The problem with socialism is .....

[notsheigetz]

... that eventually you run out of toilet paper....

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/venezuela-orde ... 37055.html

[Pointedstick]

The real problem with socialism is that it's no fun. Socialism is marred by things like chronic shortages, heavy-handed policies, and curtailment of a variety of fun activities ranging from internet pornography to target shooting.

People who prefer fun and entertainment will reject it in favor of the corporate hegemony, which has given us organized sports, music, pornography, video games, reality TV, action movies, paintball, you name it. The corporate hegemony is more fun.

[doodle]

The real problem with socialism is that it's no fun. Socialism is marred by things like chronic shortages, heavy-handed policies, and curtailment of a variety of fun activities ranging from internet pornography to target shooting.

People who prefer fun and entertainment will reject it in favor of the corporate hegemony, which has given us organized sports, music, pornography, video games, reality TV, action movies, paintball, you name it. The corporate hegemony is more fun.

Really? I have lived and traveled in northern European socialist countries and they were pretty happy places as far as I can remember.

Corporate hegemony...like Monsanto?

[Pointedstick]

have lived and traveled in northern European socialist countries and they were pretty happy places as far as I can remember.

Corporate hegemony...like Monsanto?

IMHO northern European countries are an outlier because they have the cultural mentality and homogeneity to make socialism work, by and large. Both of these factors promote social cohesion, and the Scandanavians don't seem to be as novelty-seeking as Americans, which further enhances the tolerance of socialism and makes the constant pleasure of the corporate hegemony less attractive.

What I'm saying I guess is that socialism tends toward scarcity while corporatist capitalism tends to excess. And at least here in America, we sure do prefer our excess. These tendencies can be tempered and the systems tweaked, but it is what it is. You'll never see a corporatist country with a bread line or a shortage of toilet paper…

[koekebakker]

Really? I have lived and traveled in northern European socialist countries and they were pretty happy places as far as I can remember.
Corporate hegemony...like Monsanto?

Such a persistent myth...  Is it the US media that reinforces the idea that somewhere in Western Europe there are socialist countries? I've lived there all my life and I've never heard of any.

[doodle]

have lived and traveled in northern European socialist countries and they were pretty happy places as far as I can remember.

Corporate hegemony...like Monsanto?

IMHO northern European countries are an outlier because they have the cultural mentality and homogeneity to make socialism work, by and large. Both of these factors promote social cohesion, and the Scandanavians don't seem to be as novelty-seeking as Americans, which further enhances the tolerance of socialism and makes the constant pleasure of the corporate hegemony less attractive.

What I'm saying I guess is that socialism tends toward scarcity while corporatist capitalism tends to excess. And at least here in America, we sure do prefer our excess. These tendencies can be tempered and the systems tweaked, but it is what it is. You'll never see a corporatist country with a bread line or a shortage of toilet paper…

No, but you will find a corporatist country with a lot of miserable, disillusioned and alienated people not to mention a lot of disparity and poverty. From what I have seen, socialism is more in line with humans evolutionary biology and historical living conditions.

Why are northern European countries an outlier? Perhaps they should be a model....

Watch lecture 6 in the humankind course if you get a chance this weekend. I think you will find it interesting

[notsheigetz]

Really? I have lived and traveled in northern European socialist countries and they were pretty happy places as far as I can remember.
Corporate hegemony...like Monsanto?

Such a persistent myth...  Is it the US media that reinforces the idea that somewhere in Western Europe there are socialist countries? I've lived there all my life and I've never heard of any.

Yes indeed. The names of those socialist countries referred to by doodle would be useful.

[Pointedstick]

No, but you will find a corporatist country with a lot of miserable, disillusioned and alienated people not to mention a lot of disparity and poverty.

However, they will have a lot of luxury trucks, video games, and firearms, listen to a variety of popular music, hold opinions on all the latest TV shows, and take bi-annual trips to Disneyworld or Hawaii.

For the purpose of this discussion so far, I'm not saying one is better. Just saying that I think socialism fails at fulfilling several basic human needs, especially for plenty and stimulation.

Furthermore, using Europe as a model for the benefits of socialism seems like a poor plan given that there actually are a very large number of miserable, disillusioned and alienated people and huge wealth disparities there right now. In some European countries, unemployment is 25% or more and there is net out-migration as people flee for more corporatist nations with greater prosperity and opportunity. If this is what we should be shooting for, you're going to have to make a better case.

[moda0306]

Really? I have lived and traveled in northern European socialist countries and they were pretty happy places as far as I can remember.
Corporate hegemony...like Monsanto?

Such a persistent myth...  Is it the US media that reinforces the idea that somewhere in Western Europe there are socialist countries? I've lived there all my life and I've never heard of any.

Yes indeed. The names of those socialist countries referred to by doodle would be useful.

It's all a sliding scale.  There is no perfect free market economy nor is there a perfect communist dictatorship.

The economies of Europe have very centralized education, transportation and healthcare systems compared to the US.  Many would call this socialism-light at least.