kshartle]

The bondholders think the Argentinian people owe them. They do not. I hope not one cent is repaid. Maybe people will think twice before loaning out to un-creditworthy entities.

A lot of the bondholders featured in the article are Argentine, though.

Does that make them more virtuous or more deserving of a bailout? No doubt they were trying to take advantage of higher rates under the misguided belief they would be getting a risk-free deal. Now they would prefer the government print and tax to pay them off and pass the losses off to everyone else rather than where they belong.

Shouldn't bondholders be responsible for the risk they take? If they loaned it to a company that is bankrupt they wouldn't get made whole. Why should they get that deal from the government.

I think people should be held responsible for their mistakes so the moral hazard isn't created and more mistakes made.

[clacy]

There is no such thing as a risk free investment.  Bonds have risk.  Government bonds have risk.  Government bonds from South American countries certainly carry risk.

[Kshartle]

A lot of the bondholders featured in the article are Argentine, though.

Does that make them more virtuous or more deserving of a bailout? No doubt they were trying to take advantage of higher rates under the misguided belief they would be getting a risk-free deal. Now they would prefer the government print and tax to pay them off and pass the losses off to everyone else rather than where they belong.

Shouldn't bondholders be responsible for the risk they take? If they loaned it to a company that is bankrupt they wouldn't get made whole. Why should they get that deal from the government.

I think people should be held responsible for their mistakes so the moral hazard isn't created and more mistakes made.

LOL, isn't that exactly what happened here in the good ol' USofA during the financial crisis? Bailing out bondholders at the expense of the taxpayers? I'm not a big fan of Hussman, but he ranted about this for months in 2009.

Exactly right.

Obama loves the poor and middle class so much he had to make sure he took their money and gave it to the wealthy. Bwahahahahaha

I think now that I'm 35 I'll run for prez as a stealth democract. I have no skeletons in my closet. I'm better looking than all the democrap hopefuls and I'm a vet. How hard can it be to spit out all that populist democrap nonsense? I know the script up and down left and right. I'm a white male but I should be able to express my guilt about that and shed a few tears if need be.

It can't be hard duping the voters if Obama did it, twice.

[Pointedstick]

I think now that I'm 35 I'll run for prez as a stealth democract. I have no skeletons in my closet. I'm better looking than all the democrap hopefuls and I'm a vet. How hard can it be to spit out all that populist democrap nonsense? I know the script up and down left and right. I'm a white male but I should be able to express my guilt about that and shed a few tears if need be.

It can't be hard duping the voters if Obama did it, twice.

That would certainly be an entertaining presidency!

[dualstow]

The bondholders think the Argentinian people owe them. They do not. I hope not one cent is repaid. Maybe people will think twice before loaning out to un-creditworthy entities.

A lot of the bondholders featured in the article are Argentine, though.

Does that make them more virtuous or more deserving of a bailout? No doubt they were trying to take advantage of higher rates under the misguided belief they would be getting a risk-free deal. Now they would prefer the government print and tax to pay them off and pass the losses off to everyone else rather than where they belong.

Shouldn't bondholders be responsible for the risk they take? If they loaned it to a company that is bankrupt they wouldn't get made whole. Why should they get that deal from the government.

I think people should be held responsible for their mistakes so the moral hazard isn't created and more mistakes made.

I don't disagree with any of that, but it's hard to take Kirchner's side on anything. Some of these elderly bondholders have been buying for a long time, not when Argentina was on the verge of collapse. Hindsight's 20/20, and after reading books like Craig & Mike's, I wouldn't go near South American bonds. (I don't buy foreign debt anyway).

And still, I think about how I would feel if I didn't get my money back on my own treasuries. And then to be called a greedy vulture on top of all that.

[Pointedstick]

I think now that I'm 35 I'll run for prez as a stealth democract. I have no skeletons in my closet. I'm better looking than all the democrap hopefuls and I'm a vet. How hard can it be to spit out all that populist democrap nonsense? I know the script up and down left and right. I'm a white male but I should be able to express my guilt about that and shed a few tears if need be.

It can't be hard duping the voters if Obama did it, twice.

That would certainly be an entertaining presidency!

+1

And don't forget about us after you get elected.  You'll need to surround yourself with talented people.  I'd like to be secretary of war, please.

I would settle for a position as the head of the newly-created executive branch agency "Department of Repeal."

[Mountaineer]

I'll go for Secretary of Ethics ... a position not manned for decades, if ever.

... Mountaineer

[Kshartle]

That would certainly be an entertaining presidency!

+1

And don't forget about us after you get elected.  You'll need to surround yourself with talented people.  I'd like to be secretary of war, please.

I would settle for a position as the head of the newly-created executive branch agency "Department of Repeal."

PS the pay would be very low and the hours very long I'm afraid.

[goodasgold]

A long time ago, I recall reading a travel book (by V.S. Naipaul?) about his tour of Argentina. To "combat unemployment" the government uses its borrowed money to place large numbers of citizens in overstaffed and underworked ministries.

One morning in Buenos Aires, Naipaul passed a government office where the civil servants were uncharacteristically hurrying to get to their jobs on time. When he asked an Argentine companion why these particular civil servants were in such a rush to get to work, the answer was: "That ministry has more employees than chairs."

Coming to a country very near to all of us, if it ain't happening already. 

[dualstow]

Tragic and hilarious at the same time.

[Mountaineer]

Tragic and hilarious at the same time.

Indeed!

... Mountaineer

The two major forms of Greek drama were the tragedy and the comedy.

According to Aristotle, these elements define a tragedy:
The major characters in a tragedy are not average. They are heroes, kings, and gods.
The conditions of a protagonist(s) life goes from good to bad.
A "tragic flaw" in the protagonist brings about his (or her) downfall.
The fate of many people is tied to the protagonist, so his or her downfall is a catastrophic event.
The purpose of a tragedy is catharsis, which cleans the soul of “fear and pity”? that most people carry within themselves.

According to Aristotle, these elements define a comedy:
The major characters in a comedy are average people.
The conditions of a protagonist(s) life goes from bad to good.

[Jan Van]

No need to run. Coming soon: An executive order to eliminate term limits for the Commandant-in-Chief.

LOL! Sure! Right after guns are outlawed! And before the UN takes over...

[Reub]

Argentina was once the 9th wealthiest nation on the planet before they started implementing policies eerily similar to what the U.S. is implementing today.

[dualstow]

Argentina was once the 9th wealthiest nation on the planet before they started implementing policies eerily similar to what the U.S. is implementing today.

Land o' silver

[WildAboutHarry]

If there are any positions still available in Kshartle's administration I would like to head up The Department of Redundancy Department.

[Libertarian666]

If there are any positions still available in Kshartle's administration I would like to head up The Department of Redundancy Department.

I'll take the Natural Guard!