The Top 27%

[MachineGhost]

This one hits right in the gut...

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[Bean]

This one hits right in the gut...

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To make it "fair" everyone should pay income tax.  If you think otherwise, you are racist.

[Reub]

And if you aren't a racist at the very least you are a jingoist.

[blackomen]

Nope, I'm in the bottom 50% (but top 10% of my age group)

[MachineGhost]

ANOTHER economic mess looms on the horizon—one with a great wrinkled visage. The struggle to digest the swollen generation of ageing baby-boomers threatens to strangle economic growth. As the nature and scale of the problem become clear, a showdown between the generations may be inevitable.

http://www.economist.com/node/21563725? ... c30b6f1709

[MarySB]

Never fear.

Taxes on the RMDs of boomers should start to flood the coffers when they reach 75.5 years old beginning in 2016...

Couple that with a 55% death/estate tax, including tax on the surviving spouse, on estates valued at over one million...

I really wonder what the fuss is all about 

[AgAuMoney]

Never fear.

Taxes on the RMDs of boomers should start to flood the coffers when they reach 75.5 years old beginning in 2016...

Couple that with a 55% death/estate tax, including tax on the surviving spouse, on estates valued at over one million...

That's depressing. 

BTW, the RMD starts at 70.5 and you have until the next April (I think) to get it out but the 2nd one is due by December so you'd have two that year unless you get it out the year you cross instead of delaying.  Don't miss an RMD.  The penalty is 50% of the amount you didn't take, plus the taxes on what you did take (including the penalty amount if paying that came out of the IRA).

By encouraging the conversion to Roth IRAs, the gov't has accelerated tax payments from the future into the present.  What's that going to do to the future?  As if it wasn't bad enough we leave our kids with the huge national debt, we also harvested the taxes early that would have paid the interest on that debt.  Hmm.

[moda0306]

AgAu,

I have a bone to pick with that.  I get warm and fuzzy feelings inside when I think of strategizing out Roth conversions to avoid RMD's and higher tax rates.  I don't know why you have ruin the party for us who want to game the system .

[AgAuMoney]

I have a bone to pick with that.   I get warm and fuzzy feelings inside when I think of strategizing out Roth conversions to avoid RMD's and higher tax rates.  I don't know why you have ruin the party for us who want to game the system .

Sorry, did not mean to ruin the party! 

I just wonder what's going to happen when we all wake up with a hangover, to find the younger generation asking where the grocery money went and how come there are so many empty bottles in and around the hot tub.  I expect we'll be paying a consumption tax sometime in the next 20 years.

But for now, party on! 

[Pointedstick]

I sort of think something different will happen. I see Millenials embarking on lives of fundamentally more minimalism than the baby boomers. Whether it's deliberate, imposed by poverty, or out of an ill-defined desire to Fuck The System, a lot of my age-peers seem to live very different lives from the ones the boomers are living and in many cases urging them to adopt. My own parents fit this mold perfectly, and they're constantly urging me to travel more, stretch to purchase a bigger house than I need, buy more clothes and toys for my infant son, get a second car, and so on and so forth.

CNN recently profiled a bunch of independent voters and I found their profile of a Millenial to be right on the money.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/10/ ... nnial.html

[Reub]

PS you should always listen to your parents!

[MachineGhost]

CNN recently profiled a bunch of independent voters and I found their profile of a Millenial to be right on the money.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/10/ ... nnial.html

Spoiled and upper middle class?

[MarySB]

@AGM:

Yes, you are right re RMDs. I should proofread, better.

And, yes, pay tax now to avoid it later or later to avoid it now?
Decisions, decisions. 

I feel sorry for those who don't realize that they are courting disaster if they SPEND all their RMDs every year. Guess we boomers need to store up a lot of gold bullion in taxable accounts, as time goes on. No tax
on the appreciation until they are cashed out again, right? (At least until the govt decides differently). 

I don't think ALL the boomers live beyond their means. But, many did and still do. Husband and I are pretty tight with $. It's why we are where we are and can afford the nice house and travel at this point in our lives

[BearBones]

I sort of think something different will happen. I see Millenials embarking on lives of fundamentally more minimalism than the baby boomers. ...a lot of my age-peers seem to live very different lives from the ones the boomers are living and in many cases urging them to adopt...

Could be true, PS. But also may be biased by your age. Idealism tends to fade with time, unfortunately. I remember the values of my oldest siblings in the 60's-70's. Very close to the earth, minimalistic, green, and socially/politically active. Now they all live lives much closer to that of their parental generation: 2+ kids, 2 cars, suburban homes, and a decent carbon footprint (although still way < average).

I also don't see the kids around where I live going minimalistic. To the contrary, they have been raised in a disposable world. "What do you mean that I can't get a new phone, Dad? I have a free upgrade!" "Mom, when can we go shopping? No, I can't wear those! Hollister jeans are SOOO yesterday."

[MediumTex]

I sort of think something different will happen. I see Millenials embarking on lives of fundamentally more minimalism than the baby boomers. ...a lot of my age-peers seem to live very different lives from the ones the boomers are living and in many cases urging them to adopt...

Could be true, PS. But also may be biased by your age. Idealism tends to fade with time, unfortunately. I remember the values of my oldest siblings in the 60's-70's. Very close to the earth, minimalistic, green, and socially/politically active. Now they all live lives much closer to that of their parental generation: 2+ kids, 2 cars, suburban homes, and a decent carbon footprint (although still way < average).

I also don't see the kids around where I live going minimalistic. To the contrary, they have been raised in a disposable world. "What do you mean that I can't get a new phone, Dad? I have a free upgrade!" "Mom, when can we go shopping? No, I can't wear those! Hollister jeans are SOOO yesterday."

I think that many of these patterns of thought such as "minimalism" are actually just thinly disguised marketing narratives.

As I have grown older, many mental frameworks that I thought would always be with me have gradually been worn away by experience.  Many of the "missions" I thought I would always be on have gradually lost their meaning, until one day the message from headquarters simply reads: "There is no headquarters; there is no mission."

The path of clear thinking is constantly in danger of being obstructed and trivialized in countless ways.

Take exercise, for example, which is certainly a good thing for all of us.  Look at how exercise clothing, exercise facilities, and exercise gurus have turned the purity of the concept of exercise into a complicated mess of social standing, self-worth, and consumption.

[Gosso]

As I have grown older, many mental frameworks that I thought would always be with me have gradually been worn away by experience.  Many of the "missions" I thought I would always be on have gradually lost their meaning, until one day the message from headquarters simply reads: "There is no headquarters; there is no mission."

What about the "call to adventure"?  Or are you referring to the demands of society, rather than the demands of the psyche?

[MediumTex]

As I have grown older, many mental frameworks that I thought would always be with me have gradually been worn away by experience.  Many of the "missions" I thought I would always be on have gradually lost their meaning, until one day the message from headquarters simply reads: "There is no headquarters; there is no mission."

What about the "call to adventure"?  Or are you referring to the demands of society, rather than the demands of the psyche?

The call to adventure is a wonderful example.  The essence of this call will probably always be with me.  What sometimes happens along the way, though, is the "call to adventure" can gradually turn into the "call for more gear", the "call for expensive trips and luxury accommodations", the "call for changing the people who don't understand your vision of adventure", and the "call to change the nature of the society in which your adventure is unfolding."

I should have clarified that I meant there are certain "pure" impulses like joy, love, excitement and mystery that can find themselves weighed down with ideological and consumption-oriented baggage, and that is what I am suggesting should fall away as one moves through life (though it often doesn't).

The baggage begins to attach itself to the "pure" impulses at an early age when you see the lives people lead in commercials and you develop the subtle but persistent belief that the world depicted in the commercial actually exists somewhere and the only ticket to access that world is through the consumption of certain products and services (this is the central lie of advertising that people have a hard time completely resisting). 

Over time, a mind conditioned to view the world in this way can develop the tendency to view all meaningful experiences in terms of the consumption that is associated with them.  Even something presumably considered transcendent like religious beliefs can get tangled up with brand associations around certain religious organizations and religious leaders.  I think this has happened, for example, with the Dalai Lama in recent years.  He has become a brand, and you consume this brand by listening to him speak and buying his books.  Any truth that may be present in his message stands behind a large billboard advertising his appearances, pronouncements and publications.

[flyingpylon]

I think this has happened, for example, with the Dalai Lama in recent years.  He has become a brand, and you consume this brand by listening to him speak and buying his books.

Or (case in point)... following him on Twitter!  https://twitter.com/DalaiLama

[MediumTex]

I think this has happened, for example, with the Dalai Lama in recent years.  He has become a brand, and you consume this brand by listening to him speak and buying his books.

Or (case in point)... following him on Twitter!  https://twitter.com/DalaiLama

Love the Dalai Lama?  Let others know with this beautiful T-shirt:

[Gosso]

As I have grown older, many mental frameworks that I thought would always be with me have gradually been worn away by experience.  Many of the "missions" I thought I would always be on have gradually lost their meaning, until one day the message from headquarters simply reads: "There is no headquarters; there is no mission."

What about the "call to adventure"?  Or are you referring to the demands of society, rather than the demands of the psyche?

The call to adventure is a wonderful example.  The essence of this call will probably always be with me.  What sometimes happens along the way, though, is the "call to adventure" can gradually turn into the "call for more gear", the "call for expensive trips and luxury accommodations", the "call for changing the people who don't understand your vision of adventure", and the "call to change the nature of the society in which your adventure is unfolding."

I should have clarified that I meant there are certain "pure" impulses like joy, love, excitement and mystery that can find themselves weighed down with ideological and consumption-oriented baggage, and that is what I am suggesting should fall away as one moves through life (though it often doesn't).

The baggage begins to attach itself to the "pure" impulses at an early age when you see the lives people lead in commercials and you develop the subtle but persistent belief that the world depicted in the commercial actually exists somewhere and the only ticket to access that world is through the consumption of certain products and services (this is the central lie of advertising that people have a hard time completely resisting). 

Over time, a mind conditioned to view the world in this way can develop the tendency to view all meaningful experiences in terms of the consumption that is associated with them.  Even something presumably considered transcendent like religious beliefs can get tangled up with brand associations around certain religious organizations and religious leaders.  I think this has happened, for example, with the Dalai Lama in recent years.  He has become a brand, and you consume this brand by listening to him speak and buying his books.  Any truth that may be present in his message stands behind a large billboard advertising his appearances, pronouncements and publications.

Okay, that clears things up.  Reminds me of this quote from the Truman Show: "We accept the reality of the world with which we are presented." 

It's too bad the joys of the advertised world are so fleeting and frequently require a new stimulant to maintain the "high".  Although if one steps away from this then a large void can develop, leaving the person to ask "well, what do I do now?"  But at that point I think one can begin to trust their own instincts again, since they will no longer be hijacked -- kinda similar to what happens when one starts eating healthy...eventually the body begins to crave healthy foods which it needs.

I think this has happened, for example, with the Dalai Lama in recent years.  He has become a brand, and you consume this brand by listening to him speak and buying his books.

Or (case in point)... following him on Twitter!  https://twitter.com/DalaiLama

Haha...I already do!  The guru principle is interesting, since most of us need someone or something to set us on the right path.  The problem is that everyone has a different idea of what the "right path" is.  For example, Harry Browne has been a wonderful guru and teacher for many of us here, and has sent us down the PP investment path. 

I find myself bouncing from one guru to the next, attempting to absorb all the information I can, then move onto the next.  I think the main reason for this is that I get bored after awhile.

[MediumTex]

Dalai Lama tote bag:



boxer shorts:



hoody:



bumper sticker (used to promote your business):

[Lone Wolf]

As I have grown older, many mental frameworks that I thought would always be with me have gradually been worn away by experience.  Many of the "missions" I thought I would always be on have gradually lost their meaning, until one day the message from headquarters simply reads: "There is no headquarters; there is no mission."

The path of clear thinking is constantly in danger of being obstructed and trivialized in countless ways.

Incredibly well said.

What a pleasure it is to clear away the pile of irrelevant obligations, dogmas, and gewgaws that we allow to accumulate over the things that we truly love.

[MachineGhost]

Take exercise, for example, which is certainly a good thing for all of us.  Look at how exercise clothing, exercise facilities, and exercise gurus have turned the purity of the concept of exercise into a complicated mess of social standing, self-worth, and consumption.

Once again, it all started with this movie...

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