MediumTex wrote:
Based upon the Christian worldview being described above, it seems like the following conclusions would logically flow:
1. Prior to Jesus's ministry, Heaven was populated exclusively by Jewish people. Prior to Jesus's ministry, all non-Jews and Jews who didn't obey the Law went to Hell where they will suffer for all of eternity.
AND
2. After Jesus's ministry, Heaven was populated almost exclusively by non-Jewish people (with the exception of the small population of messianic Jews). After Jesus's ministry, most Jews have gone to Hell, where they will suffer for eternity.
***
In other words, the identical behavior--i.e., a Jewish person following the Law--at one point in time was a ticket to Heaven, and at another point in time was a ticket to Hell. When you really think about it, there would have to have been a moment in time (unless there were some kind of "phase-in period") where literally all Jews who died before it would go to Heaven and all Jews who died after it would go to Hell based upon the identical beliefs and actions during life.
I know that God moves in mysterious ways, but the idea that all of the Jews who Hitler slaughtered are now in Hell, while Hitler is now in Heaven (he was a Christian, after all) just strikes me as very dissonant.
In fact, the whole idea of the Jewish God basically setting things up so that Jews who follow the Jewish Law will suffer in Hell for all of eternity doesn't make sense to me. The response to that observation may be: "Well, it may not make any sense, but that's the way it works." Sometimes, though, if enough things don't make any sense, it can be a way of realizing that a certain set of beliefs may not be true.
For example:
Who did Adam and Eve's son Cain marry?
How did Noah fit all of the animals in the world in one boat? Even if you could travel the whole world to collect all of those animals (which you couldn't back then), they simply wouldn't fit in a single boat that could have been built back then.
How do the cave paintings by primitive humans all over the world fit into the Adam and Eve creation story? If the Bible is inerrant, the geneology starting with Adam and Eve only goes back 6,000 years or so. How do we overlay that with what we otherwise know about the history of our own species?
Where does Neanderthal man fit into the Adam and Even/Garden of Eden narrative? Was the Garden of Eden a paradise for Cro-Magnon man only?
Is it possible that Satan is the one who buried all of those bones and did those cave paintings just to throw people off of the one true path?
Those are just a few things that cross my mind here and there.
Hi all,
I read the 1st ten pages of thread...maybe this is already addressed from pages 11 forward...if not...
These are good questions MT.
My understanding, from the historic Catholic perspective, needs a little background. Mountaineer posted the Apostles Creed, which says, in part, that Jesus descended into Hell after he was crucified. My understanding is that the hell he descended to is different from the hell of the damned, who will remain there for all eternity (no more chance of redemption...they have consciously made this choice, like the angels who rebelled against God). The hell Jesus went down to was more like a holding place for the Just, who were waiting for the Sacrifice on Calvary to occur. It was hell because they were not able to be fully united with God in heaven yet. Jesus went down to bring them into heaven. This is why the dead were raised after the Resurrection and points to the belief that our bodies, even today, will rise from the grave, in the future.
Religious types seemingly get high on their faith; if they can manage that with no factual evidence, you can surely find uplifting things to focus on. It requires constant discipline to turn from the focusing on the negative to the positive everytime you find yourself starting to do it. You won't be able to do it 100% of the time after the initial break-in period, but the point is the art of the discipline and distraction, not perfection.
