Record Stretch of 7.5%+ Unemployment Continues

[Libertarian666]

Libertarian666,

Please enlighten us what complications lie in renouncing your citizenship.  And what control the US government has over you if you choose not to, but move overseas.

You are perfectly capable of doing your own research, but since you are happy here, it would be a waste of time for you to do it. I have done it for myself, and it is much more complex than can be explained in a brief message (or even a long one).

[Reub]

Libertarian666, please don't let that guy get to you.

[Libertarian666]

Libertarian666, please don't let that guy get to you.

I appreciate your concern, but if "internet tough guys" could ever rattle me, it was a long time ago... probably before the internet.

By the way, I knew HB personally (although as an acquaintance, not a close friend), and believe I understand his philosophy quite well. I agree with his take on most things, although of course not necessarily in every detail. In fact, he was a major influence on my thinking.

This is relevant because I'm sure he would be VERY concerned about the state of the US today, and would be counseling people to take precautions about its possible trajectory.

[MediumTex]

As I recall, there was a good piece posted on Zero Hedge a couple of years ago about the ins and outs of a U.S. citizen getting a passport to another country and renouncing U.S. citizenship if they chose to do so.

I agree that it's not simple and there are a LOT of things to think about.

***

On a more general note, there is no need to be adversarial or tense with one another here.  The discussions are better if we're all cool.

[moda0306]

Am I being an "Internet tough guy?"

I know I throw a bit of snark in here or there, but I find the discussion of liberty and government to be very interesting and I appreciate anyone willing to engage in productive debate. When I said "move out" and "renounce your citizenship" I didn't mean that nearly as aggressively as it probably sounded.  I'm just trying to dig in to what is truly keeping us from being free.  Just as HB tried to do.

I must have gotten spoiled by Gumby's use of sources at every possible turn an not having to look anything up online.  Sorry if I seemed needy and unwilling to do legwork.

[MediumTex]

Am I being an "Internet tough guy?"

It's that sound of heels digging in that bothers me, not because strongly held views are a problem, but because once the heels dig in it seems like it's harder to fairly evaluate what the other person is saying.

I'm not talking to anyone in particular, I just really really really don't want this to be a place that increases anyone's blood pressure.  There are already plenty of places on the internet to do that already.

I was in a taqueria one time and it was a total dump.  In one corner there was a little grimy looking TV and taped onto one side of it was a hand written note that said "No arguing about sports."  I always thought that was funny because I could only imagine the sequence of events that led to that sign being put up.  I don't want to have to put up any kind of signs like that here.

Talk about anything you want to talk about, just please be cordial with one another as much as you can.

[Libertarian666]

Am I being an "Internet tough guy?"

I know I throw a bit of snark in here or there, but I find the discussion of liberty and government to be very interesting and I appreciate anyone willing to engage in productive debate. When I said "move out" and "renounce your citizenship" I didn't mean that nearly as aggressively as it probably sounded.  I'm just trying to dig in to what is truly keeping us from being free.  Just as HB tried to do.

I must have gotten spoiled by Gumby's use of sources at every possible turn an not having to look anything up online.  Sorry if I seemed needy and unwilling to do legwork.

It is hard to gauge sincerity or snarkiness on the web. Apparently I have misjudged your intent; if you actually want to know what is involved in such a move, I can provide some pointers.

The hardest issue is getting citizenship in another country. The difficulty of doing that depends to a large extent on your family background; very few countries will welcome a newcomer with no previous connection. There are some exceptions, especially if he has a large amount of money and won't need to work there, but even in that case it is anything but easy. Most of the countries that any significant number of people want to move to are already feeling the strain of immigration.

So in general the countries that might be a possibility for any given person will be highly dependent on his family background and his financial resources. It's very difficult to be more specific without that information.

[moda0306]

Most of my line of debate, in my eyes, stems from a deep love of logic and asking questions to understand where someone's logic originates, sometimes pointed ones.  If a bit of sarcasm or snark enters in when someone supports what seems to me to be a very inconsistent logical framework, then I will try to revert to going back to pure logic or question-asking rather than snark from now on.

I've been able to have phenomenal discussions with Pointed Stick, involving some very large chasms of disagreement, without much sign he's being offended by what I say and plenty of mutual respecy, so I have to think that the more bubbling level of disrespectful tone that's developed between my and Libertarian666 or especially Reub has plenty to do with how they are approaching a discussion, not just myself being "that guy," or an "Internet tough guy." 

I don't want to toot my own horn amongst some very, very smart people, but I think I'm usually trying to push the debate forward, even if it involves challenging people's assumptions about property, money, rights, or the role of government.  I don't think I've been intellectually dense. I truly do build my moral philosophy on a foundation of individual sovereignty.  I just realize there are some pretty big competing forces at play that make that position difficult to carry forward to perfect liberty.

[MediumTex]

I couldn't find that article I mentioned earlier (which was quite good).

The link below appears to provide a good starting point for someone who wants an overview of citizenship renunciation issues:

http://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/

[MediumTex]

I've been able to have phenomenal discussions with Pointed Stick, involving some very large chasms of disagreement, without much sign he's being offended by what I say and plenty of mutual respect, so I have to think that the more bubbling level of disrespectful tone that's developed between my and Libertarian666 or especially Reub has plenty to do with how they are approaching a discussion, not just myself being "that guy," or an "Internet tough guy." 

Pretend this is you for five minutes:



That should provide you with clarity.

[moda0306]

I've been able to have phenomenal discussions with Pointed Stick, involving some very large chasms of disagreement, without much sign he's being offended by what I say and plenty of mutual respect, so I have to think that the more bubbling level of disrespectful tone that's developed between my and Libertarian666 or especially Reub has plenty to do with how they are approaching a discussion, not just myself being "that guy," or an "Internet tough guy." 

Pretend this is you for five minutes:



That should provide you with clarity.

I like this.

But he doesn't look like he understands Monetary Realism.

Oh shit, am I doing it again?

[doodle]

I've been able to have phenomenal discussions with Pointed Stick, involving some very large chasms of disagreement, without much sign he's being offended by what I say and plenty of mutual respect, so I have to think that the more bubbling level of disrespectful tone that's developed between my and Libertarian666 or especially Reub has plenty to do with how they are approaching a discussion, not just myself being "that guy," or an "Internet tough guy." 

Pretend this is you for five minutes:



That should provide you with clarity.

I like this.

But he doesn't look like he understands Monetary Realism.

Oh shit, am I doing it again?

No, he understands that even monetary realism isnt real.

[Xan]

So it's just... monetary ism?

[Pointedstick]

So it's just... monetary ism?

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