Teach me about trucks and RVs

[Pointedstick]

I'm looking into buying a 5th wheel RV and understand that I'll need a fairly powerful pickup truck to tow it. Problem is, I don't know a lot about trucks. Has anyone here towed a 5th wheel and be willing to share their experience? Here are a couple of questions I have:

- Obviously power and fuel economy are inversely correlated; how much towing power do you really need?
- Are there any trucks out there that were built for power, not comfort or flashiness? (I'm sure, but you wouldn't know it by the trucks in my neighborhood  )
- What's the learning curve on learning to drive the whole shebang?
- How much does towing the 5th wheel hurt your fuel economy?
- If you could do it again from scratch, what would you do differently?
- etc.

[Lonestar]

You have asked for a great deal of info to be addressed in one post, but I'll give you the basics.  Towing power needed is based on the size/weight of the trailer being pulled.  With a 5th wheel not only "pulling the weight of the trailer" is of concern, but also the weight of the front of the trailer (pin weight) on the bed of the truck.  You can pull up data on truck manufacturers web sites that will give this info.  Pay particular attention to the truck's maximum Combined Weight Rating (GCVWR), a combination of what the truck weighs and the additional amount of weight the trailer adds to it.

Most 5th wheels 28' and up are pulled with diesels. 3/4 and 1 ton.  Diesel engines provide power and better fuel economy than gasoline.  Anything over 36' is usually pulled by a truck with dual rear wheels.  Many trailer manufacturers are now selling smaller and lighter trailers they claim can be pulled with 1/2 ton trucks.  Success here all depends on what type terrain they will be pulled in.

A 5th wheel on average will cut your MPG in half assuming flat land and no wind.  It varies from there.

I can't give advice on the learning curve.  Some folks just learn to pull easier than others depending on their skills.  I've pulled trailers most of my adult life, and I will assure you it's easier to learn on a shorter pull behind trailer vs. a long 5th wheel.  Also, there are inherent benefits to both styles.

For a wealth of information and controversy go over to www.rv.net/forums, go to the 5th wheel section and you will find more opinions than you ever wanted.

[RuralEngineer]

I've not hauled an RV (never owned one), but I've hauled 10,000+ lbs of cattle with my father in a trailer.  We've always used a 3/4 ton pickup for that (That would be a Chevy 2500 or a Ford F-250).  We've always used trucks with gasoline engines because a diesel engine on a new truck is something like $7,000 extra and they don't depreciate as fast as gasoline trucks do, because they're more durable, which means that older diesel trucks are relatively more expensive.  A diesel engine will lug better, likely get a bit better mpg, and lasts longer.  But again, pricey.

With respect to mileage, a less powerful truck, like a 1/2 ton will get better mileage unloaded.  However, it will suffer more when you're hauling/towing.  For example, my 1/2 Silverado 1500 gets 20 mpg highway unloaded and about 16 mpg with a full bed of oak firewood.  My dad's Silverado 2500 with a full size bed (I have an extended cab, so shorter bed) doesn't even notice a full load of wood but only gets 13 mpg highway regardless.

So, my recommendation is a 3/4 ton pickup in whatever flavor you want.  I'd stay away from Dodge as the Ram has a history of transmission issues (my opinion).  If you go Ford I'd recommend against the Eco-boost.  The Eco-boost has the HP of a V8 but makes it with a twin turbo V6.  This is great for the added mpg while under warranty but lord help you if you blow a turbo after your 3 year power-train warranty expires.  Turbo's aren't one of those components that are really designed to be super rugged either.  The Eco-Boost is only a couple of extra mpg anyway, unless you're going to be a long haul trucker in this thing, the savings isn't going to cover the increased maintenance costs.

If I had to make an extremely specific recommendation, I'd get a Silverado 2500 HD.  Ford makes good looking trucks, but I like the warranty on Chevy better.  Ford also had a long running issue on some of there engines with aluminum heads where they left a particular spark plug retained by one or two threads.  People had them blowing out and laying on top of the engine while they were driving down the road for years.  If you care about luxury features, the GMC Sierra is the exact same truck as the Silverado with different decals.

[Pointedstick]

Thanks for the brain dumps, guys! Off to RV.net...

[Pointedstick]

PS, is the 5th wheel for living in?

Yes. 

Regarding diesel versus gas, I'd only go with diesel if you were planning to pull a lot of miles per year.  The GM (Isuzu) Duramax is a good engine.

That's what my research is concluding, too. People seem to be also claiming that diesels get slightly better mileage when not towing; is that true? This'll be our only vehicle so I don't want it to be too much of a gas guzzler for the inevitable trips around town.

[RuralEngineer]

Diesel engines are capable of better fuel economy than gasoline engines, yes.  That's why all the super economy cars that aren't hybrids are turbo-diesels with small displacement engines.  I've seen people reporting 30 mpg in a truck unloaded with a diesel engine.  Granted, those individuals are hyper-milers who drive a particular way to achieve those kinds of results.

From trucktrend.com:

Fuel Economy
Advantage: Diesel
Diesel fuel has a higher energy density than gasoline. One gallon of diesel contains approximately 147,000 BTUs of energy, while a gallon of gasoline only has 125,000 BTUs. This means it takes more gasoline to equal the power output of diesel, making diesel engines more efficient per gallon of fuel burned. Also, because diesel engines use the more efficient direct fuel-injection method (fuel injected directly into cylinder) compared to the port fuel-injection setup in gas engines where gas is mixed with incoming air in the intake manifold, the diesel system has little wasted or unburned fuel. Diesels also use about one third as much fuel at idle as gasoline units. Even though there are no official EPA-mileage figures for 3?4-ton and bigger trucks, we've seen diesels get six to eight more mpg than similar-weight gas pickups. Over the life of the truck, this advantage could be significant, especially if you drive a lot of miles.

Read more: http://www.trucktrend.com/features/tech ... z2PBHSz7ud

[MediumTex]

There is a lot to learn about the topic you have raised.

I have owned a few RVs and trucks in my life, and the many facets of RV living and camping take a long time to fully digest.

Here are a few basics to get you started.

First, for a first RV always buy used.  Look for something that is 3-7 years old and lightly used.  A fifth wheel has many advantages over a bumper pull trailer.  The overall length of the rig is shorter, the turning radius is tighter, the weight distribution in the rear is much better, and it's just a more enjoyable experience to drive a setup like that (IMHO).

Second, your tow vehicle should have power to spare.  Don't be tempted to match up capacities with no margin of safety.  I would suggest you use a tow vehicle rated to handle 50% more than what you plan to pull.  This approach will provide you with a setup that you can enjoy driving.  As a practical matter, if you plan on pulling more than a light load regularly, a diesel pickup is the way to go.  I drove a 2001 Dodge 3/4 ton diesel stick shift for about 4 years and really enjoyed it a lot (though it was quite noisy).

Third, make sure that the other members of your family are also into it.  My wife thinks camping and RVs are stupid, and this attitude on her part effectively ended my RV career.  It's cool, though, she's just not into it and I can't make her be something she isn't.

Fourth, look past your first few outings to the longer term nature of your truck and RV investment.  Many people get into RVs only to go camping a few times and then their rigs spend most of the time in storage.  Since you are talking about an investment of tens of thousands of dollars, read and think about it a lot before spending any money.

Finally, an RV demands that you become familiar with and able to troubleshoot many different systems in the RV.  It's fun, but it can also be a lot of work.  Essentially, you are taking on a new residence to maintain, often with systems that are not as well designed as the systems you may be used to at home.  Also, being on wheels creates a whole new set of potential trouble spots in the electrical, plumbing, climate control and other systems.

You will meet a lot of nice and interesting people in an RV and you will be able to see parts of the country that many people never get to see.  It's really an amazing experience, but you have to be ready for it and it has to be something that you (and your family) really wants to do.

[notsheigetz]

My first wife and I bought a 25-foot travel trailer a few years before she died of cancer. Like MT's wife the idea of living in it full-time didn't sit well  with her but she liked going on weekend outings. When she died I hopped in it and took off and eventually sold my house and did it full time for a couple of years. I think I would still be living in one today if it wasn't for the fact I was also left with a granddaughter to raise (she was 3 when my wife died). I know some people with kids do live the RV lifestyle but most of them home-school. I think it would be very difficult to manage if you didn't.

I agree with MT's advice of starting out with something used in case you decide it's not for you. You can always upgrade later. Mine sat idle for several years costing me money for storage and insurance before I decided to get rid of it.

I also agree with MT's advice about preferring the 5th-wheel to a travel trailer, although it sounds like you are already inclined that way. I never had any experience with a 5th-wheel but I can tell you that pulling that 25 foot travel trailer with a 20 foot long Dodge Ram 2500 van amounted to quite a huge rig. I found myself parking beside semi-trucks that weren't as long. I heard maneuvering a 5th wheel was a lot easier.

If I was single and was going to do it today I think I would buy the kind of RV that mounts onto the bed of a pickup truck. I saw one not long ago that had a slide-out, a larger holding tank than I had in my trailer (I think it was 80 gallons), and a generator. Throw in some solar panels on the roof and a good battery bank and you could live completely off the grid for a very long time. Wouldn't be suitable for kids, of course, and probably not even a married couple but for a single guy, what more could you ask?

[Pointedstick]

Thank you MT and notsheigetz. Great info there.

Not only is my wife into it, but she actually suggested it. Living full-time in an RV has been a childhood dream of hers, as it turns out. So that's sorted out, thankfully! We're pretty handy and mechanical so I'm hoping we'll be able to take care of most of the inevitable problems that arise. We were planning to get a used fifth wheel, probably something in the 30 or so foot range under a decade old. A lot of the 2004-2008 stuff is really nice inside, especially with the enormous slides. Some of the newer ones are like real houses. It's just incredible! Of course those are like 80 grand.

I totally agree with you, notsheigetz, about the pickup camper thing. Were I single, I'd do the same. What an incredibly free lifestyle you'd have. You could just go anywhere.

Question about diesel pickups: I've heard they smell. Is it unbearable? Anyone have a used one they're looking to get rid of? 

[MediumTex]

Not only is my wife into it, but she actually suggested it. Living full-time in an RV has been a childhood dream of hers, as it turns out.

Wow.

That's pretty exciting.

With a partner like that, you could have all sorts of low cost adventures all over the U.S.