Lois Lerner's emails from 2009-2011 vanish

[clacy]

Does anyone care the IRS suddenly announced that the point person, at the heart of the IRS political persecution scandal, had a computer crash that resulted in all of her external emails from January of 2009 through April of 2011 vanishing?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... -john-fund

Pretty disturbing.  This is Nixon-esque IMO.  I know people through that around way too much, but this is essentially what Nixon was impeached for.

[Reub]

If the Republicans win the Senate there is going to be hell to pay for their actions. If not, I fear that the lawlessness will escalate to unimaginable proportions.

[Benko]

If the Republicans win the Senate there is going to be hell to pay for their actions.

That would require a spine, and beliefs different from the democrats, something far too few Rs possess.

[clacy]

I think the bigger problem is that no one cares.  The media has turned a blind eye.  Using the IRS to persecute political foes may be one of the most hideous tactics ever by an administration.  Dating back just 15-20 years ago, I feel like regardless of which side of the isle you voted for, people would be outraged by this type of behavior. 

Now, it's purely partisan apparently.  In fact, I don't even see that many conservatives that are outraged.

[Reub]

Right now the leftist media is still propping up Obama.  After this November's elections he will have served his purpose to them and they will suddenly become real journalists again....so as to resurrect their tainted reputations. He will need a Democratic Senate to limit what will probably befall him.

[MachineGhost]

That would require a spine, and beliefs different from the democrats, something far too few Rs possess.

"Help me, Tea Party, you're my only hope".

[MachineGhost]

I think the bigger problem is that no one cares.  The media has turned a blind eye.  Using the IRS to persecute political foes may be one of the most hideous tactics ever by an administration.  Dating back just 15-20 years ago, I feel like regardless of which side of the isle you voted for, people would be outraged by this type of behavior. 

Oh please, this is child's play compared to the outright terrorism the U.S. government engaged in under Hoover and various Presidents against blacks, minorities, women and suspected Communist-sympathizers.  Just because it's not on a big media tent pole doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Correspondingly, this is probably why no one really cares about it.  It's political rather than personal.

[clacy]

I think the bigger problem is that no one cares.  The media has turned a blind eye.  Using the IRS to persecute political foes may be one of the most hideous tactics ever by an administration.  Dating back just 15-20 years ago, I feel like regardless of which side of the isle you voted for, people would be outraged by this type of behavior. 

Oh please, this is child's play compared to the outright terrorism the U.S. government engaged in under Hoover and various Presidents against blacks, minorities, women and suspected Communist-sympathizers.  Just because it's not on a big media tent pole doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Correspondingly, this is probably why no one really cares about it.  It's political rather than personal.

Yes, and we killed a lot of Native Americans, so now anything short of that is not worth worrying about.

[Pointedstick]

Yes, and we killed a lot of Native Americans, so now anything short of that is not worth worrying about.

More like saying that something is "one of the most hideous tactics ever by an administration" is hyperbolic in proportion to how short it falls of the outright extermination campaign you bring up.  Sure, the IRS scandal is bad. But let's not pretend that it's the sort of thing that's remotely unique in the history of political scandals or even outright thuggery and violence. Lies, intimidation, misdirection, revenge… these are simply the normal tools in a high-level politician's toolbox. I mean, Watergate? Valerie Plame? Gulf of Tonkin incident? Phony Iraq war intelligence? Waco? Drone striking Americans? I could go on and on…

[Benko]

Yes, and we killed a lot of Native Americans, so now anything short of that is not worth worrying about.

More like saying that something is "one of the most hideous tactics ever by an administration" is hyperbolic in proportion to how short it falls of the outright extermination campaign you bring up. Sure, the IRS scandal is bad. But let's not pretend that it's the sort of thing that's remotely unique in the history of political scandals or even outright thuggery and violence. Lies, intimidation, misdirection, revenge-… these are simply the normal tools in a high-level politician's toolbox. I mean, Watergate? Valerie Plame? Gulf of Tonkin incident? Phony Iraq war intelligence? Waco? Drone striking Americans? I could go on and on…

They (administrations/presidents) are not all equally bad, and I can't imagine you believe that they are.  Or does everyone here still beleive that a Romney presidency would have not been significantly different?

[Pointedstick]

They (administrations/presidents) are not all equally bad, and I can't imagine you believe that they are.  Or does everyone here still beleive that a Romney presidency would have not been significantly different?

They are all bad in various ways and good in various ways. How you interpret this depends on what you see as good and what you see as bad. For example, Carter was bad for those who wanted a muscular foreign policy and a strong and confident executive, but it was good for those who favored deregulation (he deregulated trucking, rail freight, airlines, telecom, banking, and electricity generation). Clinton was terrible for gun owners but good for corporations looking to outsource production. Etc.

[MachineGhost]

They (administrations/presidents) are not all equally bad, and I can't imagine you believe that they are.  Or does everyone here still beleive that a Romney presidency would have not been significantly different?

At least Romney was honest about his NeoCon ideology and he might have actually respected the office.  But OBAMA!?  He is but a child in over his head which is what I said in the months preceding his re-election.  I just didn't know how deeply right I was.

[Benko]

They (administrations/presidents) are not all equally bad, and I can't imagine you believe that they are.  Or does everyone here still beleive that a Romney presidency would have not been significantly different?

They are all bad in various ways and good in various ways.

This is concentrating on trees and not looking, or acknowledging that there is even a valid larger picture.  It is also a really good way of deflecting from what is going on now, but that is not your style.  But I suppose that you listed valerie Plume in the same sentence with Waco and Watergate is consistent with some political equivalent of moral relativism. 

[clacy]

Yes, and we killed a lot of Native Americans, so now anything short of that is not worth worrying about.

More like saying that something is "one of the most hideous tactics ever by an administration" is hyperbolic in proportion to how short it falls of the outright extermination campaign you bring up.  Sure, the IRS scandal is bad. But let's not pretend that it's the sort of thing that's remotely unique in the history of political scandals or even outright thuggery and violence. Lies, intimidation, misdirection, revenge… these are simply the normal tools in a high-level politician's toolbox. I mean, Watergate? Valerie Plame? Gulf of Tonkin incident? Phony Iraq war intelligence? Waco? Drone striking Americans? I could go on and on…

See, I actually believe using the power of the IRS to punish those that don't agree with you is relatively speaking very hideous.  If this tactic goes unchecked and is repeated/increased/etc, you're moving rapidly into banana republic territory as a government. 

In today's world, the IRS is extremely powerful and quite a deterrent to illegal behavior.  If it morphs into the President's "hand of the king" (game of thrones reference), then you lose all credibility as a government, IMO.

[Pointedstick]

See, I actually believe using the power of the IRS to punish those that don't agree with you is relatively speaking very hideous.  If this tactic goes unchecked and is repeated/increased/etc, you're moving rapidly into banana republic territory as a government. 

In today's world, the IRS is extremely powerful and quite a deterrent to illegal behavior.  If it morphs into the President's "hand of the king" (game of thrones reference), then you lose all credibility as a government, IMO.

I guess I'm so jaded that I see us as already there. It's simply not surprising to me when the apparatuses of government power are used to hurt innocent people. That simply seems to be what government does.

[Benko]

http://blogs.wsj.com/peggynoonan/2014/0 ... -scandals/

She brings up watergate and then compares that to this and why this is important:

The mischief of the Nixon administration was specific to it, to its personnel. When Chuck Colson left, he left. All the figures in that drama failed to permanently disfigure the edifice of government. They got caught, and their particular brand of mischief ended.

But the IRS scandal is different, because if it isn’t stopped—if it isn’t fully uncovered, exposed, and its instigators held accountable—it will suggest an acceptance of the politicization of the IRS, and an expected and assumed partisanship within its future actions. That will be terrible not only for citizens but for the government itself.

And the IRS scandal will also have disfigured government in a new and killing way. IRS scandals in the past were about the powerful (Richard Nixon) abusing the powerful (Edward Bennett Williams). This scandal is about the powerful (Lois Lerner, et a.) abusing the not-powerful (normal, on-the-ground Americans such as rural tea-party groups). If it comes to be understood that this kind of thing is how the government now does business, it will be terrible for the spirit and reality of the country.

[Mountaineer]

See, I actually believe using the power of the IRS to punish those that don't agree with you is relatively speaking very hideous.  If this tactic goes unchecked and is repeated/increased/etc, you're moving rapidly into banana republic territory as a government. 

In today's world, the IRS is extremely powerful and quite a deterrent to illegal behavior.  If it morphs into the President's "hand of the king" (game of thrones reference), then you lose all credibility as a government, IMO.

I guess I'm so jaded that I see us as already there. It's simply not surprising to me when the apparatuses of government power are used to hurt innocent people. That simply seems to be what government does.

Pass another helping of bananas, please. 

... Mountaineer

[MachineGhost]

In today's world, the IRS is extremely powerful and quite a deterrent to illegal behavior.  If it morphs into the President's "hand of the king" (game of thrones reference), then you lose all credibility as a government, IMO.

The IRS still pales in comparison to the FDA.  They've been unchecked terrorists for literally decades upon decades.  You have literally no idea how draconian and tyrannical it was before DHSEA passed in 1994.  No free speech at all (nevermind actually practicting what you preach) or its prison time for you!  It would make your jaw drop and your testicles shrivel.  The IRS is easy to deal with 'cuz they're full of stupid bureaucrats that don't think outside the box and are bounded by the IRS code which anyone can read and use against them if you overcome the silly fear propaganda they spew out every April.  OTOH, the FDA is literally full of belligerent and malevolent career-driven, crony corrupt assholes that ignore the law and jack boot stomp on any and all faces outside the box.  You just don't hear as much about FDA transgressions of human rights because the Pharm companies have such a death grip of financial control over virtually all the institutions and media outlets.

Hopefully, we can nip this IRS problem in the bud.  But don't hold your breath.  Even the FDA isn't completely strangled and it constantly tries to break out of its chains.  I will probably have to spend the rest of my life making sure this Fraud and Death Administration doesn't turn into Mega-Godzilla.

[Benko]

MG,

The DEA can't audit you if you speak out againt a political party you don't agree with.

[moda0306]

Maybe I've been unplugged from cable news outlets for too long, but didn't they find that the IRS focused not just on conservative organizations?  Is this something new?

[clacy]

Maybe I've been unplugged from cable news outlets for too long, but didn't they find that the IRS focused not just on conservative organizations?  Is this something new?

i am not an expert on the subject but i believe it was reported within a week or two of the "IRS targeted liberals too" story, that it came out that it was a very small fraction of the number of tea party, conservative groups that were looked into, and that those were resolved and OK'ed almost immediately in comparison to the time the others were held up....

From the Wall Street Journal....

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/09/1 ... ed-by-irs/

Of the 298 applications that were collected and put on hold by the Internal Revenue Service between mid-2010 and mid-2012, 248, or 83%, were right-leaning, while 29, or 10%, were left-leaning.

-----

Now curiously, Lois Lerner and 6 others at the heart of the scandal's emails from 2009-2011 are lost.  I wonder what they're hiding??

[MachineGhost]

The DEA can't audit you if you speak out againt a political party you don't agree with.

Audits per se aren't to be feared.  Its the trumping up of charges due to political bias, that is.  That's the real worry.  It's not like many Republicans are gonna be working at the IRS!

Unfortunately, so far the IRS response to this fracas is to attempt to grab even more political power in determining who can and cannot be allowed to speak "free" political speech as a non-profit.  WRONG DIRECTION!!!

I hate to sound like Reub, but I fear two more years of this B.S. from OBAMA! and we'll be lucky to still be a first world country.  All our respected institutions are blowing up left and right.

[clacy]

You have to wonder why the IRS and the White House are going to such lengths to protect Lois Lerner.

Normally a mid-level executive like her would be thrown to the wolves so they could put the scandal behind them.

[Kshartle]

You have to wonder why the IRS and the White House are going to such lengths to protect Lois Lerner.

Normally a mid-level executive like her would be thrown to the wolves so they could put the scandal behind them.

Maybe she refused to be scpegoated and all the assasins are busy. Maybe she dug in and struck a better deal forcing them to just put on this nonsense obvious fraud show.

[Pointedstick]

Fraud and Death Administration

Hahahahahahah I love it!