Media Driven Society

[FarmerD]

I think the Media basically tells most people what to think and like sheep, most people sponge up what they're told rather than think.  We're basically becoming a society of unthinking fools preoccupied with trivia. 

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... the-matrix

Often these days, I find it hard to interact on a personal level with anyone outside of a small group of my close friends.  When most people aren't screwing around in their self absorbed TV, smart phone, twitter, or iPad cocoon world, they seem to only want to talk about Beyonce, American Idol, the latest football game, or some soap opera, etc.  It's become almost impossible for me to even bring up topics like the economy, history, health and diet, science, investing, politics, cultural events, local events, gardening, novels, or the arts without getting anything but blank looks.  I get the impression that nobody reads anymore.  Therefore I have to dumb down my talk to the point of shallowness to even get in the conversation with these types. 

It wasn't always this way.  As a kid we rarely watched TV.  Instead we interacted with people.  I remember my parents constantly hosting small parties with friends to eat, play cards and talk.  My dad always went to the local coffee shop when he had time to converse with friends.  The level of conversation was William Buckley-like compared to the stuff people talk about today. 

Has society changed that much over the years?

[doodle]

It goes deeper than that. All of our perceptions of the world around us and of "reality" are the product of our five senses and the limitations of our collective mindset. It is all a giant game full of mass delusion where we write the very rules and then obey them as if things couldnt be any other way. As Shakespeare put it in Macbeth! It is all "sound and fury, signifying nothing". Everyone has a role (or roles) to play in this giant drama. The key to life is to be comfortable with the role you are playing and then to play it well! Of course, that role is also ever changing....today i might be crotchety grouch man....tomorrow carefree moon child

I used to try to conform more in my 20s, now i just want to be myself and say whatever I want and let others interpret it or think what they will. I also rail against this notion that i have to be consistent in my beliefs or personality. My opinions, beliefs, desires change on an hourly basis and that is nothing to be ashamed of. Hell, the other day i was even thinking of going out and getting a gun....hows that for a flip flop? And so what?

FarmerD, have you ever read any Ralph Waldo Emerson? I think you might enjoy what he has to say about conformity :-)

To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.  - RWE

[doodle]

Here is another one:

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”?

Ralph Waldo Emerson

EDIT: of course, to be "misunderstood" is to imply that you understand anything at all in the first place.

Maybe these people of which you speak are just waiting for someone to come along and interject something out of the ordinary into their lives. As long as you remain non judgemental the worst that can happen is that they label you an eccentric outsider (which you seem to have self identified as already). Take a lesson from Eric Hoffer the longshoreman philosopher who worked menial labor all his life yet despite being a fantastically deep thinker, was able to engage and discuss with his fellow working men on all variety of topics.

[Pointedstick]

Maybe you just need to find a community that suits you better.

I encountered a lot of what you're saying growing up, but living in a college town, was always able to find interesting conversation with random people. When I went off to college in another state, I found the continuation of that, but I began to realize that the interesting conversations were nearly all the same. I could talk with my college friends in a very deep and rational way about literature, food sustainability, and social justice, but bring up guns, economics, or finances and they became hostile, defensive, and irrational.

On those subjects, they were just as much victims of the media telling them what to believe. In my experience, most people are ignorant and conformist on certain subjects, but fascinating and intellectual on others. It's a rare person who displays humility, intelligence, curiosity with all subjects, because it's intellectually exhausting to be deconstructing about everything all the time.

That's why I hang out here so much. The concentration of people who fit that description is astonishing.

Back to the real world, my recommendation would be to find people whose knowledges and ignorances line up better with things you do and don't care about. Otherwise, you're going to be stuck looking around for the true renaissance men, which is probably going to be a lot harder.

[doodle]

Cant we just view relationships with others like we look at food? Sometimes im in the mood for hamburger and beer, at other times i want caviar and foie gras. Ultimately, i think the true battle of conformity lies within. Conforming is about first being comfortable with yourself. Once you achieve that, your surroundings and the feedback they give you have less importance.

I think overly intellectual people can be just as nauseating as the type of sheeple FarmerD describes. On the whole, i think anytime we start looking outside ourselves for self validation we might be setting ourselves up for disappointment

[MediumTex]

I think that many people today are overstimulated to a much greater degree than they were in the past.

IMHO, overstimulation makes calm reflection a much harder thing to do.  Overstimulation also seems to make it harder to remember things in detail that happened more than a few months before, and thus it has a tendency to destroy one's ability to even conceive of history as a valuable tool to help make sense of the present.

[FarmerD]

It goes deeper than that. All of our perceptions of the world around us and of "reality" are the product of our five senses and the limitations of our collective mindset. It is all a giant game full of mass delusion where we write the very rules and then obey them as if things couldnt be any other way. As Shakespeare put it in Macbeth! It is all "sound and fury, signifying nothing". Everyone has a role (or roles) to play in this giant drama. The key to life is to be comfortable with the role you are playing and then to play it well! Of course, that role is also ever changing....today i might be crotchety grouch man....tomorrow carefree moon child

I used to try to conform more in my 20s, now i just want to be myself and say whatever I want and let others interpret it or think what they will. I also rail against this notion that i have to be consistent in my beliefs or personality. My opinions, beliefs, desires change on an hourly basis and that is nothing to be ashamed of. Hell, the other day i was even thinking of going out and getting a gun....hows that for a flip flop? And so what?

FarmerD, have you ever read any Ralph Waldo Emerson? I think you might enjoy what he has to say about conformity :-)

To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.  - RWE

I don't think have any problem speaking my mind to anyone but I've been put in so many positions in the past 4-5 years where I don't want to embarrass my family so I try to act polite and talk to people I wouldn't otherwise talk to in the first place.  For example, when some of our neighbors stop by our house or when my wife has some of here friends/family over to our house, or my wife drags me to some church function, I don't want to look like a standoff-ish jerk, so I try to mingle with others there.  Everyone just seems to get their news from commercials, Saturday Night live or Jon Stewart.  When I offer a differing (knowledgeable) opinion or very politely correct some factual error they say, I start getting blank stares or quick changes of topics. 

No one likes an argumentative person or a smart alec know-it-all so after a while I just nod my head in agreement when I hear things like

"My doctor said I need to eat plenty of whole grains because I'm diabetic so I do"
"I trust my heart to Lipitor"
"Everyone knows Cheerios lower cholesterol"
"Well Dr Oz says XXXX is good for you."

Of course when people start comparing the relative merits of J - Z to Beyonce, what type of fishing lure to use, or who will win the latest reality show contest, I have nothing to add to that conversation. 

[Pointedstick]

Let yourself be that standoffish know-it-all. In the beginning, you may push others away, but that's just who you are, and it's not like you're pulling them any closer by pretending to care about vapidity, or avoiding those subjects entirely. After a period of time, some of them will start to realize that you're the knowledgeable one in the community and will actually solicit your advice.

Most ignorant people realize they're ignorant, but they're too afraid to seek out knowledge. Knowing you will make it easier because there's already some type of social tie in place, and they know you're not going to judge them harshly  for asking your advice.

[FarmerD]

I just remembered I had a conversation about this very subject with a friend a few weeks ago.  He sent me a video clip from "God Bless America" I thought was pretty good. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A-Km9zvFao

[doodle]

I pretty much agree with pointedstick on that one. I would pick my battles and try not to get emotionally invested in any argument, but I dont think you should deny your own identity to try to fit in. I have very strange beliefs (compared to most people I meet) but When a topic of conversation comes up I voice my opinion unabashedly just like the next person. In some instances I get a lot of strange looks, but hey...its more comfortable for me to be me(even if that means otracization) than to go yhrough life uncomfortably pretending to be something im not. Also, alot of the topics that people talk about are just small talk chatter because no one is in the mood to discuss global macroeconomic theory at 9am on Sunday morning....

One interesting thing you could do if you find such idle chatter boring is to start to research human psychology and you could begin to study and analyze the person you are speaking to as if you were a psychoanalyst. I dont mean ask probing questions, but play around with them. Move in a little close when talking to them. Maybe try to interpret their body language or see how they react to certain things you say. Its all a game anyways, so when it gets boring try to do what you did when you were a kid.....change the rules a little. :-)


Again, i would really recommend picking up some Ralph Waldo Emerson as much of his writing deals with this topic. He was straining against an eveb more shallow and closed minded conformist society than anything anyone of us experiences today.

[FarmerD]

Let yourself be that standoffish know-it-all. In the beginning, you may push others away, but that's just who you are, and it's not like you're pulling them any closer by pretending to care about vapidity, or avoiding those subjects entirely. After a period of time, some of them will start to realize that you're the knowledgeable one in the community and will actually solicit your advice.

Most ignorant people realize they're ignorant, but they're too afraid to seek out knowledge. Knowing you will make it easier because there's already some type of social tie in place, and they know you're not going to judge them harshly  for asking your advice.

Upon further reflection, I think you're right.  On one hand I feel like I'm annoying people or wasting my time bothering to share my experience/knowledge with others but in the final analysis, they'll either like me for who I am or else they truly aren't worth it.   

[FarmerD]

One interesting thing you could do if you find such idle chatter boring is to start to research human psychology and you could begin to study and analyze the person you are speaking to as if you were a psychoanalyst. I dont mean ask probing questions, but play around with them. Move in a little close when talking to them. Maybe try to interpret their body language or see how they react to certain things you say. Its all a game anyways, so when it gets boring try to do what you did when you were a kid.....change the rules a little. :-)

Again, i would really recommend picking up some Ralph Waldo Emerson as much of his writing deals with this topic. He was straining against an eveb more shallow and closed minded conformist society than anything anyone of us experiences today.

Funny you mention the psychology of body movement.  Years ago me and a friend used to try out some neurolinguistic programming techniques (mirroring, anchoring, leading body movements) on people to see if they responded. Surprisingly, some were highly suggestive.     

I've never even read Walden - Obviously I have to read up on Emerson.

[BearBones]

Whenever we start thinking and talking about us vs them, it is our ego speaking. And in such cases, the work to be done falls on our shoulders, not theirs.

[KevinW]

“Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.”? - William Gibson

Maybe 99% of people are uninterested in me, and I'm uninterested in them. That's fine. In a country of 300 million that leaves 3 million potential friends, which is more than enough. If I don't click with someone, I don't force it, and just try to maintain a cordial if distant relationship.

[MediumTex]

“Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.”? - William Gibson

Maybe 99% of people are uninterested in me, and I'm uninterested in them. That's fine. In a country of 300 million that leaves 3 million potential friends, which is more than enough. If I don't click with someone, I don't force it, and just try to maintain a cordial if distant relationship.

The internet is great for making these connections.

I never would have crossed paths with any of you without this forum.

[BearBones]

The internet is great for making these connections.

I never would have crossed paths with any of you without this forum.

Funny how we define connections and crossing paths in this media driven society. Ha.

[MediumTex]

The internet is great for making these connections.

I never would have crossed paths with any of you without this forum.

Funny how we define connections and crossing paths in this media driven society. Ha.

Well, right.

In some ways, this forum is sort of like a big cerebral multiplayer video game, but it's also a great platform for sharing ideas and refining our own thinking. 

I think it's a connection and a crossed path, even if I have no idea what your real names are, what you look like, where you live, etc.  It's weird, but sometimes the anonymity seems to facilitate a much more authentic form of discussion.

[Coffee]

“Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.”? - William Gibson

Maybe 99% of people are uninterested in me, and I'm uninterested in them. That's fine. In a country of 300 million that leaves 3 million potential friends, which is more than enough. If I don't click with someone, I don't force it, and just try to maintain a cordial if distant relationship.

There's a lot of wisdom in this post. 
So much so that I'm stealing it and putting it on my Facebook page in the hopes that people will like me. 

[KevinW]

You're welcome to it.