Does gun ownership actually prevent tyranny?

[Pointedstick]

There's a thought-provoking article exploring this premise over at the Volokh Conspiracy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volo ... m-tyranny/

The author is pretty well skewered by the commenters, and his premise suffers from presenting anecdotes rather than statistics, but it's still interesting reading nonetheless regardless of what side of the issue you're on.

[doodle]

I don't think Americans have the cohesiveness to put together the country again should it ever fall apart. We're there to be a coup and we had guns all that would happen is that we would splinter into a bunch of different countries. I don't see Texas or Arizona ever willingly joining with Massachusetts or Connecticut again to restore our constitutional government.

[Pointedstick]

I don't think Americans have the cohesiveness to put together the country again should it ever fall apart. We're there to be a coup and we had guns all that would happen is that we would splinter into a bunch of different countries. I don't see Texas or Arizona ever willingly joining with Massachusetts or Connecticut again to restore our constitutional government.

I very strongly agree with this.

However, I also see it as the best possible outcome.

[Benko]

I don't see Texas or Arizona ever willingly joining with Massachusetts or Connecticut again to restore our constitutional government.

And that is a bad thing because? 

Oops.  PS beat me to it.

[doodle]

I didn't say it was a bad thing.....its just a thing-thing.

[moda0306]

I tend to think of the US as like 5 Mini countries...

The northeast through the rust belt. (Ny, pa, oh, Maine, etc)
The southeast "rebel" states. (Ga, al, fl, tx, nc, etc)
The Midwest states (mn, ia, wi, etc)
The western "frontier" (id, mt, ut, co, az, ak etc)
The west coast (cali, or, wa, Hawaii too maybe)

Obviously, there could be some overlap. But if the shtf, I could see things shaking out sorta like this.

I think I'd still stay in MN.  Especially now that we lost a lot of the "dead-beat" states that MN pays all the year through net federal outflows from our taxes .

But back to the main post... Gun ownership by the general population has probably contributed to a lack of tyranny. However, I tend to think systems of checks and balances within government, as well as a robust legal process, tend to do a better job of that. But that assumes a different definition of tyranny than some here would agree with. Some think that any government is tyranny. That's fine, but it's going to change your answer or the reason for it.

[Mountaineer]

I tend to think of the US as like 5 Mini countries...

The northeast through the rust belt. (Ny, pa, oh, Maine, etc)
The southeast "rebel" states. (Ga, al, fl, tx, nc, etc)
The Midwest states (mn, ia, wi, etc)
The western "frontier" (id, mt, ut, co, az, ak etc)
The west coast (cali, or, wa, Hawaii too maybe)

Obviously, there could be some overlap. But if the shtf, I could see things shaking out sorta like this.

I think I'd still stay in MN.  Especially now that we lost a lot of the "dead-beat" states that MN pays all the year through net federal outflows from our taxes .

But back to the main post... Gun ownership by the general population has probably contributed to a lack of tyranny. However, I tend to think systems of checks and balances within government, as well as a robust legal process, tend to do a better job of that. But that assumes a different definition of tyranny than some here would agree with. Some think that any government is tyranny. That's fine, but it's going to change your answer or the reason for it.

The focus of this thread seems to be on tyranny by the government (i.e. 2nd Amendment).  I agree that gun ownership by the general population contributes to a lack of government tyranny.  I think it more widely has prevented much individual tyranny, i.e. the tyranny that is foisted upon the weak by the criminals.  Perhaps that is one reason violent crime in the "wild, wild west" was lower than it is today.  If you know I'm packin', perhaps you will think twice before wanting what is mine bad enough to risk your life.

... Mountaineer

[Mountaineer]

Go ahead punk. Make my day! 

[moda0306]

I happened to snap a picture of Mountaineer earlier today, that I thought the rest of the forum would appreciate:

Not.  Even.  Close.

[Mountaineer]

That is poor shot placement.  Even a mediocre 1911 in the hands of a good marksman should produce a one inch group at that distance. 

My best 5 shot group from sandbags with a Ruger M77 varmint barrel in 6mm Remington at 100 yards  - 5/16 inch center to center.  Handloads, 38 grains IMR4895, 70 grain Sierra Match King.

... Mountaineer

[Kshartle]

That is poor shot placement.  Even a mediocre 1911 in the hands of a good marksman should produce a one inch group at that distance. 

My best 5 shot group from sandbags with a Ruger M77 varmint barrel in 6mm Remington at 100 yards  - 5/16 inch center to center.  Handloads, 38 grains IMR4895, 70 grain Sierra Match King.

... Mountaineer

We had a saying in the Army, "Speed is fine but accuracy is final".

[Mountaineer]

That is poor shot placement.  Even a mediocre 1911 in the hands of a good marksman should produce a one inch group at that distance. 

My best 5 shot group from sandbags with a Ruger M77 varmint barrel in 6mm Remington at 100 yards  - 5/16 inch center to center.  Handloads, 38 grains IMR4895, 70 grain Sierra Match King.

... Mountaineer

That is some very nice shooting.  What sort of scope do you have on that rifle?

Leupold 6.5x20, March 1982 vintage. 

Another fun relatively reasonably priced target rifle is an Anschutz MPR64 22LR with a Weaver T36.  Shoots one hole groups at 25 yards and about quarter inch groups most of the time at 50 yards.  Wolf Match Extra, Eley Tenex, and Lapua Midas are the best I've found for that rifle.

... Mountaineer

[Mountaineer]

Eley Tenex - MV 1085 ft/sec. Speed of sound at sea level 1125 ft/sec. So, yes, barely.

... Mountaineer

Edited to include link, site may be of interest:  http://www.accuratereloading.com/22rf.html