If you had $1 Million in the PP, can you live off of that?

[Pointedstick]

- Use cash to purchase a small house or a fixer-upper in an area with very low property taxes (< $150/mo). Live modestly and make improvements as necessary. This will allow you to live rent-free with extremely low property taxes and homeowners insurance bills. For even more hardcoreness, install solar panels to generate all your own electricity or even sell some back to the grid!

- Build a house out of earth that will last 1000 years for under $50,000, and avoid having to pay homeowner's insurance because it doesn't burn, can't rot, standing water makes the foundation stronger, and the walls are thick enough to shrug off the impact of a pickup trick going 50 mph (true). Since you built it yourself, you know how to repair anything that breaks. Since the rest of society thinks it's weird, it will be undervalued and leave you with extremely low property taxes, probably less than $100 a month. Have it generate its own electricity, collect its own rainwater, and recycle graywater into your garden. Congratulations, you now have no monthly bills except for property taxes and internet so you can keep posting to gyroscopicinvesting.com  You may even be able to grow most of your own food.

[MachineGhost]

- Build a house out of earth that will last 1000 years for under $50,000, and avoid having to pay homeowner's insurance because it doesn't burn, can't rot, standing water makes the foundation stronger, and the walls are thick enough to shrug off the impact of a pickup trick going 50 mph (true). Since you built it yourself, you know how to repair anything that breaks. Since the rest of society thinks it's weird, it will be undervalued and leave you with extremely low property taxes, probably less than $100 a month. Have it generate its own electricity, collect its own rainwater, and recycle graywater into your garden. Congratulations, you now have no monthly bills except for property taxes and internet so you can keep posting to gyroscopicinvesting.com  You may even be able to grow most of your own food.

Wow!  Will it also withstand global thermonuclear war?

[Pointedstick]

- Build a house out of earth that will last 1000 years for under $50,000, and avoid having to pay homeowner's insurance because it doesn't burn, can't rot, standing water makes the foundation stronger, and the walls are thick enough to shrug off the impact of a pickup trick going 50 mph (true). Since you built it yourself, you know how to repair anything that breaks. Since the rest of society thinks it's weird, it will be undervalued and leave you with extremely low property taxes, probably less than $100 a month. Have it generate its own electricity, collect its own rainwater, and recycle graywater into your garden. Congratulations, you now have no monthly bills except for property taxes and internet so you can keep posting to gyroscopicinvesting.com  You may even be able to grow most of your own food.

Wow!  Will it also withstand global thermonuclear war?

Build it partially or wholly underground and you bet it will. And to become EMP-proof, just embed grounded copper wires inside the thick earthen walls and turn your whole house into a huge faraday cage!

[AgAuMoney]

I guess once there's a wealth of individuals with $5m+ and 'not contributing a penny to the state', they'll devise some means to address that.

I suspect whatever taxes they do impose its more likely to be 'acceptably low' rather than full-on seizures. Small changes however can make a big difference between anticipated and actual targets for the individuals concerned.

Don't you have a VAT or some other form of consumption tax that would effectively tax the assets in those accounts if/once they are being used to fund living/lifestyle expenses?

In the U.S. most states and some localities have a sales tax, but the Federal level does not.  (There are a few tariffs and import duties, but such generate an insignificant portion of revenue now, especially compared to 100 years ago when they generated the entire thing.)

I just don't see any way we'll escape having some form of Federal consumption tax over the next 50+ years I expect to live.

[AgAuMoney]

To not draw-down the pot would have to have grown at inflation+3% to support a 3% inflation adjusted withdrawal rate.

And have done it with sufficient consistency (low volatility) that selling assets in down years didn't deplete your capital beyond its ability to recover.  Unfortunately way to easy to do for most people managing their own retirement.

[doodle]

Hey PS,

Is there a particular website that has some detailed instructions on how to build one of these rammed earth houses? I'm interested in doing something like that, unfortunately you'd probably have to be out in the boonies to build it. I can't imagine any neighborhood allowing a permit for a house like that to pass.

[Pointedstick]

Hey PS,

Is there a particular website that has some detailed instructions on how to build one of these rammed earth houses? I'm interested in doing something like that, unfortunately you'd probably have to be out in the boonies to build it. I can't imagine any neighborhood allowing a permit for a house like that to pass.

Here are a few links from my house-related bookmarks folder:

http://naturalbuildingblog.com/
http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/
http://www.earthbagbuilding.com/articles/stepbystep.htm
http://ghost32.hubpages.com/hub/How-To- ... gle-Handed
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to- ... bag-House/

This build log is incredible: https://picasaweb.google.com/118342277479911578528

This one too: http://earthbagbuilding.com/projects/casavergarar.htm

As for where you could build one freely: http://earthship.com/pockets-of-freedom

...Or how to get a permit to build one: http://naturalbuildingblog.com/permitte ... n-florida/

[MachineGhost]

Why do "alternative" or off-the-grid houses always have to look so cheesy, skanky or retro?  I'd be as embarassed to live in one of those as to drive a VW Beetle or a Mini Cooper or something similarly unmasculine.  What you live in or drive is a reflection of your beliefs or ignorance and I rather not give off the weird-kook-hippie vibe to society as opposed to blending in.

I've had my eye on these geo-solar homes for over a decade: http://enertia.com/

[Pointedstick]

The outward appearance is entirely up to the tastes, wealth, and craftsmanship of the builder. Many people build this way because they still want a high quality house but have very little money, so getting it up and running is the higher priority.

I too would prefer to live in a nice-looking house, but I would take an outwardly ugly yet cheaper house over the reverse any day of the week. I can always make the interior gorgeous, and even fix up the exterior. And besides, uglier == lower valuation == lower property taxes.

Still there are plenty of examples of beautiful earthen homes. Here are a few:


http://www.cobworks.com/photo-gallery/



https://www.facebook.com/EarthFriendlyHomes



http://www.earthbagbuilding.com/project ... rgarar.htm

The large house being constructed here also exhibits a high degree of craftsmanship: https://picasaweb.google.com/118342277479911578528

If you didn't feel any of those houses are manly enough, you could always add a tower and put a .50 on the top

Those Enertia homes look cool, especially since it appears they've found a clever way to use thick wood as a reasonable thermal mass. But I'd still prefer earth, personally. It doesn't burn, stops bullets, laughs at hurricanes and tornadoes, and the thermal mass factor will be much higher. You can also easily make curves and domes with it. To each his own, I suppose.

[MachineGhost]

Well if thats the best they've got, I'm still not impressed.  Look at the lack of symmetry on the roof in the first house!

Nonetheless, these would go over well in Central or South America or the Caribbean, because houses there already pretty much look like this.  But they're certainly not "Western" contemporary.

I love the tower, though!  Maybe I'll put that on the armpit property near Area 51.

[Pointedstick]

A lot of them actually are in Central and South America, which may explain the styling. If you want a more "western" example, here's one in Utah:


http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Ho ... ction.aspx

Probably still too funky for your tastes, I'd imagine.

[dualstow]

I rather like those homes. I'm not a hippie but definitely kooky enough.

What do you drive, MG? A hemi cuda from the 70s?

[Greg]

A lot of them actually are in Central and South America, which may explain the styling. If you want a more "western" example, here's one in Utah:


http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Ho ... ction.aspx

Probably still too funky for your tastes, I'd imagine.

When I first saw this picture, I thought the house was frowning. Look at the two eyes and the frowny mouth on it. Probably sad because people make fun of it. (I kinda like the earthy idea though)

[dualstow]

When I first saw this picture, I thought the house was frowning. Look at the two eyes and the frowny mouth on it. Probably sad because people make fun of it. (I kinda like the earthy idea though)

Hah. It does kind of have a grouper mouth.

[Pointedstick]

I am totally going to live in a house like that someday. Not sure if it'll have the frowny-face windows though. Should be able to totally do away with monthly mortgage/rent, electricity, water, sewer, heating, cooling, and insurance costs.

Not sure how manly that is, but I guess it could leave more money left over in the budget for ammunition.

[sophie]

Love that house!  One day....

Earthbag building looks like a great idea, but mainly for arid climates.  I'm not sure how such a house would hold up over many years in areas that get over 40 inches of rain a year, including periods of wet weather for days at a time.

The "unertia" buildings look better suited to areas like the Northeast.  My brother is an architect who routinely uses passive solar and geothermal designs.  The vacation home he designed & built for my parents, for example, doesn't have geothermal but it uses less than half the fuel oil of equivalent sized homes in the area because of the passive solar design.  The oil delivery guys keep complaining about that :-).  There are lots of little efficiencies in it too, which makes you realize that an architect-designed home can give you more comfort in a much smaller (and therefore cheaper) space than you can get with a builder design.

[BearBones]

I'd be as embarassed to live in one of those as to drive a VW Beetle or a Mini Cooper or something similarly unmasculine.  What you live in or drive is a reflection of your beliefs or ignorance and I rather not give off the weird-kook-hippie vibe to society as opposed to blending in.

Off subject:
If truly secure in who you are, including your masculinity in this case, you do not care about appearance, right? But I know what you mean. I drove a VW Passat wagon for 4 years, and I felt like a grandmother. Then my wife left me for another man (doubt correlated), and I felt like a eunuch. Both experiences were good for me, in retrospect. Much more secure now. I'm even ok with admitting that I spend a lot of time on a weird online forum with a bunch of gun-loving, saturated-fat eating, gold-hoarding, outside-the-box libertarians. So think about getting a Beetle and living in a mud house!

[doodle]

I met a guy once with one of those little cutie dogs that chicks love. His friends were giving him a hard time because he had such a wimpy dog. He made some pretty good points. First, the dog is the dog and he is himself. Conflating you and your stuff is absurd. Its like those pricks who drive the big muscle cars cause they think it makes them look tough. Again, your car might be cool, but you are still a dork. Second, he said his cutie dog attracted tons of women...not something that happens to most guys walking a pitbull on a chain.

[doodle]

Aesthetics are a manufactured feeling. Why else would styles come and go so quickly? Presently the types of houses that we are living in are all form, with little function. My teutonic heritage craves for a return to design with a purpose. Properly manufactured, a house should need little to no heating or cooling to maintain a comfortable temperature and require next to no maintenance. In contrast, the average american house is built with little consideration of the local climate, solar orientation, or long term maintenance and upkeep.

Survival guy, cody lundin built a pretty cool house I think as well. Its basically an upside down swimming pool covered in dirt and grass

http://www.codylundin.com/codys_house.html

[BearBones]

Now back to the important question of how to spend almost no money so that we can live on our hypothetical $1m PP portfolios. 

I recommend:...
- possibly, arguably, potentially, being willing to sacrifice years 89 to 93 in order to free up years 33 to 45, etc.
- living somewhere modest...

Good post. I think that these are 2 very important considerations worth thinking through well in advance (perhaps for all of us).
If you plan on doing the retirement home, assisted living, nursing facility, then ICU path to heaven, then the ERE idea should be seriously reconsidered, IMO. Ditto for retirement on 1M.
Even if off the grid and growing your own food, property taxes are still an uncontrollable variable. Certainly choosing a modest dwelling is the best way to control it. A second way, if possible, is choosing a good location. That was the purpose of my "best places to retire" thread. Seems that this variable would be a lot less precarious in states and municipalities that are not severely burdened by debt.

[Pointedstick]

Now back to the important question of how to spend almost no money so that we can live on our hypothetical $1m PP portfolios. 

I recommend:...
- possibly, arguably, potentially, being willing to sacrifice years 89 to 93 in order to free up years 33 to 45, etc.
- living somewhere modest...

Good post. I think that these are 2 very important considerations worth thinking through well in advance (perhaps for all of us).
If you plan on doing the retirement home, assisted living, nursing facility, then ICU path to heaven, then the ERE idea should be seriously reconsidered, IMO. Ditto for retirement on 1M.

I watched my grandmother wilt and wither in one of those horrible death houses, all the while having every last cent she saved vacuumed up by their money machine. I would gladly give up five of those years for 10 or 15 more rewarding ones in coming decades.

I also don't forget that the reason why she was there to begin with instead of at home with us was because she was a horrible old witch who tormented my father. Those chickens came home to roost, hard. By contrast, my parents and my wife's parents are wonderful people and if any of them ever need round-the-clock care, my wife and I absolutely intend to take care of them to the extent that we can.

I feel like avoiding nursing homes is something that can absolutely be done. But if you've mistreated your children, they may want to send you away where they don't have to look at you anymore. That's a recipe for your final years to be full of humiliation and impoverishment.

Of course, this requires having children.

Even if off the grid and growing your own food, property taxes are still an uncontrollable variable. Certainly choosing a modest dwelling is the best way to control it. A second way, if possible, is choosing a good location. That was the purpose of my "best places to retire" thread. Seems that this variable would be a lot less precarious in states and municipalities that are not severely burdened by debt.

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/state-tax-ra ... mpare.html

Looks like avoiding liberal states in general, and urban areas specifically are very impactful ways to reduce your retirement tax burden.

[Greg]

I am totally going to live in a house like that someday. Not sure if it'll have the frowny-face windows though. Should be able to totally do away with monthly mortgage/rent, electricity, water, sewer, heating, cooling, and insurance costs.

Not sure how manly that is, but I guess it could leave more money left over in the budget for ammunition.

Not sure whether it is possible or not but would property value assessors only evaluate what they can see? For instance, if you had a small house but you had a GIANT basement that you created but the door to get to that basement was concealed, would they be able to add it to the assessment then for higher property taxes?

[sophie]

If you plan on doing the retirement home, assisted living, nursing facility, then ICU path to heaven, then the ERE idea should be seriously reconsidered, IMO.

Five stars to this quote!  Although, nothing against assisted living.  There are lots of "unofficial" ways to accomplish it:  live somewhere walkable, have lots of friendly and helpful neighbors, family living nearby, low maintenance living e.g. in apartment, judicious use of hired help, Medicare-funded visiting nurse services.  For example, I know of several elderly people who don't have family around, but they babysit for neighbors (low cost child care) in return for pay or help with errands.  There was also a great study that I remember reading about - elderly people living in a nursing home were assigned to take care of developmentally delayed children who were also institutionalized.  Both groups benefitted tremendously.

[sophie]

Looks like avoiding liberal states in general, and urban areas specifically are very impactful ways to reduce your retirement tax burden.

Maybe.  Don't forget that homes tend to be larger and more luxurious in urban areas and the blue states in general, so property tax paid will be higher even if rates are equal.  Also depending on the location, you may get your money's worth in the form of city services (e.g. a usable public transportation system).

[BearBones]

...Don't forget that homes tend to be larger and more luxurious in urban areas and the blue states in general, so property tax paid will be higher even if rates are equal.  Also depending on the location, you may get your money's worth in the form of city services (e.g. a usable public transportation system).

Ah, good point. I was about to give up on my Washington state side of Portland dream and move out in the sticks!