The Permanent Tooth and Gum Care Regime

[MachineGhost]

At first glance this regime (inspired by a book that goes into the nitty gritty scientific details, Kiss Your Dentist Goodbye) doesn't appear to be anything radical, but each step is amazingly interdependent on each other step -- even negative side effects -- just like the PP!  Mess with it at your own peril.

STEP ONE: Use the RediBreeze, QuickBreeze or ShowerBreeze (or a WaterPik, etc. but will be inferior in power) to floss your teeth.

STEP TWO: Use a tongue scraper to scrape the gunk coating off of your tongue.  Don't overdo it or press down too hard; I use about six double swipes until the scraper comes off clean (you want to use running water to rinse it off in-between swipes).

STEP THREE: Use unflavored CloSYS that kills 99% of bacteria in the mouth (even anthrax!) and also highly alkalizes the mouth to protect it from enamal damage and erosion from the tooth brushing in the next step.  CloSYS has a proprietary wetting agent that allows it to slip under the gumline (but allegedly no deeper then 3mm).  Acidic enamal is very prone to damage.  Swish for 1 minute and not one second longer.  SPIT BUT DO NOT RINSE MOUTH OUT WITH WATER.  If you cannot handle using CloSYS twice a day because it negatively affects your sense of taste and/or gives you a funny metallic taste in your mouth, then use warm salt water (1 tsp per cup) in the morning and the CloSYS at night.

STEP FOUR: Use a pea size of a very specific, plain jane, Crest Cavity Protection Fluoride Anticavity Regular Toothpaste that has the unique ability to remineralize the teeth due to the ingredients and contains the only effective as well as natural version of the several forms of flouride commercially available.  The SLS is also bound up so it is not an issue.  This means none of the non-ADA approved marketing fiction gimmicks like tartar control, whitening, baking soda, etc. that just damage the teeth, erode the pellicle layer or inhibit remineralization as glycerine does (very common ingredient in natural toothpastes).  The toothpaste also coats the teeth to protect it from the acidic next step.  Brush for two minutes.  SPIT BUT DO NOT RINSE MOUTH OUT WITH WATER.  I recommed using an Emmident if you have dental implants as it can kill the bugs deep below the gumline.  Otherwise, use the best electronic toothbrush.

STEP FIVE: Use Listerine Original Antiseptic (not the other non-ADA versions) to kill off immature plaque bacteria.  You can use other flavors of Listerine Antispetic than the Original, but they will not whiten the teeth as well.  Listerine is quite acidifying (I confirmed with pH testing), so if this was your last step after brushing as is traditional, you are literally leaving acid on your teeth all night long in low saliva conditions.  Listerine ought to be criminalized, but its all about making a perpetual buck for dentists and manufacturers.  You can use as much cold water as you need to dilute this step so its tolerable and I recommend always doing so because the continual burning from the alcohol (necessary for the active essential oils to work) may degrade your taste buds.  Swish for one minute, then tilt your head back and deep throat gargle for 30 seconds.  SPIT BUT DO NOT RINSE MOUTH OUT WITH WATER.  It is acceptable to use Walmart's Equate Original Flavor Antiseptic Mouthrinse to save money.  I find the white cap a heck of alot easier to measure out the dose than Listerine's black cap.

STEP SIX: Use ACT Anticavity Rinse (not the other non-ADA approved versions) which neutralizes the acid from the previous step and raises the pH of your mouth back to alkaline.  The .05% flouride (18oz bottle) for remineralization is taken up 6x better when the teeth are acid and over time this process will actually harden (lower) the teeth's sensitivity to acid attack.  This step will also increase the flow of saliva to offset the mouth-drying effect of the alcohol in Listerine.  The more acid in the mouth, the better remineralization works, so ACT Anticavity wouldn't work very well being the last step after brushing when the mouth is already alkaline from toothapste.  Swish for one minute and not a second longer.  DO NOT RINSE MOUTH OUT WITH WATER.  The kids flavored versions of ACT Anticavity are okay to use and so is Walmart's Equate Anti-Cavity Mint Flavor Fluoride Rinse, but they are not as clingy as the mint ACT Anticavity.

OPTIONAL STEP SEVEN: Ideally, 30 minutes later and only once a day (I suggest in the morning), repopulate your oral microbiome with beneficial probiotics.  I recommend specific strains that break down plaque and reduce tooth decay, such as FlorAssist Oral Hygiene.

OPTIONAL STEP EIGHT: Another major boost in effectiveness can come from sucking on xlitol mints or chewing gum as an after meal dessert.  The bugs take up xylitol like any sugar, but because xylitol has one less carbon ring, they literally starve to death and out they go next time you do the rinses/brushing.  Xylitol alone reduces tooth decay by 80%-90%.  That's how good it is.

This twice-a-day regime in 7 minutes or so will completely eliminate dragon/morning breath and whiten teeth when followed exactly.  I've found a crucial step is to deep throat gargle with Listerine after doing the teeth.  Seems like odors still emanate from there if not cleansed.  It will also eliminate plaque, gingivitis and periodontal disease if you are diligent and fortunate.  You may not even need to have any scraping done at your next cleaning as some testimonials indicate!  And be sure to always tilt your head back when swishing so you reach the back molars.

[dualstow]

Welcome back, MG. I miss your tech posts.

[WiseOne]

I was wondering where you'd gone to, MG!

Where did you hear about this regime, or did you develop it yourself?  A question...what's the extra benefit provided by the closys pre-brushing?  Brushing alone + Listerine should be enough to deal with oral pathogens, but no amount of mouthwashing is going to convert your mouth into an OR clean room.

[Gumby]

I was wondering where you'd gone to, MG!

Where did you hear about this regime, or did you develop it yourself?  A question...what's the extra benefit provided by the closys pre-brushing?  Brushing alone + Listerine should be enough to deal with oral pathogens, but no amount of mouthwashing is going to convert your mouth into an OR clean room.

It's all explained here — in the Cliff's Notes version:

http://www.drellie.com/pdfs/The-Kissing ... ersion.pdf

The full book can be found here:

http://amzn.com/1929774672

See also:

http://www.drellie.com

[Benko]

1. any idea if Erythritol has same effect on teeth as xylitol?

2. I use listerene in a waterpick: 1 capful of listerene diluted in water in the waterpick waterholder along the gumline and between teeth.  solves the Ph issues.

3.  why not colgate total?

[Gumby]

1. any idea if Erythritol has same effect on teeth as xylitol?

No idea, but according to Wikipedia...

Erythritol has been certified as tooth-friendly. The sugar alcohol cannot be metabolized by oral bacteria, so does not contribute to tooth decay. Interestingly, erythritol exhibits some, but not all, of xylitol's tendency to "starve" harmful bacteria. Unlike xylitol, erythritol is actually absorbed into the bloodstream after consumption but before excretion. However, it is not clear at present if the effect of starving harmful bacteria occurs systemically.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythritol ... d_bacteria

3.  why not colgate total?

Looks like additional questions (on this protocol) can be answered on her blog:

Pastes with baking soda, peroxide and other chemicals seem to include chemicals that cause many sensitivity reactions. Colgate Total has an ingredient called triclosan which reacts with the chlorine in tap water to produce chloroform not good for the skin of your mouth and often a precursor for canker sores. I would advise anyone with a history of canker sores to make sure they do not use a paste with triclosan in it.

Source: http://askdrellie.blogspot.com/2008/03/ ... sores.html

[Gosso]

Perfect timing!  I just started this regime last week, after Gumby mentioned this in another thread a few months back.

Although I am not using the pre-brush rinse since I couldn't find the stuff at the store; instead I apply toothpaste very gently and allow it to sit for 30 seconds, then start brushing.  I'm planning on picking up some xylitol after work...if I can find it.

I still floss everyday since it can only help as long as the proper technique is used.

I haven't been doing this long enough to notice any major changes, but I have noticed that my mouth feels a lot cleaner when I wake up in the morning.

I also found this article on the Colgate website (of all places!) that suggests that we are better off to allow early tooth decay to heal, rather than drill and fill it in.

So early decay doesn't always mean you need a filling. In fact, the decay often can be reversed. A tooth starts to decay because acid in your mouth causes minerals to leach out of the enamel, and the enamel breaks down. Fluoride therapy, dietary changes and better oral hygiene habits can reverse this process by causing minerals to build up in the tooth again, making the enamel stronger.

In some cases, a filling is a no-brainer. If you're in pain or have an obvious cavity (a break in the surface of your tooth), you need a filling. But, says Dr. Albert, "If there's no cavity and no pain, the tooth can fix itself.

"If I saw 100 patients [who had early decay] and decided to wait six months before treating them, it would be the right decision for 95 of them. I think we do more harm by overtreating, because there will always be complications of treatment," he says.

[MediumTex]

I have been using "Concentrace" mineral drops for a while (as I think Gumby is using it as well), and it has occurred to me that an oral rinse with a stronger Concentrace solution than you would want to drink could potentially provide benefits to your teeth by allowing them to absorb minerals in the rinse.

Anyone have any thoughts on this idea?

Also, can anyone help me understand why your teeth feel more sensitive after eating a candy bar?  That's always seemed strange to me.  What is it that sugar does to make your teeth feel more sensitive so quickly?

Another unusual practice that seems to work for me is to take a soft microfiber towel and literally "wipe" your teeth moving from the gum down prior to brushing?  When I do this I feel like the tooth brushing is a lot more effective because a lot of the material on the surface of the teeth has already been removed through the "wiping" step.  This may be a terrible or crazy idea.  Let me know what you think of it, though.

[Gumby]

Minerals are, of course, certainly important, but you definitely need vitamins D, and K2 (as MK-4) in place for remineralization to occur. Taking even a small amount of K2 as MK-4 will do wonders for your enamel.

[MediumTex]

Minerals are, of course, certainly important, but you definitely need vitamins D, and K2 (as MK-4) in place for remineralization to occur. Taking even a small amount of K2 as MK-4 will do wonders for your enamel.

What is K2 and how do you take it?

I suppose that the vitamin D issue arising from living in a northern latitude might help explain the "Austin Powers" problem that many in the UK seem to have with their teeth.

[Benko]

What is K2 and how do you take it?

http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Vitam ... sules/6116
Carlson Labs, Vitamin K2, 5 mg, 60 Capsules
Our Price: $16.19

no commercial interest.

Vit K is a vitamin commonly thought of as being involved mainly in blood clotting but different forms also are important for bones and e.g. have been used to treat osteoporosis (when used in higer doses) in Japan for...ages.

[MediumTex]

Anyone have any thoughts on my pre-brushing teeth wiping idea?

[Gumby]

What is K2 and how do you take it?

http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Vitam ... sules/6116
Carlson Labs, Vitamin K2, 5 mg, 60 Capsules
Our Price: $16.19

no commercial interest.

Vit K is a vitamin commonly thought of as being involved mainly in blood clotting but different forms also are important for bones and e.g. have been used to treat osteoporosis (when used in higer doses) in Japan for...ages.

Personally, I'm a fan of the Thorne MK-4 drops, but they are more expensive. A single drop is a milligram, which is more than daily dose you would ever get naturally from any food — so the bottle lasts for a very long time. The drops are handy as you could mix a single drop into a soup and eat it over the course of three days and you'd pretty much simulate what you would get from a K2-rich diet. However, to truly see results, it helps to avoid large quantities of grains — which rob the body of Vitamin D when improperly prepared. Also, eating a nutrient-dense diet with quality fats to obtain the fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E and K) is crucial.

Weston Price discovered K2 (he called it "Activator X" at the time) and, as a dentist, he realized that you could give High Vitamin Butter Oil (a natural K2 MK-4/MK-7 "superfood") and Fermented Cod Liver Oil (a Vitamin A and D "superfood") to patients to heal their cavities with ease. Modern/improperly prepared grains were found to rob the body of Vitamin D, so the best results were seen when modern grains were minimized (also shown by Sir Edward Mellanby's research with children and dogs). Really fascinating stuff.

Ideally you'd get your MK-4/MK-7 (and the other long-chain menaquinones MK-8, MK-9, etc) from animal food and fermented foods. But, it's difficult to do these days since the Vitamin K1 concentrations in the ground (used by animals to derive K2) have diminished from poor farming techniques over the centuries.

[smurff]

Anyone have any thoughts on my pre-brushing teeth wiping idea?

I do this often with a paper towel, so I was wondering:  Why use a microfiber towel?

There are wipes for everything now, so it's a matter of time before someone comes up with tooth wipes.

[Gumby]

Anyone have any thoughts on my pre-brushing teeth wiping idea?

I do this often with a paper towel, so I was wondering:  Why use a microfiber towel?

There are wipes for everything now, so it's a matter of time before someone comes up with tooth wipes.

There already are tooth wipes for children (available on Amazon.com). I'm sure it doesn't hurt, and it probably helps a bit by removing some gunk from the mouth that could otherwise be scrubbed into the gum line (which is one of the unfortunate flaws of most toothbrushing).

If you've ever wondered how primitive cultures — who didn't eat modern grains — kept their mouths so clean and healthy before toothbrushes were invented, people used "chewing sticks" from very specific trees or bushes:

http://www.afrostylemag.com/chewingstick.html

There was something about the bark and oils in these sticks that removed food and kept bad bacteria in check.

[dualstow]

I've read about Indians chewing neem, and once upon a time I had neem Ayurvedic toothpaste.
Also, I've read articles about Early Man chewing birch in Europe.

Edit: There's a product at Amazon that says, "Made from Licorice Root (Neem Tree)"  Definitely not the same thing.
ASIN: B001HHFLM2

[Gumby]

It's interesting because there are these instinctual rituals that kept mouths clean for millions of years in every animal. My dog has been eating a raw food carnivorous diet for a few years now (she was eating "ancestrally" way before I was) and her teeth look amazing even though I never ever brush them. Part of the trick is that she chews on a raw bone every couple of days and her teeth get so white afterwards. Most of the dogs in the neighborhood have terrible, rotting, teeth (very bad for their health) and I can only suspect they are eating grain-based diets from a bag. So, there is definitely a systemic/internal aspect about dental care where proper hygiene and nutient-dense diet allows remineraliation to occur via one's vitamin/mineral-rich saliva combined with chewing on things that help clean off the teeth.

NOTE: Never give your dog a cooked bone as it can splinter and puncture their intestines. Dogs should only eat raw bones.

[Gumby]

I've read about Indians chewing neem, and once upon a time I had neem Ayurvedic toothpaste.
Also, I've read articles about Early Man chewing birch in Europe.

Edit: There's a product at Amazon that says, "Made from Licorice Root (Neem Tree)"  Definitely not the same thing.
ASIN: B001HHFLM2

Looks like "Miswak" sticks have a cult following. Wikipedia claims:

Studies
A 2003 scientific study comparing the use of miswak with ordinary toothbrushes concluded that the results clearly were in favor of the users who had been using the miswak, provided they had been given proper instruction in how to brush using it. The World Health Organization (WHO) recommended the use of the miswak in 1986 and in 2000 an international consensus report on oral hygiene concluded that further research was needed to document the effect of the miswak.
Dr. Rami Mohammed Diabi, who spent more than 17 years researching the effects of miswak on health, and especially its anti-addiction effects on smokers (curative and preventive sides), has opened a field of science and research with his last publication: "Miswak Medicine Theory" or Sewak Puncture medicine which led him to what is called Beyond Sewak: World of Science and Research. Miswak also is contributing in the fight against desertification, thereby affecting our environment and global climate.

Miswak extract vs. oral disinfectants.
Studies indicate that Salvadora persica extract is somewhat comparable to other oral disinfectants and anti-plaque agents like Triclosan and Chlorhexidine Gluconate if used at a very high concentration

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miswak

[williswine]

Peelu USA (no affiliation) sells dental fibers made from the same tree as that chewing stick. I have been using http://peelu.com/dental-fibers/spearmint-25-oz/ for years now and my dental hygienist is always amazed at how little plaque I have. I don't really like the taste of it but it leaves my mouth and teeth so clean and it does not leave a toothpaste after taste that sometimes affects my sleep. Added bonus is that it is not a liquid so travels really easy. Oh, and it lasts a long long time (just like my crystal deodorant stick).

I'm however wondering if the system mentioned in the first post wouldn't do an even better job even though it certainly costs a lot more and has many more chemicals involved.  Wonder what Dr Ellie would say, maybe don't change a thing!

[Gumby]

Peelu USA (no affiliation) sells dental fibers made from the same tree as that chewing stick

Nice. That's really interesting. Though, the chewing stick itself seems to have some functional advantage over the Peelu.

Continued chewing loosens and dislodges particles between the teeth, which in turn stimulates blood circulation in the gums. Another benefit of the chew stick is that it increases saliva production, which in turn acts as a natural mouthwash that rinses away bacteria and creates an inhospitable environment for them to thrive and flourish.

Source: http://www.afrostylemag.com/chewingstick.html

However, I'm intrigued by the Peelu, as the properties of the fibers seem to be pretty powerful and they are very cheap.

Miswak sticks are also pretty cheap too..

http://amzn.com/B001G47L24

I'm however wondering if the system mentioned in the first post wouldn't do an even better job even though it certainly costs a lot more and has many more chemicals involved.  Wonder what Dr Ellie would say, maybe don't change a thing!

In my experience, any doctor who bets their career on a specific approach never endorses and alternative approach. If you think about it, Dr. Ellie's approach — while very successful — is a man-made hack to achieve what the little chewing stick does. (And she's in the business of selling books and "Zellie Water"). My guess is that both approaches are very good. The only difference is that the chewing stick has a few million more years of successful use

[williswine]

The chewing stick might replace the indeed very cost efficient toothbrush + Peelu combination. I don't know how long it would last compared to the latter. One thing I like with Peelu and my soft toothbrush is that I can add flavoring, mint oils or even toothpaste to change the taste at will. And it is convenient and somewhat conventional, taking perhaps less space than several sticks in my travel bag. I need to research the sticks. Any good source?

I am intrigued by the Ellie system as it claims to reverse decay, bring back recssed gum, give very fresh breath, aso. I think my breath is fine but it is definitely not Listerine fresh. Also, I have had a decay while using Peelu  but I would attribute that to forgetting to brush (and floss) after eating sweets before bed time   for a long time ( several years in fact) I went with just Peelu and no decay at all...

EDIT: I just saw the amazon source for the chewing sticks.

[Gumby]

One thing I like with Peelu and my soft toothbrush is that I can add flavoring, mint oils or even toothpaste to change the taste at will. And it is convenient and somewhat conventional, taking perhaps less space than several sticks in my travel bag.

Some say each stick lasts a few weeks. Other (compulsive chewers) say each stick lasts about a week or so. I guess it depends on how much chewing you do. The interesting thing is that the miswak chewing sticks really look like toothbrushes

[align=center][/align]

I am a fan of the powders at the moment and I'm slowly trying them out one by one. Dr. Christopher's Tooth Powder also has a cult following, as do many others (Dr. Schulze's Tooth Formula for instance, a liquid though). A lot of these products use White Oak Bark, or Tea Tree Oil which also has chewing stick properties. However, I tend to avoid tea tree oil because there is some evidence that it can block testosterone and promote estrogen (not definitively proven though).

I am intrigued by the Ellie system as it claims to reverse decay, bring back recssed gum, give very fresh breath

Most of these alternative approaches seem to reverse decay. But, I think Dr. Ellie's is one of the few to do it with conventional ingredients chemicals.

[Gumby]

I need to research the sticks.

Here's a great scientific review of miswak: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3545237/

Interestingly, the periodontist who wrote the review mentions that while the evidence for miswak is generally very positive, gum recession can occur with miswak — believed to likely be from overuse (sometimes used 5 times per day, after prayer, in Islam) or improper use.

[dualstow]

Peelu USA (no affiliation) sells dental fibers made from the same tree as that chewing stick.

Neat! I have bought Peelu's xylitol gum before. It wasn't cheap, but it was good quality.

[MediumTex]

Anyone have any thoughts on my pre-brushing teeth wiping idea?

I do this often with a paper towel, so I was wondering:  Why use a microfiber towel?

There are wipes for everything now, so it's a matter of time before someone comes up with tooth wipes.

A microfiber towel just gives you many more contact points on the surface being wiped.