New Study Says If You Eat Red Meat You Will Die

[Benko]

MG,

Obviously the best flora supplement would be important if one has a screwed up gut. 

I've used metagenics brand dairy free flora (acidophilus NCFM + bifidobacterium lactis) for over a decade personally, but I've had clients e.g. a woman with multiple sclerosis who had bad gut issues and I used a much higher potency flora supps.  There are also flora supplements which contain "dirt flora" which many people swear by. 

[RuralEngineer]

Just since the advent of animal domestication (less than 10,000 years), human populations have evolved in a divergent fashion such that some of us can process lactose as adults and some can't.  And yet I'm supposed to go back 3+ million years and replicate the diet of those ancestors?

[Benko]

From Forbes http://www.forbes.com/sites/harlankrumh ... s-to-know/

A prominent study* of the medical literature by investigators at Harvard concluded that the consumption of red meat was not associated with a higher risk of heart disease.  They based their conclusions on 20 studies that included more than a million individuals.

*http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/121 ... l.pdf+html

[moda0306]

Harvard is to diet as MIT is to inflation.

Hogwash!!

[MachineGhost]

I've used metagenics brand dairy free flora (acidophilus NCFM + bifidobacterium lactis) for over a decade personally, but I've had clients e.g. a woman with multiple sclerosis who had bad gut issues and I used a much higher potency flora supps.  There are also flora supplements which contain "dirt flora" which many people swear by.

I've tried all kinds of probiotics, both soil-based as well as the traditional, high-potency and run-of-the-mill, and I've never seen anything happening from them.  What did the woman use?

And what is the advantage of Metagenics dairy-free over all the others?

[AgAuMoney]

As for me, I just finished a delicious burger.  It was beef, but cooked to the edge of well done (not a touch of red) because I did not know the cow it came from.

With a generous slice of sharp cheddar.  Last week it was a generous tablespoon of crumbled blue cheese and bacon.

Mmm.

[Pointedstick]

As for me, I just finished a delicious burger.  It was beef, but cooked to the edge of well done (not a touch of red) because I did not know the cow it came from.

With a generous slice of sharp cheddar.  Last week it was a generous tablespoon of crumbled blue cheese and bacon.

Mmm.

Oh man, those are the best. There's a restaurant I used to go to a lot that had a blue-cheese-and-bacon called the Gunsmoke Burger and it was the best damn burger I've ever eaten. Now I want one again.

[rocketdog]

As for me, I just finished a delicious burger.  It was beef, but cooked to the edge of well done (not a touch of red) because I did not know the cow it came from.

With a generous slice of sharp cheddar.  Last week it was a generous tablespoon of crumbled blue cheese and bacon.

Mmm.

I always enjoy melted crumbled blue cheese on my burgers.  Only difference is that mine are of the Boca or Garden brand variety.  

We also grill marinated portabello mushroom caps and melt some blue cheese on them at the end as well.  Carve off a thin slice and dab it into some A1 steak sauce and you'd swear you're eating the most tender piece of beef you've ever had.  Last summer I grilled one for a neighbor of mine who's a good ol' boy from Nebraska, and he was blown away. 

The key is it takes practice to get really good at marinating and cooking portabello caps (it took me a whole summer to perfect my technique).  So let me know if you need me to write up a recipe and some grilling instructions.

[rocketdog]

There is a lot of evidence that omega 3 fats are great for us...

Absolutely!  No argument there.

... and that animal fats are the best way for us to absorb micronutrients.

HA!!!  You're so silly. 

[Pointedstick]

The key is it takes practice to get really good at marinating and cooking portabello caps (it took me a whole summer to perfect my technique).  So let me know if you need me to write up a recipe and some grilling instructions.

Between this and Melveyr's cooling adventures, maybe we need a new thread called "The Permanent Cookbook".

[RuralEngineer]

We also grill marinated portabello mushroom caps and melt some blue cheese on them at the end as well.  Carve off a thin slice and dab it into some A1 steak sauce and you'd swear you're eating the most tender piece of beef you've ever had.  Last summer I grilled one for a neighbor of mine who's a good ol' boy from Nebraska, and he was blown away. 

The key is it takes practice to get really good at marinating and cooking portabello caps (it took me a whole summer to perfect my technique).  So let me know if you need me to write up a recipe and some grilling instructions.

Are you marinating the mushrooms in LSD to achieve the "realistic beef flavor?"

I've had vegetarian food in upscale restaurants that everyone swears tastes "just like meat!" All delusional so far.

[rocketdog]

The key is it takes practice to get really good at marinating and cooking portabello caps (it took me a whole summer to perfect my technique).  So let me know if you need me to write up a recipe and some grilling instructions.

Between this and Melveyr's cooling adventures, maybe we need a new thread called "The Permanent Cookbook".

Let's do it!

[rocketdog]

Ramen-style noodles, a staple in the pantry of broke college students, has been the mainstay of one teenager's diet for the past 13 years, according to an article in the New York Daily News.

Georgi Readman, 18, of the Isle of Wight, U.K., refuses to eat fruit and vegetables and exists solely on packaged noodle soup, a snack that often contains high amounts of fat, saturated fat, and sodium. One package typically boasts 400 calories and 20 grams of fat.

http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/t ... 13286.html

Best quote:

"Readman could not be reached for comment but according to her doctors, she is malnourished and has the health of an 80 year old. "

Reminds me of a contestant I saw once on "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?"  He was a young guy in his 20s, and Regis Philbin asked him to talk about his odd diet.  "I eat nothing but bread and cheese," he exclaimed.  Regis asked him why and he answered, "I don't really like anything else." 

He didn't look terribly healthy to me, but I guess time will settle that score as it does all others. 

I'm too chicken to watch the TED video at the end.

It wasn't that bad -- not terribly scientific, but interesting still the same.  And it wasn't up to the same standards of the other TED talks l've seen.  Not by a longshot. 

[MachineGhost]

The key is it takes practice to get really good at marinating and cooking portabello caps (it took me a whole summer to perfect my technique).  So let me know if you need me to write up a recipe and some grilling instructions.

Post it in the Recipes thread.

[AgAuMoney]

Are you marinating the mushrooms in LSD to achieve the "realistic beef flavor?"

I've had vegetarian food in upscale restaurants that everyone swears tastes "just like meat!" All delusional so far.

LOL, so true. 

Last summer I had a "mushroom" burger, not by choice.  My host did not inform me in advance, but had asked if I wanted one or two "hamburgers and these are on the small side."  I requested two.  They smelled good, but I could hardly finish the first.  I wasn't sure what it was, but it obviously was not beef.  I was wondering if it was 80% pink slime and 20% fat because it didn't even have the right texture.

She noticed I wasn't eating my burger very fast and asked if there was anything wrong.  I didn't want to say anything, so I just replied something about not being as hungry as I expected.  Then she told me it wasn't beef, and thought I wouldn't notice.

Tofu and squash in lasagne?  Tofu on pizza or in a curry?  Not good.

[rocketdog]

Last summer I had a "mushroom" burger, not by choice.  My host did not inform me in advance, but had asked if I wanted one or two "hamburgers and these are on the small side."  I requested two.  They smelled good, but I could hardly finish the first.  I wasn't sure what it was, but it obviously was not beef.  I was wondering if it was 80% pink slime and 20% fat because it didn't even have the right texture.

She noticed I wasn't eating my burger very fast and asked if there was anything wrong.  I didn't want to say anything, so I just replied something about not being as hungry as I expected.  Then she told me it wasn't beef, and thought I wouldn't notice.

Tofu and squash in lasagne?  Tofu on pizza or in a curry?  Not good.

Not all veggie burgers are created equal.  If you're looking for one that closely mimics a beef burger, you're going to be looking a long time.  That said, the best veggies burgers taste far better than the worst fast-food burgers.  Probably the most "beef-like" I've had are the Boca and Morningstar grillers.  If you cook them on the grill with a slice of melted cheddar on top, they're a pretty good approximation of a hamburger (but not identical). 

You just have to be careful they don't stick to the grill because they lack the fat contained in beef.  Brush some olive oil on them before cooking and you should be good.  And don't be afraid to get a little char on them -- it only helps to give them that charbroiled flavor. 

Tofu can be good in lasagna and some curries, but not on pizza (I've never even heard of that!) 

[rocketdog]

The key is it takes practice to get really good at marinating and cooking portabello caps (it took me a whole summer to perfect my technique).  So let me know if you need me to write up a recipe and some grilling instructions.

Post it in the Recipes thread.

Am I blind?  I can't find the Recipes thread. 

[smurff]

I have just now set it up, rocketdog.

[rocketdog]

Thanks smurff!

[MediumTex]

It looks like a PP cookbook might be in the works.

[Gumby]

Just because something has been done for a long time doesn't make it a good idea.  Most of our early ancestors didn't live past their 20s, so they didn't have to face the long-term consequences of a diet heavy in animal products.  We shouldn't be asking ourselves "How did our ancient ancestors eat?" Instead we should be asking ourselves "What should I eat in order to live the longest, healthiest life possible?"  And all of the evidence points to a largely vegetarian diet, with animal products used in limited amounts, if at all. 

Oh, wow!  So much falsehoods in that statement, but my adrenals can't spare the stress to correct the falsehoods.  We're all sorely missing Gumby...

EDIT: Gumby is taking a break from the forum to destress his adrenals.

Hey guys... Yes, as MG said, as much as I love the forum, I'm taking a break for awhile.

As far as meat goes, it is still very much safe to eat — provided you're not consuming more than 1 Lb per day and you're not eating lots of sugar and flour that tend to feed bad bacteria. Keep in mind that homo sapiens have been eating meat for over 2 million years. Likely, we did not evolve over so long to become easily overridden with TMAO. More likely other factors are contributing to increased TMAO in the gut (flour, grains and sugar perhaps) which were obviously not part of our +2 million years dietary evolution. Do not get your health advice from major media outlets, as you will likely be mislead by attention-grabbing headlines and clueless editors who buy into those headlines.

If I had to guess, I'd be willing to bet that wild carnivorous animals likely do not automatically get lots of TMAO produced when they eat their meat (again, likely because they don't eat lots of grains/flour/sugar).

Anyway, for those who are worried about TMAO, the following analyses are worth reading:

Chris Kresser: Red Meat and TMAO: Cause for Concern, or Another Red Herring?

Human Food Project: From Meat to Microbes to Main street: is it time to trade in your George Foreman Grill?

Paul Jaminet: Lessons From The Latest Red Meat Scare

Chris Masterjohn: Does Carnitine From Red Meat Contribute to Heart Disease Through Intestinal Bacterial Metabolism to TMAO?

Mark Sisson: Does Red Meat Clog Your Arteries After All?

Is Red Meat A Fish Story? Why You Should Never Believe Health Headlines

TMAO isn't really something you need to worry about if you eat a healthy diet. I've often said that vegetables are not very nutrient dense (and I still believe that). But, it seems that vegetables are crucial for cleansing the body, providing antioxidants, phytochemicals, and filling the gut with fermentable fiber that good bacteria can feed on. Keep you're good bacteria well-fed and they will treat you right.

So, eat plenty of vegetables (5 to 10 servings) and consume between 0.5 Lb of meat and 1 Lb of high quality meat per day and you should be fine. Throw in some healthy starches (tubers, rice) and you're golden.

I'd love to keep discussing, but again, I really need a break from these sorts of discussions!

EDIT: Last thing I'll point out...

If you read the media reports and full-text of this study, you might have noticed something interesting. The study itself, and even most of the media article about it, quite simply and without much fanfare stated that saturated fat and cholesterol have little to do with the supposed increase in heart disease observed with red meat consumption. Hold the press! Shouldn’t THAT be front-page news?!? Apparently not. Of course, they’re only willing to admit this publicly in the context of an article where they’re proposing yet another mechanism for how red meat will kill you.
Source: http://chriskresser.com/red-meat-and-tm ... t-the-meat

If anyone still believes the media when it comes to health recommendations, think about this... Did anyone notice that the researchers and the media are now suggesting that the saturated fat is the healthiest part of your steak? That's what I've been saying all along!

And to think for all these decades they've been telling us to trim fat for absolutely no reason at all, and with no admission of their decades and decades of flawed recommendations. What a crock.

[moda0306]

One good MR debate and we'll have him hooked and back making mile-long posts again!

[Pointedstick]

One good MR debate and we'll have him hooked and back making mile-long posts again!

OMG guys I think the government is going to run out of money. How can they spend more than they have?!The only thing to do is immediately run a huge surplus, abolish the Fed, and re-establish the gold standard.

[Xan]

OMG guys I think the government is going to run out of money. How can they spend more than they have?!The only thing to do is immediately run a huge surplus, abolish the Fed, and re-establish the gold standard.

PS, I think you're technically trolling, but if it brings Gumby back then I like it!  :-)

[Kriegsspiel]

In an attempt to give credit, pasted from another forum:
http://monkeyisland.lylemcdonald.com/sh ... ost1037447

"The China Study" is a joke. Among the many errors:

- The author fails to note that plant and wheat proteins are correlated to CVD far more strongly than animal protein is.

- The author cites dozens of poorly-designed animal studies that are not remotely applicable to humans.

- Several of the studies cited don't compare two diets. Rather, they compare a typical diet to a low-fat/low-protein diet combined with statins.

Much more here: http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/

-C10

Oh shit, Benko are you a fellow Islander?