You Know PP Isn't Overbought When...

[moda0306]

... neither my 401(k) plan, nor my ING IRA fund choices offer a Long-term Treasuries fund, or a commodity index or gold fund of any sort.  It's slightly infuriating, as LT bonds tend to throw out a lot of annoyingly high taxable income, and if your 401(k) plan (which has the highest allowed contributions by far when compared to an IRA) doesn't even have it, then you are forced to keep a lot of it in taxable accounts.  These intermediate bond funds and corporate bond funds just don't react the way 20-30 year-to-maturity treasuries do.

I work at an accounting firm, and our affiliated financial management company handles our fund choices, as well as those for countless wealthy individuals.  Shows you how little respect the PP gets even from people who spend their days analyzing this stuff.

It's disappointing, but if this is commonplace, and I am sure it is, that means there's plenty of legs left in the PP... its components are still too awkward for the average investor, and the method to the madness will forever be seen by us few.

Cheers.

[moda0306]

Yes, when you change jobs you get some flexibility, but there's no excuse that the most educated professionals in this field are completely ignorant of how these pieces move in the market, or at least not bringing that value to the consumers of their product.

It'd be like a doctor offering me two procedure options for my broken leg... amputation or assisted suicide.

[foglifter]

... neither my 401(k) plan, nor my ING IRA fund choices offer a Long-term Treasuries fund, or a commodity index or gold fund of any sort. 

Wait a sec, if you have an IRA account you should be able to buy pretty much anything, including ETFs. There is TLT or EDV for Treasuries and a good chunk of ETFs and CEFs for gold. Most 401(k) accounts stink in terms of investment choices, but I've never heard about IRAs with such restrictions...

[moda0306]

I was speaking about my ING IRA specifically.  They have various funds with in 8 different mutual fund brokers, but not 1 Long-Term Treasury fund nor any kind of precious metal index or anything.  Right now it's not a problem.

It's just an indication of how little interest there still is in precious metals & LT treasuries

[foglifter]

I was speaking about my ING IRA specifically.  They have various funds with in 8 different mutual fund brokers, but not 1 Long-Term Treasury fund nor any kind of precious metal index or anything.  Right now it's not a problem.

It's just an indication of how little interest there still is in precious metals & LT treasuries

Then what keeps you from moving your IRA into a brokerage with wider investment options, like Vanguard or Fidelity?

[moda0306]

Nothing... this isn't a complaint so much as it's an indication of what investments most people care about.

That said, I can contribute much more every year to my 401(k) plan than to any IRA option, so it'd be especially nice if they offered something along those lines.

[foglifter]

Nothing... this isn't a complaint so much as it's an indication of what investments most people care about.

I think it's not that investors are not interested in gold and LTTs, although it's safe to say there are very few of us. It's the brokerage companies that pay much more attention to what makes them money. They want you to trade, not to invest for long term.

That said, I can contribute much more every year to my 401(k) plan than to any IRA option, so it'd be especially nice if they offered something along those lines.

I feel and share your pain. My 401(k) is being transferred as we speak from Fidelity to Administaff, from a plan with 2 index fund options to a plan with 1(!) index fund.  The only consolation is the new plan offers PIMCO Total Return fund, so I can invest into FUSEX (stocks) and PTRAX (bonds). Of course I have some EDV in my IRA to imitate a true LTT fund by mixing it with PTRAX. 

[moda0306]

Agreed... way too many financial advisors bend the portfolios to what makes them money, not what's best for their clients.

[doug6zj9]

Good point Moda

My 401K offers exactly 1 suitable choice, the Vanguard S&P500 index fund.  My wifes 401K offers exactly 0 suitable choices.  Many offer a "stable" income fund.  In many cases this is not really an acceptable (in the true Harry Browne meaning) substitute for the short term treasury portion of a PP.  In my case it consists of GIC's, which are nothing but IOU's from insurance companies (who are invested in corporate bonds and MBS from Fannie & Freddie!) 

[moda0306]

Doug,

Yeah it's ridiculous.  As long as these plans have one emerging markets fund and one stable value fund people think they're getting the full risk spectrum.

I will say, I really have no problem with a non-index stock fund.... it seems to me that if stocks are doing well, any reasonable stock fund will do pretty well +/-, even if managed (American Funds are pretty great).  If they're tanking, that's why I have the rest of my portfolio.

I DO have a problem with not having a LT treasury fund and Gold or at least a precious metals basket... you think they'd be popping up left and right after the meltdown but no dice.