Direction of forum

[BearBones]

I am finding that I read posts on this forum less often. Too bad, really, since I learned so much from this forum over the past several years, and there are so many absolutely brilliant members. Current interests seem to be less about investing and more about other things, especially libertarian issues. This compares to a year or two ago when there were more discussions about such things as iBonds, buying LTTs, gold storage, overseas diversification, bond convexity, and rebalancing schemes.

I am curious as to the sentiments of other members. I do not post this to be critical; rather, if many others feel likewise, perhaps we can discuss how to make this more useful. Or it may be that my sentiments are an aberration...

[MediumTex]

I think that there is a fluctuation with these things.

People sometimes need an opportunity to go have more interesting experiences and collect more knowledge that can be brought back here for discussion and analysis.

As far as the PP goes, it is important for people to mostly lose interest in it from time to time.  I think that's part of what makes it keep working.

[notsheigetz]

I think part of the reason there isn't more talk about investing is that the PP is so simple and works so well on auto-pilot that it doesn't leave that much to talk about.

[BearBones]

I think part of the reason there isn't more talk about investing is that the PP is so simple and works so well on auto-pilot that it doesn't leave that much to talk about.

I disagree. I find the concept of the PP simple, and the time spent on it is smaller than a lot of investment strategies. But the nuts and bolts are rather complex. How to implement a deep cash strategy via Treasury Direct? Sell LTTs when they reach 20 or 25 year maturity? How and when to rebalance? What to keep in taxable vs tax-deferred accounts? Should I store some gold overseas and, if so, where and how? Can I open a Canadian checking account and safe deposit box? How to file form 8621 when owning GTU in taxable account? How to get additional 5k in paper iBonds via overpaying in taxes?

IMO, such topics seemed to be much more common and well discussed on the forum a year or two ago.

[6 Iron]

When this forum began, I appreciated, and still do, the fact that economic, political and social issues were not taboo, compared to the mega-thread at the Bogleheads site. These topics are at times difficult to discuss without strong feelings and potentially insulting decarations, and if I were to say what disappoints me the most, it is the more frequent coarsening of some of these discussions over the years. When this board is at its best, we have very intelligent debates and respectful discussions that I enjoy reading and occasionally throwing in my $0.02.

As far as the nuts and bolts of the permanent portfolio, I am still learning things, but I am no longer on the steep part of the learning curve, so I enjoy the off topic discussions with other individuals who like delving deeply into subjects ranging from safety razors to modern monetary theory.

[RuralEngineer]

Forums are a product of their population.  If there are a lot of Libertarian topics it stands to reason that there are a significant portion of the active posters find those topics interesting, either for or against.  Stifling such discussion doesn't impact the population or its views (unless it causes reduced activity), it simply reduces the number of threads.  Ignoring those kinds of topics as an individual poster has the exact same effect.

I think this is one of the most diverse forums I've seen (regarding topics), and it certainly is the highest quality with respect to the average poster.  By and large I find the discussions, even the controversial ones, to be quite civil.

[Pres]

This forum has so much traffic these days that I can't keep up.

An RSS feed that only contains new threads (as apposed to every single post) would make it easier for me to get back on board.
Early-retirement.org has such an RSS feed. Very handy.

Any chance of getting such a feed? :-)

[clacy]

I really like the forum.  I wish some of the sub-forums were a little more active, but I get that this investment strategy is fairly simple and therefore you aren't going to have endless debates and creativity. 

I find the posters on this board to be extremely courteous and friendly. Discussions are intelligent but everyone seems open and respectful to differing opinions.  You don't see that on a lot of other forums.  In general trading forums typically, it is a big free for all with the majority of posters not acting in a respectful, intelligent way.  The bogleheads site is very intelligent, but suffers from "group think" IMO.

I do wish that Clive still posted here.  He really added to the VP forum.  I only hold about half of my money in the PP, so that forum appeals to me more than most I guess. 

[rhymenocerous]

I read the forum regularly, but often find I don't have a lot to contribute.  The strategy is so simple that there's just not a lot to debate, aside from some minor points, but that just amounts to tinkering around the edges.

[MachineGhost]

I think those of us that have already been through the "fact checking & implementation" phase of the PP are just simply bored of answering the same questions over and over.  I pretty much ignore all of the PP sections now.  I think part of the problem is new members don't use the search function and the other is there are no sticky, constantly updated FAQ's that would address those same old questions.  I have given thought to doing so, but I have more interesting fish to fry with my time, so to speak.

I'm even getting bored of posting news items to Other Discussions, although I really enjoy hearing and learning from everyone's perspectives and first-hand accounts.  I don't think the forum is too insular, but it certainly leans "right wing" for lack of a better term.  We only have a few "left wingers", but they do help moderate any extremism for those that are open-minded instead of ideologically dogmatic.  I would like to see more participation for more diversity, but Pareto's 80/20 rule applies to discussion forums.

The PP is anti-establishment, so it will attract the similarly minded.

[annieB]

As a new member,I find all the Other discussions just outstanding.
Lots of new ideas and interesting things to ponder.

[MediumTex]

What one person is getting tired of is new and exciting to another person who is just discovering it.

[Peak2Trough]

Put me in the OP's camp on this one.  It's frustrating to hit "Show unread posts" and see 70% of new threads are political in nature.  There are lots of places on the Internet to discuss politics, so I see no reason to dilute the signal to noise ratio here with it. 

My $0.02.

[BearBones]

Ah, a few good discussions/questions about cash, STTs and iBonds today, so I may move my vote up a notch. 

[melveyr]

It appears that the off topic forum is moving closer to a libertarian circle jerk (or perhaps I am simply becoming more aware of it) and I don't like that aspect of it.

However, the main forums are still providing their service of informing new investors with basic PP principles and methods of execution so that is great.

[KevinW]

I think we've maybe reached a plateau where all the frequently asked questions have been answered well in the PP book, craigr's blog, and/or the forum. So it's natural that novel topics come up less frequently than the used to.

Also, the stock market has been doing well recently, which tends to squelch interest in conservative investing. We probably have fewer new PPers coming onto the forum, and newbies tend to ask questions that spark technical conversations.

Mainstream politics is very polarized right now and it feels like that polarization has infected about 99% of everything. Sometimes it feels like every aspect of life has been painted bright red or bright blue. I stopped visiting sports car forums because they were hostile toward non-Republicans, and the same thing happened with bicycle sites and non-Democrats. There are a very few places left where people of differing political persuasions can come together and discuss a topic of interest and leave irrelevant partisanship at the door. This forum used to be one of those places, but recently there's been an undercurrent of bitter partisanship creeping into most threads. It's kind of a buzzkill.

[l82start]

i think the forum is still doing well and improving, i am still reading something or discovering something new almost every day, sometimes its investment related but just as often it isn't and it doesn't really matter, as long as the topic is intelligently discussed and it almost always is.

i don't see much in the way of partisan politics, i don't think the either the bigger government supporters or the limited government supporters here, have much faith in either party having the peoples best interest at heart. the shared skepticism seems to keep the partisan arguments, the shouting of talking points, and personal attacks to a very small minimum.. (certainly compared to other places politics gets discussed)

[dualstow]

I'm focusing more on reading (and rereading) the book now that I have time to do so.
I just swing by here to look at the Other section and Craig's blog entries, because my questions about implementation have been answered. Unless some new and better gold ETF comes along, I'm good.

Also, WiseOne isn't around much anymore. I miss her posts.

[BearBones]

Also, WiseOne isn't around much anymore. I miss her posts.

Agree. Rumor has it she posted again today...

[WiseOne]

Also, WiseOne isn't around much anymore. I miss her posts.

Sorry guys, the last few months have been crazy busy.  I agree with BearBones though, and will generally be staying away from the other discussion posts.  Not that they weren't worthwhile, and I'm glad it's there for those who are interested, but they're not why I got onto this forum in the first place.    And note, for a while nearly all the posts were in the "other" category.

The PP does indeed merit lots of new discussion, and it's great to see all the new forum members who surely have many questions.  Can we institute a category for people to ask for opinions on their portfolios, similar to what's on the Boglehead forum?

[MediumTex]

It appears that the off topic forum is moving closer to a libertarian circle jerk (or perhaps I am simply becoming more aware of it) and I don't like that aspect of it.

I appreciate this comment.

I hope that we can move to a more ideologically diversified circle jerk going forward. 

[Early Cuyler]

I'm not sure to be honest. On the one hand, I've never posted on a forum with such a high percentage of intelligent and interesting people before. I really mean that.

On the other hand, I don't really need the PP handholding I once did and the political discussions are a turn off.

[Benko]

I hope that we can move to a more ideologically diversified circle jerk going forward. 

But without the circle jerks we'd miss such great comments

[craigr]

When the forum was first setup it was primarily to address people that wanted to discuss items of the Permanent Portfolio without needing to wade through a big thread at the Diehards which had become huge. We wanted to provide focused areas where assets of stocks, bonds, cash and gold could be discussed in a very focused manner in relation to this strategy.

The other discussions area was just a place to discuss, well, other things! There are deliberately little rules around it because so far there has really been no need to have any rules about it as everyone tends to act like adults.

As for the politics side of things, we probably did waiver on that a bit in terms of topics because ideally we only want it related to investing matters. But it's kind of MediumTex's call on where he wants it go as he is the main forum admin. Basically if everyone is acting like adults we're not getting involved. Only rarely have we had to say anything, which is very unusual for an internet forum. So kudos to the members here for being adults.

With that said, I frankly don't really read the political threads. There are so many sites on the Internet to discuss politics that there are probably better venues to do it. Plus, there is so little I can do about the mess that I find it just kind of stresses me out for no reason. I have broken this rule a couple times (e.g. I really dislike Karl Marx and everything he stood for), but mostly engaging in political debates online convinces nobody really so I just avoid them now.

As for the PP side of things, there isn't much to discuss about it and this is kind of what we thought would eventually happen. Yes you get some new questions, etc. But once the portfolio is setup you basically just ignore it. So basically if we are doing our job, I'd expect the forum to get less useful to PP investors over time as they probably are worrying less about their money and don't need as much help with it.

That's probably why we see the "Other Discussions" area becoming more popular. Established members like talking to other people here, but don't necessarily need to go around tweaking their PP any more.

[dualstow]

I don't read the political threads much, but I for one am glad they're not deleted.

They're really heavy handed at Bogleheads. Yes, it's nice to not have to wade through politics there but you can't even post, say, that the minimum wage has not kept up with the rising cost of bread and milk. I know this for a fact, because I posted it and saw it deleted. (and then received a lecture).
As long as the auxilliary stuff is placed neatly in Variable or Other, this forum remains readable.