Tax loss harvesting

[jason]

Hi everyone,

I want to tax-harvest both my gold and treasury losses.  My gold allocation is 80% GTU and 20% IAU, and I own actual treasuries.  I do not want to own TLT due to third party risk.  I am also reluctant to sell any GTU right now due to the huge discount it is selling at, 5.8% as of yesterday's close.  I'm thinking I could sell my IAU and buy more GTU to harvest my IAU losses, but I kind of wanted to have some IAU handy in case I ever needed to sell gold to re-balance during a time when GTU was selling at a huge discount, so I am reluctant to sell my IAU now.  If I sell GTU now and buy IAU back in 31 days, I run the risk that gold could go way up and I could incur taxable short term gains.  Is there anything I can do, or am I just stuck? 

[Libertarian666]

Hi everyone,

I want to tax-harvest both my gold and treasury losses.  My gold allocation is 80% GTU and 20% IAU, and I own actual treasuries.  I do not want to own TLT due to third party risk.  I am also reluctant to sell any GTU right now due to the huge discount it is selling at, 5.8% as of yesterday's close.  I'm thinking I could sell my IAU and buy more GTU to harvest my IAU losses, but I kind of wanted to have some IAU handy in case I ever needed to sell gold to re-balance during a time when GTU was selling at a huge discount, so I am reluctant to sell my IAU now.  If I sell GTU now and buy IAU back in 31 days, I run the risk that gold could go way up and I could incur taxable short term gains.  Is there anything I can do, or am I just stuck?

Check with your tax advisor, but my understanding is that "collectibles" such as gold, including things like GTU and IAU, are not subject to the wash sale rule.

[jason]

Hi everyone,

I want to tax-harvest both my gold and treasury losses.  My gold allocation is 80% GTU and 20% IAU, and I own actual treasuries.  I do not want to own TLT due to third party risk.  I am also reluctant to sell any GTU right now due to the huge discount it is selling at, 5.8% as of yesterday's close.  I'm thinking I could sell my IAU and buy more GTU to harvest my IAU losses, but I kind of wanted to have some IAU handy in case I ever needed to sell gold to re-balance during a time when GTU was selling at a huge discount, so I am reluctant to sell my IAU now.  If I sell GTU now and buy IAU back in 31 days, I run the risk that gold could go way up and I could incur taxable short term gains.  Is there anything I can do, or am I just stuck?

Check with your tax advisor, but my understanding is that "collectibles" such as gold, including things like GTU and IAU, are not subject to the wash sale rule.

Wow, I didn't know that.  Based on a quick google search, I think you are right.  I will check with my CPA.  I could at least harvest my IAU losses.  GTU is not a collectible - it is a closed end fund, so I can't do that for GTU, unfortunately.  Is there anything I can do with my bonds?  I guess I regret buying GTU - I didn't consider how it would likely be selling at a high discount at times I would like to tax loss harvest.

[steve]

Hi everyone,

I want to tax-harvest both my gold and treasury losses.  My gold allocation is 80% GTU and 20% IAU, and I own actual treasuries.  I do not want to own TLT due to third party risk.  I am also reluctant to sell any GTU right now due to the huge discount it is selling at, 5.8% as of yesterday's close.  I'm thinking I could sell my IAU and buy more GTU to harvest my IAU losses, but I kind of wanted to have some IAU handy in case I ever needed to sell gold to re-balance during a time when GTU was selling at a huge discount, so I am reluctant to sell my IAU now.  If I sell GTU now and buy IAU back in 31 days, I run the risk that gold could go way up and I could incur taxable short term gains.  Is there anything I can do, or am I just stuck?

Check with your tax advisor, but my understanding is that "collectibles" such as gold, including things like GTU and IAU, are not subject to the wash sale rule.

As far as I know GTU is a closed end fund and not considered  "collectibles" so it would be subject to wash sales rules , IAU GLD are considered collectables.

I hold GTU and in the past when I could have sold it for a tax loss harvest I did not. The beauty of GTU for a PP investor is the premium is usually low when it is time to buy and high when it is time to sell. If I had IAU and GTU I would sell IAU and buy GTU and get the bonus on the discounted premium, and get the tax loss for IAU, I would also sell treasuries for tax loss and buy EDV/VGLT and get the tax loss. After 31 days you could re evaluate and maybe buy back treasuries if you feel better about that, you may even get another tax loss to harvest who knows.  I would not worry about every single tax loss you could harvest, and I would be very happy holding GTU. If you tax loss harvest and then buy  back at a lower basis then you have to pay more tax on the other end when its time to re balance.  It probably balances out and not worth worrying about.  When gold goes up and everyone wants it and it is time for you to sell some I doubt very much that GTU will be selling at a discount, I have been following the discount premium for a long time. I do not think you will have any problem selling GTU in the future to re balance when it is the asset that is in favor, there is a very good chance when you sell you will capitalize on the premium.

[Reub]

I have rebalanced a portion of my gold holdings from IAU to GTU and, recently, back again. I did not wait for the 30 day wash rule because I believe them to be substantially different. Hope this helps.

[Xan]

The interesting question now is, can you sell and then immediately buy IAU?  Since it's considered a collectible as opposed to a security?

[Libertarian666]

The interesting question now is, can you sell and then immediately buy IAU?  Since it's considered a collectible as opposed to a security?

My understanding is that that should be possible without triggering the wash sale rule. But check with your tax adviser first.

[jason]

I have rebalanced a portion of my gold holdings from IAU to GTU and, recently, back again. I did not wait for the 30 day wash rule because I believe them to be substantially different. Hope this helps.

I think IAU and GTU are definitely substantially different.  They aren't even taxed at the same long term rate.  So, I don't think the wash rule applies.  The problem I have is that GTU is selling at a huge discount right now, so I am very reluctant to sell it and buy IAU, because I will take a big hit due to the discount.

[l82start]

if you watch GTU you might get the price you are looking for, it seems to me* it's premium moves often and by substantial amounts, 

*this is only based on what it did the few times i have watched it and i could be wrong...