Best states to retire?

[WiseOne]

But I love driving my car!  Especially this time of year.  Saving is all well and good, but the money doesn't exist for its own sake, you know?  Putting the top down and wasting somebody at a stoplight is hard to beat.  :-)

A pleasure that Storm and I don't have, for which we don't have to pay $9,000 for a car.  Keeping a car here is absolutely ridiculous, but that just makes for a really easy decision.  

Storm, I go to those groceries too, they're amazing.  On the west side we also have Zabar's, which is sort of like Trader Joe's only better and cheaper.  It's not too difficult to be frugal in this city, although it's way too easy to go out with a few friends, have drinks & appetizers, and then wonder how you managed to drop $40.

[Bob]

No 1 for me is climate too. I do not want to sweat my rear end off most of the year. Ha. Second is geography. I need hills or mountains and quiet, pristine lakes, rivers or coast. So, Colorado and Washington are looking good. I love Portland, so I like the Oregon/Washington border that you mentioned MG. I also like my original Wyoming idea, but I suspect I would do better in the more "progressive culture" that you alluded to.

I live in the Socal desert. Two hours from the coast and two hours from the mountains (10k to 12k ft.) without all the Socal traffic.  Extremely hot in the summer but beautiful the rest of the year. I love the Portland area (brother in law lives there) but a little too cool and rainy. Wyoming is way too cold and windy. Jackson Hole is nice if you ski. Can't seem to find a place that meets my needs better than this. Also, the PP works just fine in this area.

Alan - do you live in the low desert or high desert?  I was stationed at the National Training Center at Ft. Irwin in the early 1990s and actually lived in Barstow for 16 months before moving on to the base.  My parents had a place in Palm Desert for 10 years from the mid 1970s to mid-1980s.  I have friends that live in Hemet.  I grew up in North Orange County so it was only 30 minutes to the beach and a little over an hour to the mountians.  Great place to live and go to high school back in the 1960s. 

I am retired and my wife, son and I currently live in the San Antonio area.  Biggest drawback is hot summers.  We're looking at a condo in the Tacoma, WA area where my wife is originally from, to "snow bird" to the Pacific NW during the summer.

[MachineGhost]

No 1 for me is climate too. I do not want to sweat my rear end off most of the year. Ha. Second is geography. I need hills or mountains and quiet, pristine lakes, rivers or coast. So, Colorado and Washington are looking good. I love Portland, so I like the Oregon/Washington border that you mentioned MG. I also like my original Wyoming idea, but I suspect I would do better in the more "progressive culture" that you alluded to.

When I last did the research, weather eliminated huge swathes of the USA because of extreme temperatures and adverse events.  Esentiallly, anything east of the Rocky Mountains is volatile and hazardous.  But the sprawling desert hell that best represents SoCal goes all the way as far as East Texas/Louisiana and as far north as Eastern Washington (no idea how far south it goes into Mexico).  Looking at geography, its only the small Pacific coastal strip starting around Ventura or San Luis Obisbopo, CA and running north before broadening out to fight that desert hell in CentCal/NorCal/OR/WA and on up to Canada that seems calm enough.  No Nor'Easterns, no -40 below, no humidity, no tornadoes, no hurricanes, no flooding, no extreme summers vs winters and if you don't settle around redneckish areas like Redding, CA where the winters are bone-chilling cold, the only real weather risk is the overdue big one from the Cascadia subduction zone,  i.e. don't live too close to the Pacific coast in WA/OR because of tsunamis.

[Alanw]

Bob,
I live in the Palm Desert area.  As I mentioned earlier, very hot in the summer but beautiful the rest of the year.  We have a huge influx of snowbirds from western Canada and the Pacific Northwest that visit and live here in the winter months.  It is so busy that we have a tough time getting into restaurants and making tee times in the winter months.  Almost makes the summers bearable.

[Storm]

Bob,
I live in the Palm Desert area.  As I mentioned earlier, very hot in the summer but beautiful the rest of the year.  We have a huge influx of snowbirds from western Canada and the Pacific Northwest that visit and live here in the winter months.  It is so busy that we have a tough time getting into restaurants and making tee times in the winter months.  Almost makes the summers bearable.

It's a beautiful area, but I'm afraid that global warming is going to make the climate too harsh here - eventually becoming more like Phoenix or another desolate desert.  This summer I spent some time out there and it was stark how hot and dry it was.  The entire place is like a tinder box waiting to go up with a single spark.  It didn't use to be this extreme in the summer.

[Alanw]

Storm,
We are actually a couple of degrees warmer than Phoenix on average, and yes it is hot and dry in the summer.  We have become aclimated to the point that anything below 80 degrees now feels cool.  Several trips to the coast or Colorado where I have a couple of grandkids help break up the summer.  I've yet to find anyplace that doesn't have its faults.  A lot of the year will have warm, balmy evenings that are hard to find elsewhere.  You should try visiting from October to May instead of in the summer.

[notsheigetz]

Not only that,  they might prefer that their children visit them once in a while while they're still alive. If you're in Wyoming...
Then again, it works for Mr Cheney.

Don't know what you mean by that dualstow. My parents live in Ohio. If they were in Wyoming I'd be much more excited about going to see them. Awesome state with Yellowstone and Grand Teton NP.

[Coffee]

Reno, Nevada.

Strong Libertarian culture, good gun laws, no state income tax, reasonably priced housing, good water and clean air, great outdoor activities like hiking, biking, horses, Gambling, Sparks Marina, Outlet shopping ... and you're a four hour drive to the San Francisco Bay Area, one hour flight to Vegas.  Reno has all four seasons, each pretty mild.

We see and hear ducks in the morning, and occasionally wild horses will wander into residential areas.  They're pretty cool when you see them!

Just stay away from the downtown area, as it's kinda depressing.  But most cities will have a rundown downtown area.  Crime isn't terrible. 

[Pointedstick]

Reno is a really nice place. Been there twice, and each time I really enjoyed it. If only there were some good high-tech jobs in the area... 

[l82start]

Reno is a really nice place. Been there twice, and each time I really enjoyed it. If only there were some good high-tech jobs in the area... 

how do you feel about breaking bad? i understand it is a central hub for the meth trade.. 

[Pointedstick]

Reno is a really nice place. Been there twice, and each time I really enjoyed it. If only there were some good high-tech jobs in the area... 

how do you feel about breaking bad? i understand it is a central hub for the meth trade.. 

Never watched any of it. In fact, I'd never even heard of it until someone started a thread about it here!

[l82start]

having seen the show it may not be a great idea... but i suppose it might qualify as a high tech job opportunity in Reno... 

[Coffee]

Reno is a really nice place. Been there twice, and each time I really enjoyed it. If only there were some good high-tech jobs in the area... 

how do you feel about breaking bad? i understand it is a central hub for the meth trade.. 

Didn't know that was in Reno?  I've never actually seen the show.  My understanding is that most of the meth trade is in Sun Valley, which is a community to the north.  Meth is a big problem for a lot of communities.

There is a lot of white trash in Reno.  But I can live anywhere I want, and the pro's of this area outweight the con's.  At least for me.  But then, I've got family in California, so I had to pick a place that was still relatively close.  Would have probably chosen Boise, but I don't like state income tax, and I think the weather is actually better here in Reno.

You hardcore Libertarian types would love it, here.  There is a very, very strong RP presence.

[l82start]

the show is in New Mexico, one of the real world meth hubs is in Reno or the Reno area. 
i haven't spent much time in Reno , we have a meth problems where i am here too, among other things, 
i would love to be looking for a new location but the timing isn't right, we have considered Reno as strong possibility for a next step when the time is right...

[Reub]

I like that town just about an hour away from Reno......Incline Village, Lake Tahoe. What a beautiful place!

[WildAboutHarry]

don't settle around redneckish areas like Redding, CA where the winters are bone-chilling cold

I think you mean the flesh-peeling summers:  average July temperature 100F, record July temperature 118F.  Winters are a balmy 55F (although there can be cold spells).

Reno is a nice town.  Gambling is drying up (losing business to California casinos) and the housing market really tanked (buying opportunities).  The Truckee River through town has been re-habbed, the formerly at-grade through downtown railroad tracks have been sunk, there is a large university, and the surrounding mountains are nice.  And no state income tax.

[MachineGhost]

the show is in New Mexico, one of the real world meth hubs is in Reno or the Reno area.  
i haven't spent much time in Reno we have a meth problem here where i am too, among other things,  :'(
i would love to be looking for a new location but the timing isn't right, we have considered Reno as strong possibility for a next step when the time is right...

The meth problem seems to be concentrated in the redneckish NorCal-Reno-Medford area which is largely white, impoverished and blue collar....  likely a legacy of the lumber industry collapsing (Reno has CA carpetbaggers).  I believe outlaw biker gangs were largely responsible for the initial distribution of meth in getting the area addicted, probably still are.  There's also a marijuana triangle in the same NorCal area.  It's all very sad and bleak, but then so is Detroit.  Nothing is being done to help these people and Obama would have been the one to really have the first hand experience.

The new show Vegas is potentially interesting for seeing what old Vegas looked and acted like back in the early 60's.

And of course, if you haven't seen Sons of Anarchy, you're missing a real treat.  It has such rabid fans it has managed to just start its fifth season.

[MachineGhost]

Apple is using Reno to avoid billions millions in taxes.

http://tinyurl.com/8mmsy4g

[KevinW]

This has been discussed extensively on the ERE forum, see e.g.

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wiki/ ... e=ERE_City
http://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com ... hp?id=1299

I think the "optimal" state depends heavily on one's own particular lifestyle and idiosyncrasies so there is no universal answer.

From a libertarian liberty/tax-minimization perspective, I would say New Hampshire or Wyoming are best. Florida, Tennessee, and most of Texas are almost as good. It really depends on your personal breakdown of exposure to income/sales/real estate tax. Utah is in good fiscal shape but is dominated politically by Mormons, which may or may not be a problem.

People with frugal or self-sufficient lifestyles make few taxable transactions, and wind up paying very little tax, even in spite of high tax rates. As some others pointed out, it's possible to live very cheaply in places like NYC and San Francisco if you're willing to make certain compromises.

Your personal climate preferences are a big factor. Would you rather deal with hurricanes or blizzards? Also, your preferred form of recreation. Do you want to be near outdoor activities, or night life, or the ocean, or professional sports teams, or what?

One of my schemes is to own a condo in a ski resort town in Canada, and another in a spring break city in the Southeast US. I'd rent them out on-season, and live in them off-season. E.g. Winter/Spring in Daytona Beach or South Padre Island or something, and Summer/Fall in Quebec. That way I get some rental income, and avoid the worst of the snow and hurricane seasons, and can maintain PPs in two different countries without attracting attention.

[KevinW]

This is a response to the property tax chart Pointedstick posted in another thread: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... 584#p45584
I think my response is more on-topic here.

The problem with cheap, rural areas is they're typically arid, not just redneckish.  It's bloody boring, unless you're such an old coot desert rat that swears off all human contact.  Even I wouldn't go that far and I'm not a fan of the human population and all their B.S. to begin with.

Yeah, if you live in one of the lightest-colored counties on that map, you will probably be in a freestanding home at least 3-5 miles from the nearest strip mall or anything resembling culture. Personally I'm willing to pay a higher tax rate to be in walking distance from cafes, restaurants, performance spaces, public transit connections, etc. If you're willing to live in a modest dwelling then the nominal tax bill in dollars is relatively small either way.

Also, the rural lifestyle is dependent on one or more reliable automobiles, which are expensive now and likely to get more expensive as time goes on. Investing in a real estate location that eliminates or reduces your need for transportation fuel protects you against inflation in energy prices.

I'm repeating myself a bit, but I think the ideal is being inside the city limits of a small city on a lower-tax state. Maybe something like Manchester NH, Nashville, Baton Rouge, Omaha, or Cheyenne.

[blackomen]

My parents are considering moving to Vancouver, WA for retirement (no income taxes).   But they will rent in Portland, OR for a month and buy a new car immediately (and not pay sales tax.)  It's supposedly listed as one of the best tax havens in the US.

One potential problem..  I'm not very familiar with real estate tax laws but I think if you sell a house you can defer the capital gains tax if you purchase a new house within 90 days.

Since they've had capital appreciation on their current home, wouldn't it make more sense to just buy a new house in Vancouver, WA right off the bat and save on the real estate taxes rather than save a few hundred measly dollars by "dodging" the sales tax by buying a car in Oregon?

[MachineGhost]

There is a $250K-$500K (married) capital gains exclusion when selling a primary house that you've lived in 3 out of any 5 years, but it has no relevance to real estate taxes which are assessed locally.  WA has relatively higher real estate taxes to offset the lack of sales tax.  All states income+real+sales tax burden approximates out to about 10% average overall in any combination.

The correct way to optimize tax avoidance is to live in WA by renting and do all shopping in OR.  Vancouver is a good spot since Costco, etc. is just across the river-border in OR on Interstate 5.