EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance (UPDATED Feb 4 2013)

spark · Post by **spark** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:37 am

Hi

The following euro pp was initiated on 21th nov 2012. Here is the performance

Update on feb-4-2013
The % column in the data is calculated from inital purchase price and current market value of the asset.
The initial purchase includes broker fees. Very poor performance until now.

------ CHART (Data at the end of message)

DATE Stocks Long bonds Cash Gold
Purchase SXXEEX:GR IBCL:GR CBEONIA:GR VZLD Total %
21/11 2531,529 2583,135 2511,600 2512,788 10139,052
21/11/2012 2483,910 2537,400 2477,424 2504,447 10003,181 -1,340
22/11/2012 2491,830 2539,200 2477,280 2500,400 10008,710 -1,286
23/11/2012 2530,440 2540,250 2477,280 2507,430 10055,400 -0,825
26/11/2012 2506,680 2543,700 2477,280 2509,330 10036,990 -1,007
27/11/2012 2511,630 2550,150 2477,280 2508,190 10047,250 -0,905
28/11/2012 2517,570 2582,850 2477,424 2469,430 10047,274 -0,905
29/11/2012 2550,240 2588,700 2477,424 2472,470 10088,834 -0,495
30/11/2012 2555,190 2597,250 2477,280 2447,580 10077,300 -0,609
03/12/2012 2557,170 2594,400 2477,448 2439,790 10068,808 -0,693
04/12/2012 2556,180 2599,800 2477,280 2411,860 10045,120 -0,926
05/12/2012 2561,130 2606,400 2477,424 2399,016 10043,970 -0,938
06/12/2012 2578,950 2604,900 2477,424 2436,750 10098,024 -0,405
07/12/2012 2582,910 2603,700 2477,280 2447,960 10111,850 -0,268
10/12/2012 2570,040 2582,550 2477,448 2462,970 10093,008 -0,454
11/12/2012 2592,810 2591,400 2477,424 2443,590 10105,224 -0,334
12/12/2012 2600,730 2606,100 2477,280 2438,650 10122,760 -0,161
13/12/2012 2597,760 2608,800 2477,424 2411,879 10095,863 -0,426
14/12/2012 2612,610 2622,600 2477,424 2394,760 10107,394 -0,312
18/12/2012 2619,540 2615,100 2477,280 2367,210 10079,130 -0,591
19/12/2012 2633,400 2622,600 2477,424 2344,790 10078,214 -0,600
20/12/2012 2635,380 2630,550 2477,424 2302,895 10046,249 -0,915
21/12/2012 2642,310 2633,850 2477,280 2334,910 10088,350 -0,500
29/12/2012 2610,630 2649,000 2477,520 2338,900 10076,050 -0,621
02/01/2013 2676,960 2632,950 2477,448 2381,080 10168,438 0,290
03/01/2013 2673,000 2618,850 2477,280 2379,940 10149,070 0,099
04/01/2013 2689,830 2605,800 2477,280 2347,127 10120,037 -0,188
07/01/2013 2671,020 2606,850 2477,424 2336,810 10092,104 -0,463
08/01/2013 2668,050 2616,300 2477,280 2357,140 10118,770 -0,200
09/01/2013 2683,890 2615,400 2477,400 2360,370 10137,060 -0,020
10/01/2013 2679,930 2608,800 2477,400 2348,590 10114,720 -0,240
11/01/2013 2691,810 2609,850 2477,424 2310,780 10089,864 -0,485
14/01/2013 2683,890 2605,950 2477,376 2313,630 10080,846 -0,574
15/01/2013 2674,980 2616,450 2477,424 2343,080 10111,934 -0,267
16/01/2013 2678,940 2612,400 2477,424 2346,500 10115,264 -0,235
17/01/2013 2697,750 2605,200 2477,424 2350,889 10131,263 -0,077
18/01/2013 2705,670 2631,600 2477,424 2351,820 10166,514 0,271
21/01/2013 2708,640 2616,600 2477,424 2357,330 10159,994 0,207
22/01/2013 2705,670 2619,300 2477,424 2366,640 10169,034 0,296
23/01/2013 2697,750 2623,650 2477,424 2357,140 10155,964 0,167
24/01/2013 2728,440 2616,750 2477,424 2294,630 10117,244 -0,215
31/01/2013 2697,750 2613,450 2477,424 2274,110 10062,734 -0,753
01/02/2013 2708,640 2610,750 2477,448 2265,560 10062,398 -0,756
04/02/2013 2698,740 2596,500 2477,280 2277,340 10049,860 -0,880

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:48 pm

Bad start

...

good end

Hang on
&
Stick to the plan!

spark · Post by **spark** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:26 am

Yes quite bad start as you see.
I will keep the plan for at least one year to evaluate.

In a way euro PP is quite complicated because there is 2 europes. One is the europe in the monetary union and a part outside of EMU the other one include the 27 countries. This peculiar situation makes it difficult.

As an example the book says the eurostoxx 600 is a good choice but if you live in the EMU, it contains a lot from UK so it is may be a good choice but it depends where you are in europe

.

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:31 am

spark wrote: Yes quite bad start as you see.
I will keep the plan for at least one year to evaluate.

In a way euro PP is quite complicated because there is 2 europes. One is the europe in the monetary union and a part outside of EMU the other one include the 27 countries. This peculiar situation makes it difficult.

As an example the book says the eurostoxx 600 is a good choice but if you live in the EMU, it contains a lot from UK so it is may be a good choice but it depends where you are in europe .

1- One year is nothing, at least 3-4 years
My big fear is a big drawdown that can provoke panic

2- Ideally you shouldn't use UK stocks because of currency risk.
SXXEEX:GR has non EUR stocks?

Best regards

spark · Post by **spark** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:10 am

Hi

No i did choose particularly SXXEEX:GR because it containes only the stocks of the eurozone being listed in the eurostoxx 600.

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:30 am

SPARK,

a) Why don't you use more than one ETF for each asset to diversify?

b) Germany has higher tax for the dividends, do you know how to make a PP on another country? With ETF's from Ireland for example, or Luxemburg...

c) My bigger difficulty is to have money far from me, out of the country, it seems out of control, we don't know people's faces... Do you have all assets in your home country?

d) Physical Gold is also very difficult for my head

Vaults I don't like and having it at home same. Where can we sell the gold if necessary?

Best regards.

spark · Post by **spark** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:22 am

frugal wrote: SPARK,

a) Why don't you use more than one ETF for each asset to diversify?

--- If you have more than one etf per asset you will only multiply your fees reequilibrating.

b) Germany has higher tax for the dividends, do you know how to make a PP on another country? With ETF's from Ireland for example, or Luxemburg...

--- If a crash happens to the euro, my assets will quote in deutshmarks I will probably lose much less then.

c) My bigger difficulty is to have money far from me, out of the country, it seems out of control, we don't know people's faces... Do you have all assets in your home country?

--- Germany is not my home country. I have the etfs through a broker.

d) Physical Gold is also very difficult for my head Vaults I don't like and having it at home same. Where can we sell the gold if necessary?

--- Investigate swiss gold bank accounts the book speaks about this did you read it ?

Best regards.

Sincerely

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:04 am

Spark,

you can rebalance in just one Asset each year.

Each year one.

How will you do in 15 years? Always 4 ETFs?

Regards

spark · Post by **spark** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:24 am

frugal wrote: Spark,

you can rebalance in just one Asset each year.

Each year one.

How will you do in 15 years? Always 4 ETFs?

Regards

You canot do like this, HB says you re-equilibrate all once a year.

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:14 am

No,

for example

Gold position = ETF 1 + ETF 2 + ETF 3

You rebalance one ETF each year and try to keep then as near as possible one from the others.

Isn't this diversification of ETF issuers?

spark · Post by **spark** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:06 am

frugal wrote: No,

for example

Gold position = ETF 1 + ETF 2 + ETF 3

You rebalance one ETF each year and try to keep then as near as possible one from the others.

Isn't this diversification of ETF issuers?

try it.
I tried 8 etfs (2 in each catégory) so i could see.

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:37 am

spark wrote:
frugal wrote: No,

for example

Gold position = ETF 1 + ETF 2 + ETF 3

You rebalance one ETF each year and try to keep then as near as possible one from the others.

Isn't this diversification of ETF issuers?
try it.
I tried 8 etfs (2 in each catégory) so i could see.

"2-don't use the same etf provider for all your etfs because your pp will depend only on one firm. "

you wrote this

For physical gold you don't go? Why?

spark · Post by **spark** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:20 pm

"2-don't use the same etf provider for all your etfs because your pp will depend only on one firm. "

you wrote this

Yes and i have 3 providers look at the bloomberg with the codes i gave.

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:32 pm

SPARK

and how many brokers?

Why don't you buy direct german bonds?

Regards

spark · Post by **spark** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:59 am

frugal wrote: SPARK

Why don't you buy direct german bonds?

Regards

Not really useful with a small portfolio. Look at the paperwork Marc Demessel has done for this.
On top i dont think you must only use german bounds if you are in eurozone.

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:15 pm

Hi,

Can you help me selecting 4 diferent ETFs for European stocks?

Now I have one Amundi Index fund, but ETFs are less expensive.

Thanks.

spark · Post by **spark** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:29 am

frugal wrote: Hi,

Can you help me selecting 4 diferent ETFs for European stocks?

Now I have one Amundi Index fund, but ETFs are less expensive.

Thanks.

If you are in eurozone you can use the same as mines.
In europe outside eurozone, you have to have a wilders etfs including uk and other european countries.

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:05 pm

Hello

I would like to use more than ONE ETF

Can you give me 2 more choices:

EXSI / SXXEEX / ...

Regards

spark · Post by **spark** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:57 am

frugal wrote: Hello

I would like to use more than ONE ETF

Can you give me 2 more choices:

EXSI / SXXEEX / ...

The 2 etfs I choosed for stocks and bonds are the only one I found that feet fore eurozone PP. There is other but with no dividends. For cash and gold you have it in the book. Many solutions are given.

Regards

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:04 am

Hi,

these:

IMEU

EXSI

CEU

VGK

ERO

IUSQ

IQQY

DXET

EXSA

IERA

EUEA

IEUX

Why not?

Regards

spark · Post by **spark** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:49 am

frugal wrote: Hi,

these:

IMEU

EXSI

CEU

VGK

ERO

IUSQ

IQQY

DXET

EXSA

IERA

EUEA

IEUX

Why not?

Regards

Choose and try. I can't look at all of them.
You have to look a each etf and see what it contains and see if it feets with HB recommations. Nothing difficult.
In a way i don't understand if you red the book how can you select VGK wich is in USD, covers all europe including UK, switzerland etc if you are in eurozone ??

spark · Post by **spark** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:41 am

Update on feb-4-2013

Here is the update the % column is calculated from inital purchase price and current market value of the asset.
The initial purchase includes broker fees.

DATE Stocks Long bonds Cash Gold
Purchase SXXEEX:GR IBCL:GR CBEONIA:GR VZLD Total %
21/11 2531,529 2583,135 2511,600 2512,788 10139,052
21/11/2012 2483,910 2537,400 2477,424 2504,447 10003,181 -1,340
22/11/2012 2491,830 2539,200 2477,280 2500,400 10008,710 -1,286
23/11/2012 2530,440 2540,250 2477,280 2507,430 10055,400 -0,825
26/11/2012 2506,680 2543,700 2477,280 2509,330 10036,990 -1,007
27/11/2012 2511,630 2550,150 2477,280 2508,190 10047,250 -0,905
28/11/2012 2517,570 2582,850 2477,424 2469,430 10047,274 -0,905
29/11/2012 2550,240 2588,700 2477,424 2472,470 10088,834 -0,495
30/11/2012 2555,190 2597,250 2477,280 2447,580 10077,300 -0,609
03/12/2012 2557,170 2594,400 2477,448 2439,790 10068,808 -0,693
04/12/2012 2556,180 2599,800 2477,280 2411,860 10045,120 -0,926
05/12/2012 2561,130 2606,400 2477,424 2399,016 10043,970 -0,938
06/12/2012 2578,950 2604,900 2477,424 2436,750 10098,024 -0,405
07/12/2012 2582,910 2603,700 2477,280 2447,960 10111,850 -0,268
10/12/2012 2570,040 2582,550 2477,448 2462,970 10093,008 -0,454
11/12/2012 2592,810 2591,400 2477,424 2443,590 10105,224 -0,334
12/12/2012 2600,730 2606,100 2477,280 2438,650 10122,760 -0,161
13/12/2012 2597,760 2608,800 2477,424 2411,879 10095,863 -0,426
14/12/2012 2612,610 2622,600 2477,424 2394,760 10107,394 -0,312
18/12/2012 2619,540 2615,100 2477,280 2367,210 10079,130 -0,591
19/12/2012 2633,400 2622,600 2477,424 2344,790 10078,214 -0,600
20/12/2012 2635,380 2630,550 2477,424 2302,895 10046,249 -0,915
21/12/2012 2642,310 2633,850 2477,280 2334,910 10088,350 -0,500
29/12/2012 2610,630 2649,000 2477,520 2338,900 10076,050 -0,621
02/01/2013 2676,960 2632,950 2477,448 2381,080 10168,438 0,290
03/01/2013 2673,000 2618,850 2477,280 2379,940 10149,070 0,099
04/01/2013 2689,830 2605,800 2477,280 2347,127 10120,037 -0,188
07/01/2013 2671,020 2606,850 2477,424 2336,810 10092,104 -0,463
08/01/2013 2668,050 2616,300 2477,280 2357,140 10118,770 -0,200
09/01/2013 2683,890 2615,400 2477,400 2360,370 10137,060 -0,020
10/01/2013 2679,930 2608,800 2477,400 2348,590 10114,720 -0,240
11/01/2013 2691,810 2609,850 2477,424 2310,780 10089,864 -0,485
14/01/2013 2683,890 2605,950 2477,376 2313,630 10080,846 -0,574
15/01/2013 2674,980 2616,450 2477,424 2343,080 10111,934 -0,267
16/01/2013 2678,940 2612,400 2477,424 2346,500 10115,264 -0,235
17/01/2013 2697,750 2605,200 2477,424 2350,889 10131,263 -0,077
18/01/2013 2705,670 2631,600 2477,424 2351,820 10166,514 0,271
21/01/2013 2708,640 2616,600 2477,424 2357,330 10159,994 0,207
22/01/2013 2705,670 2619,300 2477,424 2366,640 10169,034 0,296
23/01/2013 2697,750 2623,650 2477,424 2357,140 10155,964 0,167
24/01/2013 2728,440 2616,750 2477,424 2294,630 10117,244 -0,215
31/01/2013 2697,750 2613,450 2477,424 2274,110 10062,734 -0,753
01/02/2013 2708,640 2610,750 2477,448 2265,560 10062,398 -0,756
04/02/2013 2698,740 2596,500 2477,280 2277,340 10049,860 -0,880

frugal · Post by **frugal** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:07 am

Spark,

you invested 2500EUR in each asset?

Huge commissions...

Where in Europe is your broker?

Regards

spark · Post by **spark** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:50 am

frugal wrote: Spark,

you invested 2500EUR in each asset?

Huge commissions...

Where in Europe is your broker?

Regards

It is not 2500 of each it is approximately 2500 of each.
Assets have different prices you canot buy exactly 2500 of each.

EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance (UPDATED Feb 4 2013)

EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance (UPDATED Feb 4 2013)

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance

Re: EURO PP initiated on 21 th november 2012 performance