Cristina Kirchner is Dumb as !@#$

[MachineGhost]

Two years ago, President Kirchner seized private pension accounts. Now she is going to lend $4.4 billion of this money, at a rate of one-tenth the [25%] inflation rate, to new home buyers. A lottery will decide who gets the loans – not capacity to repay.

I guess a vain whore will do anything out of desparation, no matter who it harms.  Her political popularity is now down to 30%.  It won't be long now before the next crisis.  Argentineans have given up using real estate as their bank and are illegaly sending their money out of the country however they can.

[MediumTex]

MG,

I appreciate your outrage, but can we tone down the "vain whore" stuff?

She's just doing what all clueless statists through history have done.

[MachineGhost]

MG,

I appreciate your outrage, but can we tone down the "vain whore" stuff?

She's just doing what all clueless statists through history have done.

So we just label everything evil down to ignorance?  Isn't that like "I was just following orders"?  I can't accept that.  That is how ruling elites avoid prosecution because any tiny figment of doubt is enough to drive a wedge through.  Like Wall Street.

I think the terms I used are mutually exclusive.  It's no secret in Argentina that she is incredibly vain and that that along with her political populist actions suggests she is totally sucking up.  I just don't buy that she is a clueless statist.  She knows exactly what she is trying to do and she better be held responsible after the SHTF. 

[Pointedstick]

She's just doing what all clueless statists through history have done.

Ain't it the truth.

"Uh-oh, our previous market intervention didn't work... quick, we have to come up with an even stronger, more severe one! Wait, what do you mean businesses are taking their money out of the country? Those ungrateful jerks! Implement capital controls at once! What!?! Now people are emigrating in huge numbers? Better close the ports and build walls around the border cities! We can't let people allow their fear to take them elsewhere when we're just about to turn the corner! *gasp* some people are shooting the border police? We need to crack down on these terrorists hard. Search their families' houses and haul out the collaborators! Nobody gets out of here alive!"

[MediumTex]

MG,

I appreciate your outrage, but can we tone down the "vain whore" stuff?

She's just doing what all clueless statists through history have done.

So we just label everything evil down to ignorance?  Isn't that like "I was just following orders"?  I can't accept that.  That is how ruling elites avoid prosecution because any tiny figment of doubt is enough to drive a wedge through.  Like Wall Street.

I think the terms I used are mutually exclusive.  It's no secret in Argentina that she is incredibly vain and that that along with her political populist actions suggests she is totally sucking up.  I just don't buy that she is a clueless statist.  She knows exactly what she is trying to do and she better be held responsible after the SHTF. 

Was she elected?

Is there something that we in the U.S. need to do at this time?  I don't like getting upset about things that I can't do anything about.

[Lone Wolf]

Argentineans have given up using real estate as their bank and are illegaly sending their money out of the country however they can.

Uh oh.  I wasn't aware that Argentina had these kinds of capital controls in place now.  Do you know how far these go?

What an ugly situation.

Is there something that we in the U.S. need to do at this time?

I can think of only one thing -- remember stories like this any time we get the notion that government and/or politicians can solve our problems for us. 

[MachineGhost]

Uh oh.  I wasn't aware that Argentina had these kinds of capital controls in place now.  Do you know how far these go?

What an ugly situation.

Yep, she put it in place restrictions right after winning her second term.  All currency transactions have to be discretionarily authorized by their version of the IRS, i.e. a ban of all USD transactions.  Since the Argentine Peso is being made worthless by the central bank running the printing press full force, no one wants to be paid in or hold pesos.

You also cannot travel now without first getting permission from a bureaucrat and proving where you got the money from legally to afford the trip.  There's also dollar-sniffing dogs used at the Uruguay border where the middle and upper class go to park their USD in safety deposit boxes or to buy property.

Argentineans do not trust their banking system for good reason and used real estate instead, but now that is deemed illegal too.  Capital flight is now in full force.  Hyperinflation is next if history is any guide.

Kirchner makes me sick and shes likely (mod:please do not use vulgar language) insane from her thyroid cancer or treatment thereof.  If the US government stole all of our IRA accounts or seized private pensions or devalued the dollar vs some other currency peg, I just have to believe there would be tar and feather march upon DC.

[craigr]

Re:stealing assets

Problem is if the majority of the population believes the thefts are going to benefit them then any kind of revolt is unlikely. The stolen retirement funds represent a small portion of the population. Class warfare politics will make them look like the bad guys for saving too much.

[notsheigetz]

If the US government stole all of our IRA accounts or seized private pensions or devalued the dollar vs some other currency peg, I just have to believe there would be tar and feather march upon DC.

You didn't build that IRA account or work for that private pension. Somebody else made that happen.

(Not that I believe that, I'm just pointing out that the same mindset is at work here in the U.S.A.)

[doodle]

Notsheigetz,

That quote from Obama was taken out of context.....kind of like Romney's " I like to fire people" has been misused. The position of Obama is similar to that of Elizabeth Warren which in her own words is:

"You built a factory out there? Good for you," she says. "But I want to be clear: You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did."

As for the tax implications, Warren said, "Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

[craigr]

Notsheigetz,

That quote from Obama was taken out of context.....kind of like Romney's " I like to fire people" has been misused. The position of Obama is similar to that of Elizabeth Warren which in her own words is:

"You built a factory out there? Good for you," she says. "But I want to be clear: You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did."

As for the tax implications, Warren said, "Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

It was not taken out of context. I listened to the entire thing. His position is, in essence, that government came first and businesses followed only after. But the reality is the exact opposite. Those government roads were built with machinery from Caterpillar, architects from private sector, defended by weapons built by industry. The government has no resources without the private sector, but the private sector could do quite nicely with a much smaller government. Obama's mindset is the same as a flea arguing that they make the dog possible.

[doodle]

Symbiosis....I keep coming back to that term. So important to understand this fundamental truth about how the universe functions.

[MediumTex]

Symbiosis....I keep coming back to that term. So important to understand this fundamental truth about how the universe functions.

And when it gets out of balance all parties suffer.

If too many fleas get on the dog or a sick flea bites the dog the dog may die and then the fleas will die shortly thereafter if they can't find a new dog.

A dog can only support so many fleas.

[notsheigetz]

It was not taken out of context. I listened to the entire thing.

I listened to the whole thing too and also the Elizabeth Warren speech that I believe Obama found very inspiring and was trying to emulate.

I think they make it very clear what they believe to those who are listening.

[Pointedstick]

Here's the whole thing, including context: http://youtu.be/192oEC5TX_Q

This speech was just the big O throwing some red meat to the slice of his base that's hurting financially and distrusts businesspeople. The quote is every bit as bad as it sounds and doesn't really get any better with context IMHO, but it's also a tailored message. It's not what he says when he courts Wall St. financiers, that's for sure.

[notsheigetz]

Here's the whole thing, including context: http://youtu.be/192oEC5TX_Q

This speech was just the big O throwing some red meat to the slice of his base that's hurting financially and distrusts businesspeople. The quote is every bit as bad as it sounds and doesn't really get any better with context IMHO, but it's also a tailored message. It's not what he says when he courts Wall St. financiers, that's for sure.

Obama has always struck me as a committed ideological leftist - I'll forego the labels of marxist and socialist as those terms are no more enlightening than calling a conservative a fascist. But I do think his left leaning instincts go far beyond what most of us have known in our lifetimes as simply "liberal". And I think there is a lot of method to his madness - "free" birth control for women at the expense of everybody, children up to age 25 can stay on their parent's insurance, support for illegal immigration - there is a common theme to all of it and I'm almost ready to predict it will get him re-elected.

[doodle]

MT,

I agree balance is the key....

One thing that I get a little frustrated with is the notion that private capitalism is the only system capable of generating productive, socially beneficial goods and services. The reality i think is that public/ private partnerships working together in a symbiotic fashion drive innovation forward at a faster pace than if private companies alone were relied on to make investments in the future. Innovative research requires risky investments that private companies might not undertake on their own dime and it also requires sometimes a coordinated effort between many scientific organizations that rely on public funding for their existence. There is a definite supportive and participatory role for government to play in a successful society.

[Pointedstick]

MT,

I agree balance is the key....

One thing that I get a little frustrated with is the notion that private capitalism is the only system capable of generating productive, socially beneficial goods and services. The reality i think is that public/ private partnerships working together in a symbiotic fashion drive innovation forward at a faster pace than if private companies alone were relied on to make investments in the future. Innovative research requires risky investments that private companies might not undertake on their own dime and it also requires sometimes a coordinated effort between many scientific organizations that rely on public funding for their existence. There is a definite supportive and participatory role for government to play in a successful society.

In an idealized sort of way, I agree with you, and I think many would. The problem is that in the real world, governments destroy far more often than they create, even advanced democratic ones. I would love to live under a benevolent, wealth-stewarding, private-sector-nurturing, even-handed-justice-administering government, but I can't see any.

Furthermore, I am doubtful that any such entity could ever exist so long as it retains its territorial monopoly of ultimate decision-making and powers of taxation--i.e. so long as it remains a government. Every so often I wonder what it would be like if we could choose our governments the way we choose any other products. There would be no territoriality at all; you could just say, "well, I'm tired of Texas, time to make Mongolia my government!" And you could cancel your citizenship with Texas and purchase or contract for citizenship with Mongolia without having to move there.

[escafandro]

Yep, she put it in place restrictions right after winning her second term.  All currency transactions have to be discretionarily authorized by their version of the IRS, i.e. a ban of all USD transactions. 

...and prohibition of buying dollars/gold to common people (which in Argentina means prohibiting savings) My theory, artificially forcing the consumption to not fall more in GDP growth.
I'm an Argentine who lives in Uruguay, and I have an income in Argentina, the only way I had found was  spend that income on Uruguay with debit card and that expense is deducted in Argentina at the official USD/Peso exchange rate (the dollar black is 35% more expensive). Kirchner solution to discourage this: 15% surcharge on any purchase as prepayment concept of Income Tax. Thanks

You also cannot travel now without first getting permission from a bureaucrat and proving where you got the money from legally to afford the trip. 

... is permission to buy foreing currency only. And you can do this only one time a year. If if you want to travel twice outside the country, good luck...

There's also dollar-sniffing dogs used at the Uruguay border where the middle and upper class go to park their USD in safety deposit boxes or to buy property.

I see this dogs only one time in several crosses that I did. Apparently not enough dogs to control all border in addition to control the sale of "illegal" dollars given in the streets of any major city.

Argentineans do not trust their banking system for good reason and used real estate instead, but now that is deemed illegal too. 

Is not illegal, but since you can not buy dollars and the sell of properties is in dollars...
They want to force the purchase and sale in pesos, but nobody really knows what price give to properties. So sellers don´t sell and buyers don´t buy.

Kirchner makes me sick and shes likely insane from her thyroid cancer or treatment thereof.

You will not believe this I assure you.
But finally she had no thyroid cancer, it was a mistake in the analysis that made (according to the clinic the only "false positive" in their history). Mistake they realized in full operating room, however they removed the thyroid without explaining exactly why.

If the US government stole all of our IRA accounts or seized private pensions or devalued the dollar vs some other currency peg, I just have to believe there would be tar and feather march upon DC.

There is a popular mobilization in the streets on 09/13. But the government did not going to care for sure.

[Pointedstick]

Wow, what a mess. I hope your country manages to throw off these tragically avoidable chains.

You will not believe this I assure you.
But finally she had no thyroid cancer, it was a mistake in the analysis that made (according to the clinic the only "false positive" in their history). Mistake they realized in full operating room, however they removed the thyroid without explaining exactly why.

I wonder if that might help to explain it! My father had his thyroid gland removed many years ago and suffered terrible mood swings until the doctors could figure out an appropriate dosage for his supplements. One day he'd sleep for 18 hours, the next he'd be irritable and awake at 3 AM. Perhaps Kirchner is suffering from something similar?

There is a popular mobilization in the streets on 09/13. But the government did not going to care for sure.

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that they're not going to care until you bring rifles.

[Ad Orientem]

As Argentina's economy slows, President Cristina Fernandez's popularity dips

Argentine leader's image falls as inflation soars

[stone]

Pointed Stick:

I would love to live under a benevolent, wealth-stewarding, private-sector-nurturing, even-handed-justice-administering government, but I can't see any.

I'm not a fan of statism in principle. In principle I'd like an economy where purchasing choices by everyone largely directed things. BUT as far as I can see there ARE some countries with just such a benevolent statist set up. Look at Scandinavia or Singapore. However much we may dislike statism out of principle it has to be handed to them that those countries produce the lowest child mortality rates, lowest crime rates, longest life expectancy etc etc.

It has to be said though that California has been the fountain of technological advance for humanity in recent decades.

Government can be parasitic. Banks also can be parasitic. How is having 25% of an economy being a parasitic financial sector that produces nothing and only acts to distort the economy into serving finance anything but nuts?

[Pointedstick]

Pointed Stick:

I would love to live under a benevolent, wealth-stewarding, private-sector-nurturing, even-handed-justice-administering government, but I can't see any.

I'm not a fan of statism in principle. In principle I'd like an economy where purchasing choices by everyone largely directed things. BUT as far as I can see there ARE some countries with just such a benevolent statist set up. Look at Scandinavia or Singapore. However much we may dislike statism out of principle it has to be handed to them that those countries produce the lowest child mortality rates, lowest crime rates, longest life expectancy etc etc.

I'll hand it to Singapore, they've managed to create a pretty amazingly prosperous country. But its statism has also produced a country that's profoundly unfree in many other ways. Drug possession and gun ownership are punishable by imprisonment or death. Homosexuality is outlawed. Public gatherings of more than a few people require notifying the state and acquiring permits, etc.

It has to be said though that California has been the fountain of technological advance for humanity in recent decades.

I live in California, and what I see is that the government is constantly trying to strangle and destroy the private sector, not nourish it. Every tech success is despite the government, not because of it. See this post of mine from several months ago: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... 123#p33123

Government can be parasitic. Banks also can be parasitic. How is having 25% of an economy being a parasitic financial sector that produces nothing and only acts to distort the economy into serving finance anything but nuts?

It's completely nuts! It's also entirely due to the government's own actions in creating a monetary system with banks as key players and its actions to prevent any consequences from befalling bad financial actors. A zombie financial system is entirely a failure of statism, not a shining example of where it could succeed if only it were used correctly.

[MachineGhost]

I'm not a fan of statism in principle. In principle I'd like an economy where purchasing choices by everyone largely directed things. BUT as far as I can see there ARE some countries with just such a benevolent statist set up. Look at Scandinavia or Singapore. However much we may dislike statism out of principle it has to be handed to them that those countries produce the lowest child mortality rates, lowest crime rates, longest life expectancy etc etc.

I don't know about Singapore, but the Scandinavian countries have relatively high suicide rates.  As the human brain is optimized to complain about and solve problems, happiness seems to be boring.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/25/w ... ide-rates/

[gizmo_rat]

I don't know about Singapore, but the Scandinavian countries have relatively high suicide rates.  .

Pretty sure that's a meme MG.
Skandi rates are similar to the US, Singapore is lower, UK is much lower, I think the statists are off the hook for that one.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/preven ... _rates/en/

You can't help look at that table and wonder why mens reported suicide rate is 3 or 4 times higher than womens.