Record High in U.S. Say Big Government Greatest Threat

[ns2]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/166535/recor ... m_term=All

I really don't know what to make of this Gallup poll. 72% of people say that big government is the greatest threat to the U.S. which sounds like a very healthy thing for the Republic to me (and Thomas Jefferson would be pleased), but how do you explain the past elections? Since Clinton famously declared that the era of big government is over we have had George W. Bush and Barack Obama, both elected twice - both big government on steroids in my book.

If 72% of people really believe that big government is the greatest threat to the U.S. why wouldn't they vote for libertarians like Ron Paul?

[Kshartle]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/166535/recor ... m_term=All

I really don't know what to make of this Gallup poll. 72% of people say that big government is the greatest threat to the U.S. which sounds like a very healthy thing for the Republic to me (and Thomas Jefferson would be pleased), but how do you explain the past elections? Since Clinton famously declared that the era of big government is over we have had George W. Bush and Barack Obama, both elected twice - both big government on steroids in my book.

If 72% of people really believe that big government is the greatest threat to the U.S. why wouldn't they vote for libertarians like Ron Paul?

Two reasons people didn't vote for Ron Paul for President:
1. The Republican National Committee (spit) cheated Ron Paul out of any chance to get the R nomination.
2. Almost no one will vote for someone who isn't a R or D, because that is "throwing their vote away".

As to why they voted for the specific scum that they did vote for, they thought the other one was worse.

I would bet 95% of voters don't know who the libertarian candidate was.

The nomination process is a complete scam. Paul won several states early (including a clear win in Iowa) and late but they could never let him win one officially. If it had been Paul vs. Romney from the start I think it would have been impossible for them to rig it for Romney. 

The media coverage is abhorrent.

I would not have voted, even if Paul had been nominated since I'm an anarchist. but it was very clear the repukes were going to make Romney the candidate from the start. They were basically throwing in the towel from the get-go by running a loser. I kept calling the two candidates Robomney. It was Coke vs. Pepsi.  I think every major poll showed Paul wiping the floor with Obama. The repukes would have been in big trouble then because it would expose them as the big government lovers they are. They would have had to align with the dems in Congress to oppose the president's measures to cut spending.

[ns2]

Two reasons people didn't vote for Ron Paul for President:
1. The Republican National Committee (spit) cheated Ron Paul out of any chance to get the R nomination.
2. Almost no one will vote for someone who isn't a R or D, because that is "throwing their vote away".

As to why they voted for the specific scum that they did vote for, they thought the other one was worse.

I would have to see the actual question as it was posed but I'm thinking there are a lot of reasons that people might think of Big Government as a threat and it might not actually have anything to do with liberty.

It could be along the lines of if the government gets too big and spread too thin they won't be able to pay my SS check (something I actually think about myself).

[dragoncar]

Well "big government" is a completely undefined term.  By it's very nature it implies "too big".  Whatever you think government should do, you will define as "normal government" and anything beyond that is "big government" (and anything less than that is "small government").  So of course people taking the poll said it's a problem.  Pollsters don't know how to word a meaningful poll.

[Pointedstick]

Well "big government" is a completely undefined term.  By it's very nature it implies "too big".  Whatever you think government should do, you will define as "normal government" and anything beyond that is "big government" (and anything less than that is "small government").  So of course people taking the poll said it's a problem.  Pollsters don't know how to word a meaningful poll.

In the pollsters' defense, the poll's other options were "Big business" and "Big labor".

[clacy]

The American electorate is not very smart, IMO.  They got upset at Bush for going into Iraq, after a majority was in favor of going in.  Substitute Iraq for Obamacare and Bush for Obama and we basically repeated the exact same situation recently. 

Everyone claims they are for reduced government spending until you actually put a name and/or dollar amounts to programs that you want to reduce and then they get upset.

They all "disapprove" of congress, but congressmen are re-elected at an alarming rate.

[Stunt]

It's an interesting chart.
Doesn't seem to track ideology but influence, power and flow of money. With the decline in union membership, concessions and right to work states, the downward trend makes sense. The blip down in 2001 shows the patriotism of the public rallying around government leadership at the expense of "big business". The next shock was the housing bubble where the government stepped in to bail out everyone and increased fed and treasury balance sheets.

Overall trend for big business looks flat and government is taking over the role of unions - the more power and influence one group has results in more fear of it getting larger.  One thing worth mentioning is power and influence of corporations is reflected in government through lobbying. Seems like government and business are volatile between each other due to this more prevalent relationship.

[dragoncar]

Well "big government" is a completely undefined term.  By it's very nature it implies "too big".  Whatever you think government should do, you will define as "normal government" and anything beyond that is "big government" (and anything less than that is "small government").  So of course people taking the poll said it's a problem.  Pollsters don't know how to word a meaningful poll.

In the pollsters' defense, the poll's other options were "Big business" and "Big labor".

Ah, so it wasn't even the "greatest threat" out of all possible threats, it was the greatest threat of the three farcical options.  Also, being a greater threat doesn't imply that big government is simply worse, it could also imply that it's more likely.  For example, I may think big labor is terrible but that labor unions are on the wane.  Thus, it's not a threat.

[Pointedstick]

Dragoncar, if you consider all three options to be farcical, I would be curious to know what you personally think the greatest threat facing the United States might be. Income inequality? Foreign invasion? Economic collapse? Secessionist civil war?

[Benko]

Well "big government" is a completely undefined term.  By it's very nature it implies "too big".  Whatever you think government should do, you will define as "normal government" and anything beyond that is "big government" (and anything less than that is "small government").  So of course people taking the poll said it's a problem.  Pollsters don't know how to word a meaningful poll.

In the pollsters' defense, the poll's other options were "Big business" and "Big labor".

Ah, so it wasn't even the "greatest threat" out of all possible threats, it was the greatest threat of the three farcical options.  Also, being a greater threat doesn't imply that big government is simply worse, it could also imply that it's more likely.  For example, I may think big labor is terrible but that labor unions are on the wane.  Thus, it's not a threat.

However in 2008 only 55% of people said gov't was the biggest threat.  Then a big gov't pres was elected, now 72% of people say big gov't is the biggest threat.  But I'm sure it is just a coincidence.

[Pointedstick]

However in 2008 only 55% of people said gov't was the biggest threat.  Then a big gov't pres was elected, now 72% of people say big gov't is the biggest threat.  But I'm sure it is just a coincidence.

Actually, I think it is a coincidence. For some reason, Democrats seem to get plastered with the "big government" smear a lot more than Republicans do, even when the Republicans are doing the kinds of things that are pretty big governmenty.

I mean, consider George W. Bush. This Republican ended his presidency with a lower percentage of people thinking that big government represented the biggest threat to the USA despite giving us the Department of Homeland Security, the TSA, Medicare Part D, endless bailouts of private corporations, and two wars--the biggest of big government programs, after all.

[RuralEngineer]

Well "big government" is a completely undefined term.  By it's very nature it implies "too big".  Whatever you think government should do, you will define as "normal government" and anything beyond that is "big government" (and anything less than that is "small government").  So of course people taking the poll said it's a problem.  Pollsters don't know how to word a meaningful poll.

I'm legitimately against Big Government, understanding that what we have today is too big and has been for quite a long time, and I still agree with this statement.  If the people were given a line by line list of all the things that would have to be removed in order to balance out the cessation of the spying, foreign wars, etc. that go along with big government I think that number would drop. 

My assertion is the number of people who prefer "freebies" to "freedom" far exceeds 28%.  I blame this poll result on the wording and public sentiment running high due to the NSA scandal (which is mostly temporary).

[dragoncar]

Dragoncar, if you consider all three options to be farcical, I would be curious to know what you personally think the greatest threat facing the United States might be. Income inequality? Foreign invasion? Economic collapse? Secessionist civil war?

No idea, which is why they are farcical.  I want to ask someone high up who gets national security and economic briefings what they think the biggest threat is.  Likely none of the above.  Maybe population explosion and concomitant resource exhaustion/depletion?

[Benko]

1. 

However in 2008 only 55% of people said gov't was the biggest threat.  Then a big gov't pres was elected, now 72% of people say big gov't is the biggest threat.  But I'm sure it is just a coincidence.

Actually, I think it is a coincidence. For some reason, Democrats seem to get plastered with the "big government" smear a lot more than Republicans do, even when the Republicans are doing the kinds of things that are pretty big governmenty.

I mean, consider George W. Bush. This Republican ended his presidency with a lower percentage of people thinking that big government represented the biggest threat to the USA despite giving us the Department of Homeland Security, the TSA, Medicare Part D, endless bailouts of private corporations, and two wars--the biggest of big government programs, after all.

Perhaps because bad and big governminty as he was, Bush didn't sick the IRS on his enemies, or fuck up people's health care? 

I don't remember if the NSA totalitarian stuff started under Bush or more recently. 

2.  "Maybe population explosion and concomitant resource exhaustion/depletion?"
Speaks for itself.

[Libertarian666]

Dragoncar, if you consider all three options to be farcical, I would be curious to know what you personally think the greatest threat facing the United States might be. Income inequality? Foreign invasion? Economic collapse? Secessionist civil war?

No idea, which is why they are farcical.  I want to ask someone high up who gets national security and economic briefings what they think the biggest threat is.  Likely none of the above.  Maybe population explosion and concomitant resource exhaustion/depletion?

Oh, that's easy. That person would think that the biggest threat is the possibility that the citizens will wake up to what is happening to them.

Of course, they would never tell you that. It's a big club, and you aren't in it.

[dragoncar]

Dragoncar, if you consider all three options to be farcical, I would be curious to know what you personally think the greatest threat facing the United States might be. Income inequality? Foreign invasion? Economic collapse? Secessionist civil war?

No idea, which is why they are farcical.  I want to ask someone high up who gets national security and economic briefings what they think the biggest threat is.  Likely none of the above.  Maybe population explosion and concomitant resource exhaustion/depletion?

Oh, that's easy. That person would think that the biggest threat is the possibility that the citizens will wake up to what is happening to them.

Of course, they would never tell you that. It's a big club, and you aren't in it.

Everyone has a different definition of threat.  Is a threat "to the US" the same as a threat to you?  Do you consider the US an institution, a collection of citizens, some land and borders or what?

[Libertarian666]

No idea, which is why they are farcical.  I want to ask someone high up who gets national security and economic briefings what they think the biggest threat is.  Likely none of the above.  Maybe population explosion and concomitant resource exhaustion/depletion?

Oh, that's easy. That person would think that the biggest threat is the possibility that the citizens will wake up to what is happening to them.

Of course, they would never tell you that. It's a big club, and you aren't in it.

Everyone has a different definition of threat.  Is a threat "to the US" the same as a threat to you?  Do you consider the US an institution, a collection of citizens, some land and borders or what?

What do I consider the US? A mass delusion fostered by people who profit from it.