Linux [was] bugging the crap out of me

[dualstow]

…which is the main reason I'm not going to post this at Linux forums.
Following up on Coffee's older thread: 

My built-for-linux laptop which came with Linux Mint 10 "Julia" is still running after 2 3/4 years, but two springs ago it lost the ability to download updates. Something about the repository address changing, I don't know.  Imagine Apple making its customers track down a new address and putting it in the right file just to update!

Since this machine has always been an overpriced but robust email & web machine, I didn't really care. However, in Linux you can't let Chrome update itself. You have to update the way you update anything on the machine, and that's broken. It doesn't seem safe to run such an old version of Chrome.

I did read the linux forums and found a person who had a similar problem, but they told him to update to a whole new version. I wonder how one updates to a new version without being able to update. It's like I need to update to fix my update problem. Quite a conundrum. Like those old ads with the mountaintop yogi pondering how to get a job without experience, and how to get experience without a job.

I think I could use my Mac to download an ISO file of the new version, but installers that make that file into a bootable USB thumb drive exist for Windows which I no longer have and Linux which...requires a download of the USB creator i.e. an update. Creating the same thing on the Mac seems to be geared toward *booting* it on a Mac, rather than on my silly linux laptop. Hmm.

Maybe I can create a bootable CD, hope that my external CD drive will work with the linux laptop, and hope further…

\\ end of rant

[KevinW]

Here are some alternative solutions to your problem:

- Read the update error message carefully enough that you actually understand what it is saying and then repair the problem.
- Most likely you installed a non-LTS release of Mint which is no longer supported, so updates are no longer available, as intended and documented. In the Linux world there are releases that are good for about a year and need to be upgraded every year, and ones that last multiple years. If you want to go multiple years without upgrades then you need to install something designed to work that way. If this is the issue you need to do multiple upgrades to catch up to a recent release that is still supported.
- You can copy an ISO to a USB drive with "dd" on the command line.
- You can compile a recent Chromium from source if you want something newer than the packages that are available.
- Linux is a volunteer effort; if you don't like how it works, you're always welcome to pitch in and improve it.
- If you like Apple products better, just buy those.

[Pointedstick]

Linux Mint 10 is old; sounds like they're not supporting it anymore. It's time to upgrade! 15 just came out a few months ago and it looks pretty cool. The bootable CD sounds like your best bet until you can upgrade. The USB upgrade path is a lot more robust now.

As KevinW alluded to, it sounds like Apple products might be more for you if you don't like fiddling with things as much. That's the trade-off you make when you use Linux: more power, control, and customizability, in exchange for higher demands on the technical skills and willingness of the user.

[dualstow]

Thanks, Kevin.

I don't know what LTS is, but I haven't installed anything. Version 10 came with the computer.
Apparently I have something that was meant to be upgraded after a year, but did not know that. In fact, what I saw on the official mint website was
A) updating may break your system, and
B) you don't HAVE to update.
These are verbatim quotes. I should have ignored them and updated to 11, 12 and so on.

I certainly wish I could pitch in and improve Linux the way I put time into wikipedia. Alas, my applied programming experience mostly ended with BASIC in the mid eighties. Since then it's just been passive (reading).

I plan to keep buying Apple products, but this laptop was $610 and it would be a shame to let it sit idle. I don't have the skills to make it a hackintosh, so I figure a new version of Linux will pave the way to a new version of Chrome, and then I'm all set again.

I appreciate the reply.

[dualstow]

Thank you, PS.
Yeah, I think I'll burn a CD and see how that works.

[Pointedstick]

LTS = Long Term Support. i.e. we'll make sure it gets updates for many years.

[KevinW]

Actually you might want to go with Mint 13 LTS:
http://www.linuxmint.com/oldreleases.php
As stated it will be supported until 2017. Mint 15 is a regular release and will only be good for about a year.

[Pointedstick]

Keep in mind that a Linux Mint upgrade isn't like an Apple upgrade; it's basically an erase install in that you'll need to restore your home folder and software manually afterwards. So make sure you have a backup of your data you can use for the restore after you upgrade. But you already had a backup, right? 

If the machine is basically just a frontend for Chrome, this might not matter much.

[dualstow]

Ah, ok, so LTS means long-term service EDIT: support, I see or something like that. I think you're right, that older version (but newer than what I have) is good for me.
Thanks!

I do have a backup of the laptop. The whole drive is just a 40GB sollid-state, and mostly empty. Yeah, it's all a vehicle for Chrome, although I used to play with it to learn how to use the command line after reading that Neal Stephenson book.

Thanks guys.

[dualstow]

One quick question guys: do you know how to make a Linux Mint machine boot from a DVD?

I had an Ubuntu, not Mint, ISO file already downloaded before I began this thread. So, I tested my external DVD drive with the linux laptop and it works. (Plays a Hendrix CD). I plugged the DVD drive back into the Mac and burned the ISO file using Disk Utility per Ubuntu official instructions. Burned fine.

The laptop shows the DVD exists, but is otherwise unimpressed with it. I opened it up and saw an exe file, wubi.exe, which looks like it's for windows. Still, this should be an all-purpose ISO, right? I restarted the laptop with the DVD in the drive- nope. I restarted and held down the shift button, remembering that this may have gotten me into a PC's BIOS once upon a time. It paused until I let go and then- nope.

Any ideas?

[Pointedstick]

When the machine starts up, there should be a brief splash screen telling you which key gets you into the BIOS. Could be F2, F9, Delete, or one of a few other things.

Once you're in the BIOS, change the device boot order so that the optical drive is first on the list.

Then restart with the DVD in the drive and it should boot from it. Once you've changed the boot order, there's no need to change it back. It'll only try to boot from an optical disk that's actually bootable, so no worries about restarting with an audio cd in the drive and getting iTunesOS or something.

[dualstow]

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have stopped at SHIFT. The startup is really fast and I don't think I see any keys mentioned on the splash screen, but I'll try all the function keys. Thanks!

[Pointedstick]

What's the model of computer? You can look up which BIOS came with that computer, and then from there find out which key that BIOS uses.

[dualstow]

Yay! We have lift-off! 
There was a splash screen before the other splash screen which I never really paid attention to, and sure enough it lists the F10 key at the very bottom. I'm on the Try Ubuntu / Install Ubuntu page, and can certainly take it from there.

Thank you so much for not sending me to the linux forums.

ADDED: Just saw your post immediately above this one. For what it's worth, it's a ZaReason Terra HD notebook. I believe they have been discontinued. Nice aluminum finish but many issues that are not Linux Mint's fault. Ironically, in Coffee's thread mentioned in the OP of this thread, I spoke about how I was buying a dedicated Linux computer so that I could pretty much rule out hardware issues. Pretty much....

[dualstow]

One last note: there are keys working, at least in this trial mode, that never worked with Linux Mint 10. Specifically Fn + PageUp and Fn + PageDn. Now I'm sure some bright spark like you or Kevin could redo the keybinding, but I never tried that. I'm just noting that it's working in Ubuntu, so the laptop is exonerated. ;-)

[Pointedstick]

ADDED: Just saw your post immediately above this one. For what it's worth, it's a ZaReason Terra HD notebook. I believe they have been discontinued. Nice aluminum finish but many issues that are not Linux Mint's fault. Ironically, in Coffee's thread mentioned in the OP of this thread, I spoke about how I was buying a dedicated Linux computer so that I could pretty much rule out hardware issues. Pretty much....

A friend just bought a $230 (!!!) Ubuntu laptop for her time in the peace corps. They sure can make 'em cheap when you cut out the cost of a Windows license! I'm hoping she likes it. Linux seems like a very good choice for a basic, inexpensive computer where you're probably not going to be plugging esoteric hardware or requiring super-specialized software.

[dualstow]

ASUS, I like it. I originally was going to buy a very cheap used laptop, call it a "craptop."
I went with this more expensive dedicated machine for reasons mentioned, and then I made it more expensive by making the drive an SSD.
{ok, the cursor still moves but I seem to have lost all contact with the live CD. I guess I need to install it to get the real experience. And I will. And I will keep quiet about it whether it works or not. ; - ) }

[dualstow]

Do you guys think a Linux notebook is preferable to a Chromebook for someone not familiar with Linux?

I heard they were pretty junky but I think Coffee bought one to try out while his main computer is in the shop. Maybe he'll review it.

[whatchamacallit]

Do you guys think a Linux notebook is preferable to a Chromebook for someone not familiar with Linux?

I bought a samsung chromebook and love it. If you already have the hardware, linux will work but if your buying the hardware, chromebook is better.

In reality, it is just a more functional tablet with a keyboard. I can't see a reason for having a tablet and a chromebook. I never had a tablet but I would assume websites respond better to the full version of chrome on the chromebooks.

The only time I need my windows desktop is when I have to print because I have an old printer. This can be solved by buying a newer printer with google cloud print built in.

Another good thing about chromebooks is that since you are always logged into google, you have two backups of your files. One at google and one at the NSA.

[dualstow]

I am typing this from a fresh install of Ubuntu quantal quetzal Precise Pangolin. Feels good. Will feel better when I have Chrome (Chromium?) installed.
I was just going to test the new DVD, as the first was a 32-bit and I needed 64-bit, but it gave me the option of installing this alongside Linux Mint, leaving it intact. Probably a bit shortsighted since I'll want to wipe it out later, but that's ok. Great to get the install done!

...
The only time I need my windows desktop is when I have to print because I have an old printer. This can be solved by buying a newer printer with google cloud print built in.

Another good thing about chromebooks is that since you are always logged into google, you have two backups of your files. One at google and one at the NSA.

Hah! I looked up google cloud print before even reading your last line above and thought, I don't think the Unabomber would want to print his manifesto using that service, but it might be ok for me.

EDIT: only changed version name.

[KevinW]

Do you guys think a Linux notebook is preferable to a Chromebook for someone not familiar with Linux?

It depends on how you prioritize privacy and control versus convenience. Linux is more complex (not as bad as it used to be, but still certainly more complicated than Chrome OS) but you get complete control over the software on your computer and who has access to your data. Chromebook is simpler and smoother, and Google does all the hard stuff for you (e.g. backups), but that means all your data is routed through Google which may or may not be a privacy concern for you.

I.e.

...I don't think the Unabomber would want to print his manifesto using that service, but it might be ok for me.

Also a Chromebook is nearly useless without an internet connection, which is probably fine for home use, but can be a liability in certain situations like the Peace Corps or airplane trips.

[Pointedstick]

Also a Chromebook is nearly useless without an internet connection, which is probably fine for home use, but can be a liability in certain situations like the Peace Corps or airplane trips.

That was in fact exactly why my Peace Corps friend didn't go with a Chromebook.

[gizmo_rat]

Chrome OS has evolved to the point where it's piqued my interest, however google has evolved to the point that I view chromebooks as prototypes for government issued computers. I'll just wait till they issue me one and filter out unsafe sites for me.

Ubuntu though has evolved to the point that I put it on my kids computers as the first boot choice, it's still faster than windows and I don't have to spend a couple of hours every few months fighting infestations of crapware.   

[dualstow]

..
Ubuntu though has evolved to the point that I put it on my kids computers as the first boot choice,

In the older thread, you wrote that you always find them choosing Windows 7. Is that still the case?

[gizmo_rat]

In the older thread, you wrote that you always find them choosing Windows 7. Is that still the case?

I have more strongly encouraged them to use linux for web browsing, they have both now seen the results of sneaky crapware installation and drive-by virus downloads on Windows.

I suspect they would just prefer to use Windows all of the time for convenience and familiarity, but there is an awareness now of the potential inconvenience. 

I used to get quite annoyed with the amount of effort I was putting in to keep their machines functional, but having seen a drive-by virus injection from a compromised education site that went straight through the virus protection I realise that you can't educate to avoid that.