What If Saturated Fats Are Essential?

[Gumby]

I don't think you would need to be on the GAPS intro for more than 30 days — and I think you could skip to Full GAPS even sooner if you were able to tolerate specific items on Full GAPs. Officially speaking, you transition to Full GAPS in "stages" based on what you can tolerate. Some people move through the intro in a matter of days.

For instance, here is one online journal where someone had terrific success on GAPS and moved through the intro in about 19 days...

http://gnowfglins.com/2012/07/13/our-ex ... ntro-diet/

Be sure to notice the reduction is skin symptoms in her journal.

Some people with major digestive issues (diarrhea, bloating, etc) can take a few months before they graduate to full GAPS. Basically you stay on GAPS intro until you can tolerate items on Full GAPS (via physical skin tests, digestion observation, etc).

If that's still confusing, here's a good resource that walks you through the steps...

http://theliberatedkitchenpdx.com/basic ... resources/

Perhaps the greatest feature of the GAPS intro diet isn't so much what's in it, but what isn't in it. In other words, we know that bone broth is "healing," but at the same time you're eliminating certain foods to starve out bad bacteria and eliminating foods that might irritate the lining of the gut. So, it's really three-pronged approach.

I'm still wondering if bone broth is just isn't the whole food extreme-purist, suboptimal approach to getting at what is really need.  Why wouldn't adding powdered gelatin to some beef broth not have most of the same gut healing effect?

I definitely see your point, and you might be 100% right. But I'm not entirely sure that mixing together a synthetic soup of supplements would give you a tasty bone broth. Unless it tasted exactly the same, one would have to assume that they were somehow different in some unknown way (co-factors, flavors, additives etc). I really don't know.

Here would be my questions... Don't supplements have unlisted things in them (additives, stearates, acids, oils) that allow them to move through machines that could possibly irritate the gut? Don't supplements go through a process (heating, dry-freezing, etc) that could degrade the bioavailability of nutrients or co-factors? I don't know the answer to those questions, but I wonder if the supplemental version would be as pure, soothing or as bioavailable as the bone broth. I just don't know.

Let's keep in mind that bone broth has been historically used to heal guts for centuries. And while you may have been eating gut healing supplements for years, the very fact that you have high inflammatory responses to certain foods suggests that your gut is most likely still inflamed and perhaps "leaking" toxins into your bloodstream — and therefore we might ascertain that your gut still needs some kind of healing. Again, this speaks to Hippocrates as well as Stokes/Pillsbury's gut-skin hypothesis.

So, here's a speculative theory, MG...

Isn't there a chance that something in one of your 35 supplements is irritating the lining of your stomach? Or could it be the total combined level of the additives in all your supplements that are irritating the lining of the stomach?  If so, then a "whole food extreme-purist" approach might actually give your gut a chance to heal. I'm just speculating, but I can't help but wonder if there's a good scientific reason why a "whole food extreme-purist" approach might be ideal here.

You could certainly recreate a lot of a whole foods diet with supplements, but I'm fairly certain you'd be eating a lot of pill/powder/additive material as well.

I'm wiling to guess that your inflammatory response predates your supplement usage (I seem to remember you saying that this all started around puberty). But, if you've spent the past few years trying to alleviate your symptoms with supplements, it might just be that those supplements aren't giving your gut a chance to heal.

My theory is purely speculative, but I only bring it up as an explainable reason why a whole foods approach might work better (i.e. our stomachs evolved to eat foods, not supplement additives).

[Benko]

I have dairy, soy, egg and rice intolerances,

MG,

If you have wheat/gluten issues as well (I would almost be surprised if you did not) you might think about Glisonin since it contains Gliadin, a wheat protein.

[MachineGhost]

If you have wheat/gluten issues as well (I would almost be surprised if you did not) you might think about Glisonin since it contains Gliadin, a wheat protein.

I sure do, wheat will give me brain fog and blurred vision after ingestion.  I'm aware of the gliadin, but theres no practical alternative for ingesting bioavailable SOD at the moment, so I tolerate it.  As Gumby suspected, I did have these potential "leaky gut" issues long before I went on a supplement regime.  In fact, I'm very sensitive to anything amiss in a capsule, like rice flour, which I can't imagine is more than a tiny, minuscle quantity!

Those specialized digestive enzymes designed especially for digesting wheat proteins....  they will literally knock me out with drowsiness when taking along with wheat.  Its as if way, way more wheat protein gets digested and absorbed vs without.  Not sure how that relates to "leaky gut".

[Gumby]

Here we go... Chris Kresser shows evidence why "food synergy" is so important and why you should throw away most synthetic vitamins and antioxidants:

http://chriskresser.com/throw-away-your ... tioxidants

"In our view, the better “insurance”? would be to eat food with a broad coverage of nutrients and take no supplements at all, unless they are deemed necessary to fix a specific medical problem."
Source: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/5/1543S

[Benko]

Here we go... Chris Kresser shows evidence why "food synergy" is so important and why you should throw away most synthetic vitamins and antioxidants:

For those who don't follow the link it is important to note that even he agree Vit D, fish oil and vit K are worthy as supplements.  I would add coenzyme Q-10 which is probably worthwhile for many/most, and appropriate form e.g. sublingual B12 for those over 50.**

It is important to note that getting things from food as much as possible is probably best.  But just as thinking that supplements are the answer to everything is not a great idea, it is important to be aware that there are no substitutes for certain supplements.

**I'm excluding resveratrol and other such substances which are another discussion/mindset.

[Gumby]

Here we go... Chris Kresser shows evidence why "food synergy" is so important and why you should throw away most synthetic vitamins and antioxidants:

For those who don't follow the link it is important to note that even he agree Vit D, fish oil and vit K are worthy as supplements.  

Indeed. And thanks for pointing that out, Benko!

However, while Kresser is a fan of high quality fish oils, he cautions that there is evidence showing that too much Fish Oil may cause health problems over the long term...

See:

Chris Kresser: When it comes to fish oil, more is not better
Christ Masterhjohn: Precious Yet Perilous

Article summary
• The benefits of fish oil supplementation have been grossly overstated
• Most of the studies showing fish oil benefits are short-term, lasting less than one year
• The only fish oil study lasting more than four years showed an increase in heart disease and sudden death
• Fish oil is highly unstable and vulnerable to oxidative damage
• There’s no evidence that healthy people benefit from fish oil supplementation
• Taking several grams of fish oil per day may be hazardous to your health
Source: http://chriskresser.com/when-it-comes-t ... not-better

Basically, consuming lots of fragile oils (fish oils, seed oils, etc) are a recipe for oxidative damage (as MG previously hypothesized a few weeks ago). This speaks to why saturated fat and monounsaturated fat have their benefits.

Nevertheless, Kresser is still a fan of Fish Oil in small to moderate quantities, depending on the individual. He recommends Fish Oil to friends and family and has posted a list of the best Fish Oils here:

Chris Kresser: The definitive fish oil buyer’s guide

And the dosage of fish oil really depends on how much Omega-6 one consumes. Ideally, it's far better to just reduce Omega-6 rather than relying on Fish Oil to even out one's ratio (i.e. don't think Fish Oil will make up for a diet that's high in Omega-6).

Chris Kresser: How much omega-3 is enough? That depends on omega-6.

Basically, eat more seafood (flax doesn't cut it, since flax doesn't have enough EPA & DHA) and reduce Omega-6 consumption.

EDIT: Additionally, grass fed/pastured meats have a more favorable n-6/n-3 ratio. Here's a great chart that compares the ratio of grain fed vs. grass fed meats (see last column):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... /table/T2/

It's really stunning how much Omega 6 is in grain fed meats!

[Benko]

*****

depending on the individual.

****

Not enough emphasis is put on this when considering supps.

There are also natural fat soluable antioxidants e.g. vit E and others (nuts have vit E) can help problem of oxidation of fish oils.

The amount of fish oil and GLA (e.g. evening primrose oil, borage oil, etc), an anti-inflammatory omega 6 depends on the person.  Fish oil also makes the blood "thinner" i.e. clot less which for most people is a big advantage.

I think the body needs saturated fats, monos and poly's i.e. omega 3s.

[MachineGhost]

Here we go... Chris Kresser shows evidence why "food synergy" is so important and why you should throw away most synthetic vitamins and antioxidants:

I don't take anything synthetic if I can avoid it.  But I do consider it an overblown issue because only multi-vitamins and a few antioxidants derived from petroleum, etc. are synthetic.  Easily avoidable.  If non-vitamin and non-mineral supplements were synthetic, they would have to be regulated through the FDA boondoggle as a drug.

Even Ubiquinol (CoQ10) is just natural yeast poop.  Perhaps a convincing argument could be made that GliSODin is synthetic.  It's certainly not a form found naturally in nature even if both ingredients are natural.

I find the parallels between synthetic vitamins/antioxidants and GE food interesting.  Both could be argued to be "natural", but hardly naturally occuring.

[Gumby]

I don't take anything synthetic if I can avoid it.

Right, but I think Kresser is really talking about the necessity of "food synergy", as detailed in the study he cited.

[MachineGhost]

Anyone have any idea how many of the below would make how much bone broth?

http://www.grasslandbeef.com/Detail.bok?no=557

[Gumby]

Anyone have any idea how many of the below would make how much bone broth?

http://www.grasslandbeef.com/Detail.bok?no=557

While US Wellness Meats is a great company and their meats are of excellent quality, they are pretty expensive. I would only use them for things that you can't obtain locally (I use them for Beef Tallow). Since you live in California, you actually have some very good local grass fed options. You just need to know where to look.

For instance, "Sun Fed Organic Beef" is sold at many stores in your region.

"Sun Fed is 100% Certified Organic Grass-Fed Beef born, raised, and processed in Northern California. Sun Fed Organic Beef cattle are raised in accordance with strict guidelines set forth by the USDA, NOP and CCOF Organic standards. Their cattle graze on the lush fertilizer and pesticide-free grasslands on the North Coast of California."

http://www.sunbeef.com/Availability.html

And here's another high quality butcher in the San Diego area...

http://www.homegrownmeats.com

I'd be willing to get you could call up any of those stores and ask them to order a bag of grass-fed organic bones for a lot cheaper than US Wellness Meats. It's not unheard of to get local grass fed beef bones for $5/bag.

Eventually you will find a few local butchers and resources that do their best to obtain grass-fed and pastured meats. Whole Foods is not one of those places. Whole Foods is good for some things, but it's really the Wal*Mart of organic food — top quality isn't always their priority.

If you're up for it, the quickest way to find out about the insider tips to obtaining grass fed meats is to contact a local WAPF chapter leader. Scroll down to "California" in the following list...

http://www.westonaprice.org/local-chapt ... al-chapter

...and just email one of the people closest to you. They will be able to tell you the best places to obtain top quality local ingredients. Sometimes it's just going to a farmer's market and buying from someone with a cooler full of meats. Sometimes it's a specific butcher, etc. But, I doubt there is a shortage of high quality options where you live.

Another option is to look for local farms at the following websites:

http://eatwild.com
http://localharvest.org
http://americangrassfed.org

Anyway, to answer your question, you need enough bones to fill up a stock pot or crock pot to 3/4 full. And I think it will be too expensive to order them from US Wellness Meats. Go local if you can.

Here's a quick recipe...

http://www.keeperofthehome.org/2008/01/ ... tchen.html

and here's a 12 minute video from start to finish...

http://undergroundwellness.com/how-to-m ... one-broth/

Those recipe versions probably aren't legal for "Intro" GAPS — I believe "Intro" GAPS might be "bones only" — but they have some good tips and give you an idea of the kinds of bone broth you can make.

[Gumby]

I think the body needs saturated fats, monos and poly's i.e. omega 3s.

I couldn't agree more. So knowing what we now know, let's take another look at the fats available to us...

Duck and Goose Fat are semisolid at room temperature, containing about 35% saturated fat, 52% monounsaturated fat (including small amounts of antimicrobial palmitoleic acid) and about 13% polyunsaturated fat.

Chicken Fat is about 31% saturated, 49% monounsaturated (including moderate amounts of antimicrobial palmitoleic acid) and 20% polyunsaturated

Lard or pork fat is about 40% saturated, 48% monounsaturated (including small amounts of antimicrobial palmitoleic acid) and 12% polyunsaturated.

Beef and Mutton Tallows are 50-55% saturated, about 40% monounsaturated and contain small amounts of the polyunsaturates, usually less than 3%. Suet, which is the fat from the cavity of the animal, is 70-80% saturated.

Olive Oil contains 75% oleic acid, the stable monounsaturated fat, along with 13% saturated fat, 10% omega-6 linoleic acid and 2% omega-3 linolenic acid

Peanut Oil contains 48% oleic acid, 18% saturated fat and 34% omega-6 linoleum acid

Sesame Oil contains 42% oleic acid, 15% saturated fat, and 43% omega-6 linoleum acid

Source: http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-f ... y-on-fats/

And if we cross reference that with an analysis of grass fed/pastured meats versus grain-fed meats, we can easily see that the grass-fed/pastured meats have a very favorable n-6/n-3 ratio. Here's that great chart again that compares the ratio of grain fed vs. grass fed meats (see last column):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... /table/T2/

So, it's pretty clear that nature provided our species with the spectrum of Omega-6/Omega-3 balanced saturated/monos/polys fats — or at least, we evolved to utilize those spectrum of fats. And of course, there are hundreds of other animal species out there, each with a wide range of saturated/monos/polys fat spectrums.

And fish, which is essential to the diet, is pretty much pure Omega-3 and balances out all of these fats very nicely.

However, the "garbage in, garbage out" theory still holds true. Conventional meats are just too high in Omega-6, as we see in the analysis, above. And most Americans slather those grain-fed meats in fragile/oxidized polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats that have too much Omega-6 in them (as we see in the table, above) and then apply heat, which only makes those fragile fats oxidize even more.

FYI, despite the nice spectrum of fats found in pork and poultry, the big problem with pork and poultry is that 90% of the time they are fed grains and "bakery waste" — often making their fats very high in Omega-6. If you ever go to a conventional farm, you'll see that pigs are often fed old hamburger buns that barely cost anything. So, a pastured pig or pastured chicken can actually be quite expensive.

[Benko]

Grass fed meat is an acquired taste.  I suppose I should try it again.

Omega 3 precursors found e.g. in meat, flax, etc are not always converted to EPA/DHA (sorry vegetarians).  Older people and infants really need DHA which is important in brain function and thus the importance of taking e.g. at least some fish oil (and pregnant women taking fish oil).

There are people who talk about the separate properties of EPA VS DHA and for a time I was taking supps with more DHA vs EPA.  I went back to "regular" fish oil after one report (no memory of details) about possible adverse effects of DHA.   I suppose you can probably find one report on the adverse effects of anything.

Quality of supps matters.  I tend to stick with some brands that sell to docs, or e.g. Jarrow, Now brand, THorne, Nordic naturals, etc.  

Gumby--would you care to go into business together?  We could market Duck and Goose (or Duck Duck Goose) fat.  It'll be the next coconut oil ;-)

[Gumby]

Grass fed meat is an acquired taste.  I suppose I should try it again.

Grass fed meat actually requires entirely different cooking methods to get the flavors right, which really says something about physically how different grass fed meat is!

See:

http://grassfedcooking.com
http://grassfedcooking.com/2011/top-5-g ... -misteaks/

And two good cookbooks:

The Grassfed Gourmet
The Farmer and the Grill

Omega 3 precursors found e.g. in meat, flax, etc are not always converted to EPA/DHA (sorry vegetarians).

Yes, but unlike plants and seeds, grass fed meat has pre-formed EPA and DHA in it. For example, a cow eats the ALA found in plants and the cow uses it to make EPA/DHA, which we come along and eat. Now, obviously the EPA/DHA in grass fed meat is nowhere near the amount found in fish, but the point is that by eating an herbivore (particularly its organs) you can obtain some essential fatty acids without having to do all the work. That doesn't happen with plants.

Kresser explains your point in detail here. He says that research shows that less than 5% of ALA (i.e. the Omega-3 precursor found in plants and Flax Oil) gets converted to EPA, and less than 0.5% (one-half of one percent) of ALA is converted to DHA. So, you are absolutely correct. Furthermore, vegetarians/vegans are notoriously bad at this conversion process since they tend to be deficient in iron, zinc and pyridoxine (Vitamin B6) which are necessary for the conversion. He says this is why studies show that vegans are generally unable to raise DHA levels from Flax Oil.

Anyway, the point is that by eating fish a few times a week (or taking fish oil) and pastured meats, you can obtain healthy portions of EPA and DHA — although clearly most of it comes from eating Fish (or Fish Oil).

There are people who talk about the separate properties of EPA VS DHA and for a time I was taking supps with more DHA vs EPA.  I went back to "regular" fish oil after one report (no memory of details) about possible adverse effects of DHA.   I suppose you can probably find one report on the adverse effects of anything.

DHA appears to be more important. See: http://chriskresser.com/why-fish-stomps ... of-omega-3

Quality of supps matters.  I tend to stick with some brands that sell to docs, or e.g. Jarrow, Now brand, THorne, Nordic naturals, etc.

Or just eat fatty fish a few times a week. The mercury in fish is typically not a concern for most people as long as the fish has a good amount of selenium in it.

See: http://chriskresser.com/the-truth-about ... ry-in-fish

Gumby--would you care to go into business together?  We could market Duck and Goose (or Duck Duck Goose) fat.  It'll be the next coconut oil ;-)

Mmmm... How about a restaurant that serves french fries fried in Duckfat? The Belgians got that right.

[Benko]

DHA appears to be more important.

I don't know if it is that simple (I suspect it is not).  They have different properties.  DHA is perhaps more important for brain issues.  EPA other benefits.

A quick search turns up this article by Sears (remember the zone?) not that he is infallible, just the first article I ran across.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in- ... pa-and-dha

and I've seen other articles talking about this issue, but I never felt it important enough to spend the time to thoroughly research it.    I would reserch the issue IF YOU INTEND TAKING e.g. DHA predom supp.

[Gumby]

DHA appears to be more important.

I don't know if it is that simple (I suspect it is not).  They have different properties.  DHA is perhaps more important for brain issues.  EPA other benefits.

A quick search turns up this article by Sears (remember the zone?) not that he is infallible, just the first article I ran across.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in- ... pa-and-dha

and I've seen other articles talking about this issue, but I never felt it important enough to spend the time to thoroughly research it.    I would reserch the issue IF YOU INTEND TAKING e.g. DHA predom supp.

That's correct. The article I posted said the exact same thing as Dr. Sears, but after acknowledging the importance of EPAs inflammatory-blocking effect, the article concluded by saying...

EPA is often referred to as “anti-inflammatory”?... EPA’s effect seems to be more of an interference with the metabolism of omega-6 arachidonic acid (AA) than the performance of any essential role itself... Because it has the same number of carbon atoms, EPA competes with AA for the enzymes that metabolize it. Since the prostaglandins made by EPA are less inflammatory than those made by AA, EPA is often referred to as “anti-inflammatory”?.

But while EPA is certainly less inflammatory than AA, it doesn’t make sense that the body would require an essential fatty acid just to block the inflammatory effects of another fatty acid.

By contrast, DHA is used to synthesize compounds that play an active role in resolving inflammation. EPA only makes these compounds in the presence of aspirin (PDF). EPA is thus likely to simply be a byproduct of compromised DHA synthesis.

Source: http://chriskresser.com/why-fish-stomps ... of-omega-3

Interesting hypothesis. Anyway, I just find it fascinating. I have no plans to consume any DHA other than what comes in my fish and the small amount in my daily 1/2 teaspoon of fermented cod liver oil.

[WiseOne]

Grass fed meat is an acquired taste.  I suppose I should try it again.

Grass fed meat actually requires entirely different cooking methods to get the flavors right, which really says something about physically how different grass fed meat is!

See:

http://grassfedcooking.com
http://grassfedcooking.com/2011/top-5-g ... -misteaks/

And two good cookbooks:

The Grassfed Gourmet
The Farmer and the Grill

Ha, I will have to tell Shannon that her cookbooks were recommended on this forum!  I've known her for years, through the Halcottsville (NY) farmer's market, near Margaretville.  She and her husband both went to Cornell, where she has a graduate degree in English literature.  Now they live with their extended family on the farm - it's a great story.

I'll second the quality of the recipes in those books, and add that Shannon's meats are what got me to switch entirely to grassfed.  I won't touch USDA Choice now with a 10 foot pole.  The trick is not to overcook it - temperatures are 10-20 degrees lower than you might be used to - and realize that it's going to be tougher and gamier than standard supermarket fare, which is all part of the charm. 

There's a beef broth recipe in Grassfed Gourmet.  Fill a roasting pan full of bones and some veggies, broil until browned, and then put into a crock pot and let it go for a LONG time.  And, I would NEVER pay $8.40 for two bones.  They should sell for next to nothing in a good farmers' market.

Grassfed meat is about a lot more than Omega-3 fatty acids, even though that's certainly important.  The thing about whole foods is that we don't know enough about their biology to pick out the "important" nutrients, extract them, and assume that in doing so we have therefore captured the value of the whole food.

[BearBones]

Congratulations, Gumby! Your thread made it to the top of the list, the most posts per topic. Who would have guessed? Permanent portfolio, saturated fats, grass fed meat... What's the relationship?  Really makes me wonder if HB ate predominately grass fed beef.

[Pointedstick]

Congratulations, Gumby! Your thread made it to the top of the list, the most posts per topic. Who would have guessed? Permanent portfolio, saturated fats, grass fed meat... What's the relationship?  Really makes me wonder if HB ate predominately grass fed beef.

The thread binding these disparate subjects together is the desire for autonomy through control. Control over one's investments, control over one's diet, you name it. The point is to give us a greater ability to live our lives the way we want to.

[Gumby]

Ha, I will have to tell Shannon that her cookbooks were recommended on this forum!

Small world. Give her a copy of Craig and MT's book!

Congratulations, Gumby! Your thread made it to the top of the list, the most posts per topic. Who would have guessed? Permanent portfolio, saturated fats, grass fed meat... What's the relationship?  Really makes me wonder if HB ate predominately grass fed beef.

The thread binding these disparate subjects together is the desire for autonomy through control. Control over one's investments, control over one's diet, you name it. The point is to give us a greater ability to live our lives the way we want to.

Well said.

It's been quite a journey. Historical investigations, scientific reviews, and great cooking!

Pointed, now that you've literally chewed the fat on this subject, what are your thoughts about how corporations have convinced themselves, their employees, and the entire population into consuming a diet of rancid oils and sub-par ingredients?

I can see how the government has played a roll in enabling the corporate agenda (food pyramid, school lunches), but it seems like the corporate agenda was a very, very strong force in fostering the diet-heart hypothesis to serve its own interests (such as through the American Heart Association, major medical journals/institutions, etc.). It makes me wonder if the Standard American Diet (SAD) is just an inevitable product of a corporate world.

[Pointedstick]

It can get me pretty steamed, I'll tell you that! But as with most things in life, I think probably all the relevant actors are to blame, to a certain extent. Corporations introduced cheap new food-like products made out of inedible garbage. Governments blessed the health-destroying products and encouraged people to eat them. People were shortsighted and greedy, and ate them without bothering to ask what was inside or wonder why they were so much cheaper. It's sort of a trifecta.

So I ask myself, "what can I do about this?" I certainly don't have the power to directly change the government or the corporations. I can only vaguely and indirectly control them through voting, contacting my congressfolk about upcoming legislation, and participating in a market economy where I can choose to spend my food dollars on real food and not highly processed nutrient-injected colored sludge or repackaged industrial waste.

The biggest person I can affect is me. So what's who I focus on. And I hope that by living a purposeful and exemplary life, that others will want to follow my lead, like I have followed yours, Gumby. Already friends and family are starting to ask me for nutritional advice!

So let's keep on learning new ways to become better people and radiating the positivity that results from it and those around us will be drawn to us and our ideals like a beacon. We become the change we want to see and watch as the world around us reformulates itself as if by magic to copy us.

[Gumby]

Since I have dairy, soy, egg and rice intolerances,

MG, I wonder if you've also looked into bovine colostrum? Supposedly people with dairy intolerance can take it, and it's actually recommended in the GAPS FAQ. There seems to be some evidence that it can help close a leaky gut. All calves are born with a leaky gut and the first 8-hour bovine colostrum from the mother is purposefully designed to seal their leaky guts. It's expensive stuff, but people and some doctors seem to swear by it from what I can tell. Others say it doesn't help much. Any experience with it?

[Gumby]

So let's keep on learning new ways to become better people and radiating the positivity that results from it and those around us will be drawn to us and our ideals like a beacon. We become the change we want to see and watch as the world around us reformulates itself as if by magic to copy us.

Well said. I knew you'd have a good answer

[MachineGhost]

However, the "garbage in, garbage out" theory still holds true. Conventional meats are just too high in Omega-6, as we see in the analysis, above. And most Americans slather those grain-fed meats in fragile/oxidized polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats that have too much Omega-6 in them (as we see in the table, above) and then apply heat, which only makes those fragile fats oxidize even more.

FYI, despite the nice spectrum of fats found in pork and poultry, the big problem with pork and poultry is that 90% of the time they are fed grains and "bakery waste" — often making their fats very high in Omega-6. If you ever go to a conventional farm, you'll see that pigs are often fed old hamburger buns that barely cost anything. So, a pastured pig or pastured chicken can actually be quite expensive.

I can pretty much confirm that I have to trim all visible fat off conventional meat to such a degree because it is so highly inflammatory and pork fat seems to be more so than cow fat.  To further clarify this issue, last night I bought some grass fed, beef tallow which seems relatively pure of polyunsaturated fat or non-fat byproducts.  Good litmus test.  I'm still waiting and wondering where my fatty acid blood test results are.

Here's an interesting site for GliSODin data: http://www.superglisodin.com/

[align=center][/align]

And here's a short interview about a new "artery declogger" that appears to work by boosting SOD and glutathinone to protect LDL from oxidizing: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/health- ... berArtinia

40% seems a bit weak for boosting SOD compared to GliSODin though, but I can't find the studies showing how much SOD was boosted in GliSODin takers.  For those that aren't aware, beta glucan 1,3 was THE ingredient in oat bran that was responsible for the cholesterol-lowering effect and subsequently the ridiculous oat bran fad in the late 80's/early 90's that fizzled out.  Cheerios still exploits that meme to sell its cereal (though it takes at least 3 cups to start to have any effect).

BTW, the Cilantro Heavy Metal Detox formulas are still out of stock from two manufacturers.  Did everyone here pull a run on that item?  :-\

[MachineGhost]

MG, I wonder if you've also looked into bovine colostrum? Supposedly people with dairy intolerance can take it, and it's actually recommended in the GAPS FAQ. There seems to be some evidence that it can help close a leaky gut. All calves are born with a leaky gut and the first 8-hour bovine colostrum from the mother is purposefully designed to seal their leaky guts. It's expensive stuff, but people and some doctors seem to swear by it from what I can tell. Others say it doesn't help much. Any experience with it?

I was born pre-mature so I got interested in trying it for awhile, even super concentrated IGG versions from animal vet suppliers or overpriced, specialty MLM products made from innoculated eggs.  Didn't do anything (or nothing positive).

I think GAPS makes much more sense than practicing allopathy or "supplemental medicine" or "herbal medicine".  Strict avoidance ought to be necessary to completely reduce inflammation so healing can commence.  The difference between GAPS and a typical allergy elimination diet seems to be GAPS actually works to heal the gut whereas avoidance just tempers down the immune response temporarily but does not fix the root cause.

Still, the quant in me rather have some hard proof than do "what if" scenarios just in case.

Also, it looks like "Vital Glands" that I mentioned many pages ago has been resurrected in a superior form by a new manufacturer: http://www.drrons.com/organ-delight-tra ... erfood.htm

I think we've more than scared off and disgusted any vegan or vegetarians by now.  ;D  My balls are dropping through the floor at the idea of taking that supplement, but I'm sure I'll "man up" and eventually try it.  I wish there were some eye in it so I could literally see if it was working!