Lucid Dreaming

[Gosso]

I wonder if this has something to do with the "anima" of the male unconscious, that Carl Jung wrote about.  Essentially it is the female part of the male unconscious.  For females the "animus" is the male part of their unconscious.

It might just be your guardian angel.  Not sure if I believe in those or not, but there's no saying that a parallel version of you or an aspect of your higher self couldn't manifest as such.  Have you tried communicating with the prescence?

MG

Oh man, we're going deep into crazy land!   But really if you think about how insane dreams are, then this experience isn't completely "out there".

No, I have never communicated with it -- if I begin thinking too much then the experience resets or completely disappears.  It is hard to explain what it is, and it's possible my mind is simply giving this thing human qualities.  It is likely a result of the relaxation process, which triggers the eyes to see blurry movement across the closed eye lids (might just be blood flow?).  I could understand how someone might misconstrue this experience as being abducted by aliens, since there can be a lot of "blurry" movement, and the feeling of many different presences in the room.

It could also be a mild natural DMT trip?  I believe there is the theory out there that natural DMT might play a large role in dreaming.

All that I know is that it's a fun experience and I feel great afterwards.

[dualstow]

Wow, I never thought about any connection between sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming before! As I mentioned, I've enjoyed lucid dreaming for years. Now, I'll add that I used to suffer from sleep paralysis all the time, though this was not experienced at the same time as those pleasant lucid dreams. It scared the hell out of me when I was much younger.

Though I don't believe in alien abductions, demons or witches, at times it felt like each one of these, because for me it was accompanied by a vivid nightmare.

I learned to breath rapidly-- the one thing I could do while paralyzed, which would cue my girlfriend or wife -- this has gone on for decades -- to shake me. After being shaken, I would usually regain the ability to move. Failing that, I would focus on wiggling one toe, and eventually I'd slip out of those strange mental chains. Scary stuff.

[Tortoise]

I only remember having one lucid dream years ago when I was a child. And I remember I woke up shortly after realizing I was in full control of my thoughts and actions while still dreaming.

For several years, between the ages of about 21 and 25, I had vivid (and initially very frightening) hypnagogic hallucinations shortly after falling asleep. It happened all the time, sometimes as often as two or three times a week, then ceased abruptly one day. What would usually happen is that I'd be drifting off to sleep, and for some reason I would open my eyes. When I did, I would see a very large, black spider with long legs (about the size of my fist) slowly descending from the ceiling directly above my head, approaching my face. Terrified, I would jump out of bed and turn on the light. And it would always be gone. This happened dozens of times over that four-year period.

On occasion, I've also awoken shortly after falling asleep to find hundreds of tiny, greenish glowing little ant-like things crawling all over my pillow right in front of my face. Strangely, that one never frightens me at all. I just kind of marvel at the clarity of the hallucination for a while, thinking to myself, "This is even more vivid than a mushroom trip!" Then, after maybe 30 seconds or a minute, the things fade away into nothingness. And I immediately fall back asleep.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if endogenous DMT were found to play a role in vivid hyponagogic hallucinations like these.

[EDIT: I should point out that I didn't try mushrooms for the first time until I was 25, after I had ceased having my hypnagogic hallucinations.]

[Gosso]

Tortoise & dualstow,

Wow! That is some freaky stuff! I cannot say I have ever experienced anything like that.  The worst I have had is waking up with an arm that was fallen asleep..it always freaks me out since there is no feeling at all in the arm.

***

Well, I had a lucid dream last night!  At first I started making out with a hottie, but then I decided I should try flying, I got a little off the ground, but then I seemed to lose my "happy thought" and began waking up.  I then tried the spinning technique, but this only created a massive vortex that transported me back to my bed.  Still, it was pretty awesome!

I wonder how much the dream journal played a role in this, since this is something I have only recently started doing.

[l82start]

Wow, I never thought about any connection between sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming before! As I mentioned, I've enjoyed lucid dreaming for years. Now, I'll add that I used to suffer from sleep paralysis all the time, though this was not experienced at the same time as those pleasant lucid dreams. It scared the hell out of me when I was much younger.

Though I don't believe in alien abductions, demons or witches, at times it felt like each one of these, because for me it was accompanied by a vivid nightmare.

I learned to breath rapidly-- the one thing I could do while paralyzed, which would cue my girlfriend or wife -- this has gone on for decades -- to shake me. After being shaken, I would usually regain the ability to move. Failing that, I would focus on wiggling one toe, and eventually I'd slip out of those strange mental chains. Scary stuff.

i have a theory that sleep paralysis and lucid dreams are different outcomes of the same state, in waking reality we control our body's with our will* you will something to happen and the signals travel through the nervous system and the muscles react, in a lucid dream you control events with your intent* you intend your dream body to move or fly and it happens, i suspect sleep paralysis is a brain mix up, you are dreaming but you are trying to move your dream body with the same mechanism (will) you use for waking reality and it doesn't work hence the paralysis.

* not sure the words "will" and "intent" are strictly the correct words or usage of the words, but its the best i can do, hopefully you get what i mean even if the usage is a bit off or nontraditional...

[Lone Wolf]

Wow, lots of very entertaining stuff in here!  Thanks for sharing these stories.  The brain is so fascinating and so complex.  And since it's the only vehicle through which we perceive reality, its quirks become very much a part of how we experience reality.

Well, I had a lucid dream last night!  At first I started making out with a hottie, but then I decided I should try flying, I got a little off the ground, but then I seemed to lose my "happy thought" and began waking up.  I then tried the spinning technique, but this only created a massive vortex that transported me back to my bed.  Still, it was pretty awesome!

I wonder how much the dream journal played a role in this, since this is something I have only recently started doing.

Congratulations!  It's amusing that you wound up just screwing yourself over in a different way with the spinning technique.  When talking recently to a buddy of mine that had regularly had lucid dreams he advised trying a more "laid back" approach to stay with the experience at first and see where things take you.

I don't know, man.  The urge to grab the wheel is just irresistible.  Oh man!

As for me, I've made no additional progress since tearing apart my kitchen.  Sleep hasn't been the best lately, though, so hope springs eternal!

[Gosso]

Well, I had a lucid dream last night!  At first I started making out with a hottie, but then I decided I should try flying, I got a little off the ground, but then I seemed to lose my "happy thought" and began waking up.  I then tried the spinning technique, but this only created a massive vortex that transported me back to my bed.  Still, it was pretty awesome!

I wonder how much the dream journal played a role in this, since this is something I have only recently started doing.

Congratulations!  It's amusing that you wound up just screwing yourself over in a different way with the spinning technique.  When talking recently to a buddy of mine that had regularly had lucid dreams he advised trying a more "laid back" approach to stay with the experience at first and see where things take you.

I don't know, man.  The urge to grab the wheel is just irresistible.  Oh man!

As for me, I've made no additional progress since tearing apart my kitchen.  Sleep hasn't been the best lately, though, so hope springs eternal!

The spinning technique was a complete failure, at least for me it was.  If it happens again I will try to simply maintain a sense of calm.  I'm assuming this will become easier with more experience, and can possibly be enhanced through meditation/yoga during waking life.

I have been travelling a lot lately so I haven't experienced anymore lucid dreams (or even good quality dreams).  I kinda want to see if it happens again, and that the last one wasn't a random fluke.

[dualstow]

Congrats on your first lucid dream, Gosso. 
I saw 'Inception' in the theatre but I'll have to rent it now for the special features.

[lazyboy]

I've had lucid dream experiences two times that I remember. Both experiences were after someone I know was dying or had died. In both cases the individual being appeared to me as very luminous and were radiating great presence. Subjectively, at the time, it "felt" more real to me than any ordinary waking contact. I surmised that I was experiencing their spirit bodies.

There are spiritual teachings that say that what we are actually experiencing in our waking state is a dream like appearance, not really dissimilar to the dream state when we sleep. From this perspective, all phenomena we experience is actually appearance and emptiness inseparable. In a dream, when you wake up, whether it was a good or bad one, there is no lasting solid substance that you know to be real. Dreams tend to dissolves away when you get on with your day. In the same way, our experiences in waking life, although seemingly solid, are considered to be empty phenomena that tend to dissolves away from awareness. Freedom is when one "wakes up" and is liberated from the dream like appearances of life. From the perspective of someone who is liberated, living in the dream of life, there is the choice to create the best dream possible; one that supports the liberation of other beings from their suffering.
There are practices such as dream yoga that support a developing sense of freedom or liberation through "lucid" dreaming.
 
I'm currently reading: DREAM YOGA and the Practice of Natural Light.
http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Yoga-Practi ... 1559390077
(I must admit that I tend to fall asleep while reading it. And that might be a good thing.)
"In Dream Yoga and the Practice of Natural Light, Chögyal Namkhai Norbu gives instructions for developing clarity within the sleep and dream states. He goes beyond the practices of lucid dreaming that have been popularized in the West by presenting methods for guiding dream states that are part of a broader system for enhancing self-awareness called Dzogchen. In this tradition, the development of lucidity in the dream state is understood in the context of generating greater awareness for the ultimate purpose of attaining liberation."

 

[Lone Wolf]

I wonder how much the dream journal played a role in this, since this is something I have only recently started doing.

Hey Gosso, how quickly did you find your dream journal ramping up in quality and level of detail?  I've had mine going for about 5 nights but I'm still stuck on getting nothing more than weaksauce bits and pieces of dreams.  It's all:

"Was dressed like Dieter from 'Sprockets'"
"Accidentally ate dog poop"

Beyond these little "bullet points" I find that my recall is quite poor right now.  I wind up waking up with nothing more than themes and very vague images.

Guess this is why I really ought to be doing this whole dream journal thing in the first place. 

[Gosso]

I wonder how much the dream journal played a role in this, since this is something I have only recently started doing.

Hey Gosso, how quickly did you find your dream journal ramping up in quality and level of detail?  I've had mine going for about 5 nights but I'm still stuck on getting nothing more than weaksauce bits and pieces of dreams.  It's all:

"Was dressed like Dieter from 'Sprockets'"
"Accidentally ate dog poop"

Beyond these little "bullet points" I find that my recall is quite poor right now.  I wind up waking up with nothing more than themes and very vague images.

Guess this is why I really ought to be doing this whole dream journal thing in the first place. 

Well I have been writing the dream journal off and on for about two months.  I still occasionally have nights were I don't remember anything (maybe once a week), and then other nights where I'll fill two pages with details.  Usually I remember at least two or three different dreams a night, which will take half a page to record.  I'm not sure what causes the nights of strong/clear dreaming.  I should record what I did in the evenings when a robust dream occurs.  I'm guessing that less TV/computer and more fiction books would help stoke the imagination.  Or possibly sitting quietly and/or listening to music.

I read somewhere that it helps to read old dreams before going to bed, since this will remind the unconscious that these "events" need to be recorded.

I haven't gone into the realm of dream interpretation (Carl Jung style), since it feels like tarot card reading, but at least I'll have a good inventory if I decide to venture down that path.

[Lone Wolf]

Here's a question for you lucid dreamers out there: do you have specific "reality check" rituals that you perform during the day?  I had an interesting experience with one of mine.

For the uninitiated, a "reality check" is a habit that you form in your waking life that when performed in a dream should tip you off that you are dreaming.  The idea is that if you form this habit while awake, you are much more likely to attempt it in the dream state and kick yourself into lucidity. 

Another handy thing about reality checks is that when you wake up, you can perform one of these checks to make sure that you're not still asleep.  The "dream within a dream" phenomenon called "false awakening" is a very common experience (common enough to play a central role in the structure of Inception.)  I experienced my first and only lucid dream during what I believe was a false awakening.

The reality checks that I chose were counting my fingers and consciously reading text in my environment.  The trouble, though, is that in the dreams that I had last night I legitimately read text twice (once on a street sign and once on a business card.)  I'd thought that reading text in dreams wasn't supposed to be possible, but guess I was wrong!  On the plus side, my dream journal has improved greatly and I'm frequently getting 1-2 pages of material in a night.

Anyone have any reality check recommendations or experiences to share?

[Gumby]

Reminds of a scene from the recently cancelled TV show, Awake. In one scene, when he's not sure if he's dreaming or not, his shrink prints out a copy of the Constitution from her computer and asks him to read one of the amendments. Then she asked him if he had memorized the Constitution, he said, 'No.' To which she replied, "then you must not be dreaming."

Of course, the whole show was about figuring out if he was dreaming or not.

[Lone Wolf]

Reminds of a scene from the recently cancelled TV show, Awake. In one scene, when he's not sure if he's dreaming or not, his shrink prints out a copy of the Constitution from her computer and asks him to read one of the amendments. Then she asked him if he had memorized the Constitution, he said, 'No.' To which she replied, "then you must not be dreaming."

Of course, the whole show was about figuring out if he was dreaming or not.

Ah yes, great show!  With the announcement of its cancellation, I fear we may be left having to guess what the answer to all of these questions is. 

If you want to doom a serial drama to cancellation, all you need to do is have me watch it and become interested in it.  (Meanwhile, "Real Housewives of I-Couldn't-Care-Less" rolls on!)

[dualstow]

Here's a question for you lucid dreamers out there: do you have specific "reality check" rituals that you perform during the day?

Reminds of a scene from the recently cancelled TV show, Awake.

I never saw 'Awake', but the Constitution scene you described somehow reminded me of the Total Recall scene in which the doctor tries to convince Schwarzenegger's character that he is hallucinating and that he should swallow a pill to get out of it. He changes his mind when he sees the doctor, whom he's holding at gunpoint, sweat. If you don't know what I'm talking about, start typing
total recall swallow it
into youtube.

The short answer to the question is no, I don't.
I think I mentioned on a previous page that Stephen LaBerge recommended asking oneself, "Am I awake?" but I never bothered to do that. I'm more likely to suddenly realizing that flying is not a normal part of my life, and then I try as hard as I can not to wake up so that I can enjoy.

[lazyboy]

I love flying dreams. Whenever I've come out of one I feel blissfully convinced for awhile that what I've tapped into is how it really is and that the limitations I experience in the real world are only a temporary illusion. My theory about this type of experience is that I'm getting a glimpse of my eternal spirit body. 

[MachineGhost]

The reality checks that I chose were counting my fingers and consciously reading text in my environment.  The trouble, though, is that in the dreams that I had last night I legitimately read text twice (once on a street sign and once on a business card.)  I'd thought that reading text in dreams wasn't supposed to be possible, but guess I was wrong!  On the plus side, my dream journal has improved greatly and I'm frequently getting 1-2 pages of material in a night.

I've had dreams where I've had full blown, online text chats and could read every word, although I feel the referrents were conveyed emotionally rather than egotistically-in-the-brain.

[MachineGhost]

Reminds of a scene from the recently cancelled TV show, Awake. In one scene, when he's not sure if he's dreaming or not, his shrink prints out a copy of the Constitution from her computer and asks him to read one of the amendments. Then she asked him if he had memorized the Constitution, he said, 'No.' To which she replied, "then you must not be dreaming."

Of course, the whole show was about figuring out if he was dreaming or not.

That could have been a good show if they didn't wrap it around the tired old crime-police-detective-overdramatized-legal-law-investigative-judge-in-black-robe-with-a-jury cornucopia.  You'd think the Armageddon was already here.  What is WRONG with society!

I gave Touch a chance, and its actually quite interesting and probably somehwat novel, but I find it too slow and boring to take space from my regular shows.

[Gumby]

I saw the Awake finale last night and kind of enjoyed the final minutes. They went with the Inception of having themes of dreams within a dream and distant music and changing/absent totems (reality test objects) to signal those migrations. It was pretty well done for a TV show, and the ending was interesting (dream within a dream that might all be within another dream).

Is it possible to lucid dream years of consciousness Inception-style in a single night? Sounds pretty crazy.

[Lone Wolf]

I think I mentioned on a previous page that Stephen LaBerge recommended asking oneself, "Am I awake?" but I never bothered to do that. I'm more likely to suddenly realizing that flying is not a normal part of my life, and then I try as hard as I can not to wake up so that I can enjoy.

That's about as straightforward as you can get.  Sounds good.  Not as exciting as trying to walk through a door or shove your finger through your hand, but whatever works. 

I've had dreams where I've had full blown, online text chats and could read every word, although I feel the referrents were conveyed emotionally rather than egotistically-in-the-brain.

Yeah, it's easy to fool yourself in the dream world.  I wondered if I'd just "known" what these bits of text said rather than actually "read" them.  But my recall of the font, color, and placement of the letters was quite specific.  "North Carolina" in white letters on the street sign.  "Sno" in small, black letters on an off-white business card.

Note that this was "Sno" not "Snow", so the gentleman with the card did not treat me to the early 90s rap hit "Informer".  If this had been a lucid dream, you can bet that I would have changed this person into "Snow" and had him rap for me.

I saw the Awake finale last night and kind of enjoyed the final minutes. They went with the Inception of having themes of dreams within a dream and distant music and changing/absent totems (reality test objects) to signal those migrations. It was pretty well done for a TV show, and the ending was interesting (dream within a dream that might all be within another dream).

Is it possible to lucid dream years of consciousness Inception-style in a single night? Sounds pretty crazy.

I'm glad to hear that the finale was good.  I hate when they don't get the chance to at least attempt a wrap-up.

As for years of consciousness in a dream state, I've run across a good number of self-reported experiences just like what you describe.  Things like two weeks in a 30-minute nap.  2 to 3 months in a night.  One guy even claimed to have experienced something like 100 years of time in a night of sleep.    (It's difficult to confirm any of this experimentally of course!)

They did do some tests of how long basic activities take in an LD state.  The dreamer would do the prescribed activities and signal completion via eye movement.  It generally came "pretty close" to real time.  Here's a little bit more info: http://daniel.erlacher.de/index.php/Tim ... cid_dreams  This would seem to indicate that by default, a lucid dream moves "sort of" in real time.

My uneducated take is that the dreamer controls how quickly time seems to pass and can probably influence this a great deal, intentionally or unintentionally.  Once the internal universe of the brain takes over from the external universe of reality, it simply isn't clear what's possible.  Crazy stuff.

[moda0306]

I had an extremely lucid dream last night and literally remembered this conversation as I was figuring out, "Hey, this is a dream, and I can control it, just like those guys said at PP."

I proceeded to have LW walk in the door and admit that I was right about everything, political & economic...

JK.  I just messed with the world around me.  It was cool.

[Lone Wolf]

I had an extremely lucid dream last night and literally remembered this conversation as I was figuring out, "Hey, this is a dream, and I can control it, just like those guys said at PP."

I proceeded to have LW walk in the door and admit that I was right about everything, political & economic...

JK.  I just messed with the world around me.  It was cool.

Well look at you!  Congratulations.  Since unlike me you have not yammered on about lucid dreaming for pages over the last several weeks, are you sure that you deserved to have a lucid dream? 

So anything interesting happen?  Did you manage to keep it stabilized for a long period of time before waking up?

[moda0306]

It ended pretty quick... something caused the whole thing to collapse on me. 

[Gumby]

It ended pretty quick... something caused the whole thing to collapse on me.  

Reminds me of another dream scene.. this time from Somewhere in Time, with Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymore. While at an old grand hotel, a strange old woman approaches Christopher Reeve and begs him to come back to her. Later in the movie he purposefully enters a lucid dream-like state to travel back in time — to 1912 — to be with his true love. Before entering the dream, he dresses up in a 20th Century vintage suit, puts vintage money in his pocket, combs his hair in a turn of the century style, and goes to sleep in this suit in a specific hotel room in the old grand hotel, but accidentally leaves a 1979 penny in his pocket. In his dream, he pulls out the penny, and seeing the penny rips him out of the dream state and brings him back to the present. But, after seemingly spending many days in this dream-state, he is weak and dies — reunited with his love in the afterlife.

Nothing like a shiny 1979 penny to kill your 1912 dream...

http://youtu.be/wSfcpJb_J38

[Gosso]

Has anyone tried the "Lucid Dreaming Mask"?  It is supposed to flash red LED lights when you hit REM sleep, which causes you to see red in your dream and alerts you to the fact you are dreaming.  Here is a video on it (4:14):

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bit ... aming-mask

It costs $100...