Non-Governmental violence

[Kshartle]

Or Salem in the 1690's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials

Uhhhh..isn't the court part of the government?

Why didn't one of your ancestors ride in on his unicorn to save the day?

He was busy creating wealth with his magical prosperity printing press no doubt.

[Kshartle]

You are invoking the Geraldine Jones defense? 

Seriously?

I don't know who Geraldine Jones is and defense of what?

[Kshartle]

You are invoking the Geraldine Jones defense? 

Seriously?

You mentioned a mythical creature that only exists in fantasy so I thought I would add to the story and conjur up an even bigger myth, the magical prosperity printing press.

[moda0306]

You are invoking the Geraldine Jones defense? 

Seriously?

You mentioned a mythical creature that only exists in fantasy so I thought I would add to the story and conjur up an even bigger myth, the magical prosperity printing press.

Neither Gumby or I think QE is going to create much prosperity. 

And what about the magical inflationary pressure of a fiat financial asset swap?

[Kshartle]

You are invoking the Geraldine Jones defense? 

Seriously?

You mentioned a mythical creature that only exists in fantasy so I thought I would add to the story and conjur up an even bigger myth, the magical prosperity printing press.

Neither Gumby or I think QE is going to create much prosperity. 

And what about the magical inflationary pressure of a fiat financial asset swap?

There's a lot of magical possibilities

[moda0306]

I love how we're being asked to dismantle government as it's illegitimate because it uses force, but are then asked to accept mob rule types of force where communities just get to enact justice ok their own however they see fit.

Thanks, but I'll stick with at least the off-chance at due process.

[Libertarian666]

I love how we're being asked to dismantle government as it's illegitimate because it uses force, but are then asked to accept mob rule types of force where communities just get to enact justice ok their own however they see fit.

Thanks, but I'll stick with at least the off-chance at due process.

i cant say exactly what others are asking for... but i would say that since government is force, and more government equals more force, and the more responsibility the government claims to have over people the less responsibility they take for their own behavior.... the worse off we are.
i would love to see us in a state of always having slightly less government than we need, creating a situation that forces/encourages/educates people to adopt higher personal standards of responsibility and respect for life and property. and the higher and more widespread those standard become, the more enlightened our society gets, the more we reduce government to maintain that level of slightly less than we need...

the idea we are brutish thugs that can only survive under the heels of brutish thugs and that the only solution to any and every problem is more brutish thuggery seem grossly illogical, and horribly pessimistic about the human condition..

But sadly, it is quite normal for people who have those tendencies themselves to think that everyone else has them.

[doodle]

I love how we're being asked to dismantle government as it's illegitimate because it uses force, but are then asked to accept mob rule types of force where communities just get to enact justice ok their own however they see fit.

Thanks, but I'll stick with at least the off-chance at due process.

i cant say exactly what others are asking for... but i would say that since government is force, and more government equals more force, and the more responsibility the government claims to have over people the less responsibility they take for their own behavior.... the worse off we are.
i would love to see us in a state of always having slightly less government than we need, creating a situation that forces/encourages/educates people to adopt higher personal standards of responsibility and respect for life and property. and the higher and more widespread those standard become, the more enlightened our society gets, the more we reduce government to maintain that level of slightly less than we need...

the idea we are brutish thugs that can only survive under the heels of brutish thugs and that the only solution to any and every problem is more brutish thuggery seem grossly illogical, and horribly pessimistic about the human condition..

But sadly, it is quite normal for people who have those tendencies themselves to think that everyone else has them.

I think you guys are painfully naive when it comes to human history and our evolutionary biology. We are very capable of brutal thuggery and our DNA still makes us very predisposed towards violence, anger, greed and other destructive behaviors. Homo Sapiens are not kind creatures....we are in fact the single most deadly and destructive species that has ever existed on this planet. Not only towards one another, but towards all other animal species. This violence is not the result of governments. It is clearly evident in archaelogical records dating back hundreds of thousands of years long before any governments existed. We're it not for the overarching cultural, religious, and political frameworks that bond us together in nation states and organize our labor, we would still be roaming around in small violent packs like our chimpanzee ancestors.

All of us have grown up with free markets and capitalism and think that somehow this is a natural means of organizing and structuring human social relations and societies. Im telling you it's as unnatural to our historical evolution as twinkles and pop tarts are to our diet.

we would still be roaming around in small violent packs like our chimpanzee ancestors.

All of us have grown up with free markets and capitalism and think that somehow this is a natural means of organizing and structuring human social relations and societies. Im telling you it's as unnatural to our historical evolution as twinkles and pop tarts are to our diet.

and collectivism is natural to our historical evolution?

[Libertarian666]

i think doodle is trying to help prove Libertarian666 point for him 

doodle we aren't say government is the "first" cause of violence, anger, greed and other destructive behaviors. Humans being violent, angry, greedy and having other destructive behaviors is made worse by giving groups of those same humans excessive power over others.

Exactly.

those  overarching cultural, religious, and political frameworks that bond us together in nation states can result in moving us toward a society with enlightenment/liberty or tyranny/suffering. 
to move toward liberty and enlightenment you need more freedom and more people accepting responsibility for, and taking control of their actions ...  to move toward tyranny and suffering just take away freedom and responsibility.

Yep.

[Pointedstick]

those  overarching cultural, religious, and political frameworks that bond us together in nation states can result in moving us toward a society with enlightenment/liberty or tyranny/suffering. 
to move toward liberty and enlightenment you need more freedom and more people accepting responsibility for, and taking control of their actions ...  to move toward tyranny and suffering just take away freedom and responsibility.

Yep.

Yep x2.