Ross Ulbricht pardoned

[I Shrugged]

I know someone here recently posted their desire to see Ross Ulbricht pardoned. It has happened.

[boglerdude]

https://www.wired.com/2016/02/corrupt-s ... ee-the-us/

Well, its good to see Libertarians having influence

[glennds]

What exactly is the Libertarian argument for why he was wrongly convicted and deserved to be pardoned?

[yankees60]

What exactly is the Libertarian argument for why he was wrongly convicted and deserved to be pardoned?

Thanks for that. I had also been wondering about the answer to that question.

[dualstow]

I know someone here recently posted their desire to see Ross Ulbricht pardoned. It has happened.

Probably warrants a thread, but yeah, Xan mentioned it previously — viewtopic.php?p=256008#p256008

I think he served his time with regard to running a site where one can procure illicit substances.
It’s the hired murders that I find hard to get over.
Still, I’m happy for the guy!

[yankees60]

I know someone here recently posted their desire to see Ross Ulbricht pardoned. It has happened.

Probably warrants a thread, but yeah, Xan mentioned it previously — viewtopic.php?p=256008#p256008

I think he served his time with regard to running a site where one can procure illicit substances.
It’s the hired murders that I find hard to get over.
Still, I’m happy for the guy!

"It’s the hired murders that I find hard to get over.
Still, I’m happy for the guy!"

Can you explain those paradoxical statements?

Happy for any serial killers aside from Dexter?

[dualstow]

The murders didn’t actually happen, Vin, from what I read. He was tricked by undercover Feds.
But he believed they did.

I’m happy for him that he’s been released. I can only imagine what all those years of incarceration have on the psyche.
My old roommate has just been sentenced. You may have read about it in Rolling Stone or the NYT. He’s got a long road ahead.

[yankees60]

The murders didn’t actually happen, Vin, from what I read. He was tricked by undercover Feds.
But he believed they did.

I’m happy for him that he’s been released. I can only imagine what all those years of incarceration have on the psyche.
My old roommate has just been sentenced. You may have read about it in Rolling Stone or the NYT. He’s got a long road ahead.

This is the deepest now that I've gone into this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Ulbricht

"Federal prosecutors alleged that Ulbricht had paid $730,000 in murder-for-hire deals targeting at least five people,[31] because they purportedly threatened to reveal the Silk Road enterprise.[37][38] Prosecutors believe no contracted killing actually occurred.[31] Ulbricht was not charged in his trial in New York federal court with murder for hire,[31][39] but evidence was introduced at trial supporting the allegations.[31][40] The district court found by a preponderance of the evidence that Ulbricht probably commissioned the murders.[41] The possibility that Ulbricht had commissioned murders was considered by the judge in sentencing Ulbricht to life and was a factor in the Second Circuit's decision to uphold the sentence.[40] Ulbricht was separately indicted in federal court in Maryland on a single murder-for-hire charge, alleging that he contracted to kill one of his employees (a former Silk Road moderator).[42] Prosecutors moved to drop this indictment after his New York conviction and sentence became final.[43][44]"


Read few Rolling Stone articles and not that many New York Times articles to know who your former roommate is.

[I Shrugged]

I’m not defending the guy, but is it ethical for a judge to use unproven charges to justify a harsher sentence? If he could have been found guilty on those charges, why didn’t they try him on them?

[I Shrugged]

What exactly is the Libertarian argument for why he was wrongly convicted and deserved to be pardoned?

It’s a good question. I imagine it comes down to how pure is a person’s libertarianism. A pure libertarian would see Silk Road as doing things that should not be illegal to begin with.

[dualstow]

I remember thinking about him during the Gail Gale Boetticher episodes in Breaking Bad.
(Walt’s superlab lab partner when Jesse was persona non grata)
https://breakingbad.fandom.com/wiki/Gale_Boetticher

[yankees60]

I remember thinking about him during the Gail Gale Boetticher episodes in Breaking Bad.
(Walt’s superlab lab partner when Jesse was persona non grata)
https://breakingbad.fandom.com/wiki/Gale_Boetticher

I have vague memories of that character. Did he end up getting killed by the owner of the restaurant with who wore glasses?

[I Shrugged]

Back to Ulbricht, he was sentenced to double life in prison plus 40 years with no possibility of parole.

That is a little bit excessive. His main crime was that he ran an underground website which allowed anonymous users to buy and sell whatever they pleased, paying with Bitcoin. Of course there were ancillary charges, and I don't know the backstory on the attempted but uncharged murders for hire.

Nevertheless, I don't like it when someone is singled out and made an example of. "We need to destroy you so that everyone else will fear our wrath, and never again attempt to do what you did."

I'm on the side of, Trump did the right thing. Same goes for the Jan 6 people under the same general idea. They were dealt with too harshly, and what normally passes for justice was swept aside in order to make examples of them. The feds threatened to utterly destroy them unless they pled guilty and accepted harsh sentences. Which is just another day in the federal justice system, unfortunately. If they want to destroy you, they will. Trump is about the only person I can think of who fought such an attempt and survived mostly intact. So far.

[dualstow]

Nevertheless, I don't like it when someone is singled out and made an example of.

Agree.

[yankees60]

Back to Ulbricht, he was sentenced to double life in prison plus 40 years with no possibility of parole.

That is a little bit excessive. His main crime was that he ran an underground website which allowed anonymous users to buy and sell whatever they pleased, paying with Bitcoin. Of course there were ancillary charges, and I don't know the backstory on the attempted but uncharged murders for hire.

Nevertheless, I don't like it when someone is singled out and made an example of. "We need to destroy you so that everyone else will fear our wrath, and never again attempt to do what you did."

I'm on the side of, Trump did the right thing. Same goes for the Jan 6 people under the same general idea. They were dealt with too harshly, and what normally passes for justice was swept aside in order to make examples of them. The feds threatened to utterly destroy them unless they pled guilty and accepted harsh sentences. Which is just another day in the federal justice system, unfortunately. If they want to destroy you, they will. Trump is about the only person I can think of who fought such an attempt and survived mostly intact. So far.

As a way of determining the depth the consistency of your beliefs regarding the blanket pardoning of 1,500 criminals ......

1) If in one room there were assembled all the capital police officers and their family members --- you'd express this opinion to all of them?

2) If you, your father, your brother, your sister, your mother, your best friend, a close relative had been among those capital police who'd been injured ... you'd hold to that opinion?

[dualstow]

If I may nitpick, it’s Capitol Police
With an O

[yankees60]

If I may nitpick, it’s Capitol Police
With an O

I accept the correction. I went back and forth in my mind with the correct spelling (same way as I oftentimes do with Capital One).

Many times I look up the correct spellings of words that I am unsure of their spelling. In this case I obviously did not.

Hopefully, you bringing this to my attention will embed in my brain the correct spelling of Capitol (in this case) for the rest of my life.

Always welcome any factual corrections.

[I Shrugged]

Here is a great example of why I come down on the side of pardoning the J6 people. I realize there are some bad actors in the group, but the way the whole thing was handled by the Feds tells me that Trump did the right thing in pardoning them. I also realize we are only hearing this woman's side of the story, but it's pretty credible. She basically was a J6 "tourist", was charged with a major felony, and I won't spoil the ending. I imagine that anyone who entered the capitol got the same treatment as a minimum. 15 minutes and worth it if you would like to have an informed opinion either way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcdSVbq9vTU

[Smith1776]

Some bitcoin addresses from the Silk Road era "woke up" as soon as Ross Ulbricht went home.

Obviously that's not conclusive proof they belong to Ross, but it does underscore an important point: even when given a life sentence in prison you can still maintain possession of your bitcoin!

[glennds]

Here is a great example of why I come down on the side of pardoning the J6 people. I realize there are some bad actors in the group, but the way the whole thing was handled by the Feds tells me that Trump did the right thing in pardoning them. I also realize we are only hearing this woman's side of the story, but it's pretty credible. She basically was a J6 "tourist", was charged with a major felony, and I won't spoil the ending. I imagine that anyone who entered the capitol got the same treatment as a minimum. 15 minutes and worth it if you would like to have an informed opinion either way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcdSVbq9vTU

If we believe the prosecutions were mishandled by Biden's DOJ, but we still believe in rule of law as a cornerstone of society.....
then why not re-open all the cases and re-prosecute them the "right" way?

That way the bad actors are held accountable, and the innocent tourists are adjudicated fairly.

[yankees60]

Here is a great example of why I come down on the side of pardoning the J6 people. I realize there are some bad actors in the group, but the way the whole thing was handled by the Feds tells me that Trump did the right thing in pardoning them. I also realize we are only hearing this woman's side of the story, but it's pretty credible. She basically was a J6 "tourist", was charged with a major felony, and I won't spoil the ending. I imagine that anyone who entered the capitol got the same treatment as a minimum. 15 minutes and worth it if you would like to have an informed opinion either way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcdSVbq9vTU

Just finished watching it and have it on again while I compose this.

You stated: "Here is a great example of why I come down on the side of pardoning the J6 people. I realize there are some bad actors in the group, but the way the whole thing was handled by the Feds tells me that Trump did the right thing in pardoning them."

For Trump this was not an either / or situation, wherein his only choices were to either pardon all of them or none of them. If he truly believed that any of them were unfairly treated then he could have pardoned those. That would have been the intelligent way to handle it. However, making intelligent decisions generally requires some hard work. I'd characterize the decision Trump made as a lazy one. The easiest decision to make requiring no work on his part.

You are correct this is her side of the story. As a lawyer / doctor who is eloquent she well presented her case.

In the next post I'll provide what I found about her and January 6th.

[yankees60]

What are the details of Dr. Simone Gold and January 6th?


Dr. Simone Gold, a prominent anti-vaccine activist and founder of America's Frontline Doctors, was involved in the events of January 6th, 2021 at the U.S. Capitol. Here are the key details:

## Lead-up to January 6th

On January 5th, 2021, Gold spoke at a rally in Washington D.C., where she:

- Opposed COVID-19 vaccines
- Claimed COVID-19 was non-fatal
- Made unfounded claims about the vaccines
- Told supporters not to be "coerced" into taking the "experimental biological agent deceptively named a vaccine"[6]

## Actions on January 6th

On January 6th, 2021:

- Gold was scheduled to speak at a "Rally for Health Freedom" but it was cancelled[6]
- She joined the crowd and illegally entered the Capitol building along with John Strand, the Communications Director for America's Frontline Doctors[6]
- Video footage showed Gold "in the middle of a crowd attempting to push past law enforcement officials to get inside"[6]
- She gave a speech in the Capitol rotunda, spending approximately 20 minutes inside the building[6]

## Arrest and Legal Consequences

Following the events:

- Gold was identified in FBI wanted images circulated on social media[6]
- She was arrested at her home in Beverly Hills, California on January 18th, 2021 on five charges including entering a restricted building and disorderly conduct[6]
- In February 2022, Gold pleaded guilty to knowingly and unlawfully "entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds"[6]
- She was sentenced to 60 days in prison and fined $9,500[6]
- Gold served her sentence at a federal prison in Miami and was released on September 9, 2022[6]

## Gold's Statements

After the events, Gold made several statements:

- She admitted entering the Capitol building but claimed she did not know it was illegal and did not witness any violence[6]
- Gold expressed regret for being there, concerned it would detract from her work with America's Frontline Doctors[6]
- In an April 2021 interview, she claimed "20 FBI agents" came to arrest her and that she had been placed on the No Fly List[6]

Despite her guilty plea, upon her release, Congressman Louie Gohmert gifted her a flag that flew over the U.S. Capitol and falsely called her "a political prisoner"[6].

Citations:
[1] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/provid ... 1851341895
[2] https://www.linkedin.com/in/simone-gold-md-jd-4636a87
[3] https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/5 ... 0685878774
[4] https://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-simone-gol ... d=85445732
[5] https://www.courthousenews.com/anti-vac ... itol-riot/
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Gold
[7] https://www.wusf.org/health-news-florid ... in-florida
[8] https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj.o1533
[9] https://www.healthgrades.com/physician/ ... gold-2wsfq
[10] https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/ ... t%20al.pdf
[11] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98vOV1QBQEY
[12] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcdSVbq9vTU
[13] https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/c ... y-29-2020/
[14] https://hamariweb.com/profiles/simone-gold_1327
[15] https://www.instagram.com/cnnpolitics/p ... poQ/?hl=en
[16] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... al-license
[17] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna33938
[18] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... sentenced/
[19] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/04/worl ... -riot.html
[20] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna18535
[21] https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus- ... 94aebabbe3
[22] https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/16/politics ... index.html

---
Answer from Perplexity: pplx.ai/share


What was Dr. Simone Gold's role on January 6th


Dr. Simone Gold's role on January 6th, 2021, was that of a participant in the events at the U.S. Capitol. Here are the key details of her involvement:

## Entry into the Capitol

Dr. Gold illegally entered the U.S. Capitol building during the riot. She was not part of the initial breach but joined the crowd that had already forced its way inside. Video evidence showed her "in the middle of a crowd attempting to push past law enforcement officials to get inside".

## Time Spent Inside

Dr. Gold spent approximately 20 minutes inside the Capitol building. During this time, she made her way to the Rotunda, a central and symbolic location within the Capitol.

## Speech in the Rotunda

While inside the Capitol, Dr. Gold gave a speech in the Rotunda. The content of her speech was not widely reported, but it likely aligned with her previous statements about COVID-19 and vaccines, given her background as an anti-vaccine activist.

## Accompaniment

Dr. Gold was not alone in her actions. She entered the Capitol alongside John Strand, who was the Communications Director for America's Frontline Doctors, the organization Gold founded.

## Cancelled Speaking Engagement

It's worth noting that Dr. Gold was originally scheduled to speak at a "Rally for Health Freedom" on January 6th, but this event was cancelled. Her entry into the Capitol and subsequent speech in the Rotunda were not part of any official program or planned event.

## Aftermath

Following her actions on January 6th, Dr. Gold faced legal consequences. She was arrested on January 18th, 2021, and later pleaded guilty to knowingly entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds. She was sentenced to 60 days in prison and fined $9,500 for her role in the events.

---
Answer from Perplexity: pplx.ai/share


What were the key arguments Dr. Simone Gold used to defend herself regarding January 6th


Dr. Simone Gold used several key arguments to defend herself regarding her actions on January 6th, 2021:

## Lack of Intent

Gold claimed that she did not intend to participate in a destructive event. She stated that entering the Capitol was "the opposite of who I am" and expressed regret for being there, saying it could detract from her work with America's Frontline Doctors[1].

## Unaware of Illegality

Gold argued that she did not know it was illegal to enter the Capitol building. She stated that she was unaware she was breaking any laws by going inside[1][5].

## Peaceful Presence

Gold asserted that she did not witness any violence during her time in the Capitol. She described the area where she was as "incredibly peaceful"[1].

## Swept into the Crowd

According to a statement from America's Frontline Doctors, Gold had traveled to Washington D.C. to speak at a "health freedom" rally when she got "swept into" the Capitol[3].

## Planned Speech

Gold maintained that once inside the Capitol, she decided to give the speech she had originally planned for the cancelled "Rally for Health Freedom"[3][5].

## Brief Stay and Compliance

Gold emphasized that she spent only about 20 minutes inside the Capitol and left when asked to do so[3][5].

## Political Targeting

America's Frontline Doctors, Gold's organization, claimed she was a victim of selective prosecution based on her political views and anti-vaccine stance. They argued that her arrest represented "inequitable treatment based upon political preference"[3].

Despite these arguments, it's important to note that Gold ultimately pleaded guilty to knowingly entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds. The judge in her case also explicitly stated that her anti-vaccine beliefs were not a factor in her sentencing[1][3].

Citations:
[1] https://www.courthousenews.com/anti-vac ... itol-riot/
[2] https://knightcolumbia.org/content/the- ... falsehoods
[3] https://www.businessinsider.com/anti-va ... ted-2022-6
[4] https://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-simone-gol ... d=85445732
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Gold
[6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcdSVbq9vTU
[7] https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/nati ... 07e3c1b2a7
[8] https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... story.html
[9] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... -rcna33938
[10] https://ma1.mdedge.com/content/anti-vac ... pitol-riot
[11] https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/ ... tition.pdf
[12] https://apnews.com/article/capitol-sieg ... f7173a369b
[13] https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/16/politics ... index.html
[14] https://www.instagram.com/cnnpolitics/p ... poQ/?hl=en
[15] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/04/worl ... -riot.html
[16] https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/975755
[17] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... sentenced/
[18] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piRGUCbmTH4

---
Answer from Perplexity: pplx.ai/share

[I Shrugged]

If we believe the prosecutions were mishandled by Biden's DOJ, but we still believe in rule of law as a cornerstone of society.....
then why not re-open all the cases and re-prosecute them the "right" way?

Is that even possible, legally?

Logistically there were, what, 1500 cases? Just to review them all would take years. The vast majority of them, if not all, were handled the same way as hers. I do feel that he could have commuted, not pardoned. But the swat-style arrests, perp walks, and heavy handed prosecutions have led to the pardons. The FBI and DOJ need to be ethically cleansed.

[yankees60]

What have been the range of sentences for those involved in January 6?

The sentences for those involved in the January 6 Capitol riot have varied widely, ranging from probation to lengthy prison terms. Here's an overview of the sentencing outcomes:

## Prison Sentences

The most severe sentences have been reserved for those convicted of serious crimes such as seditious conspiracy and violent assaults on law enforcement officers.

- **Longest Sentences:**
- Enrique Tarrio (Proud Boys leader): 22 years[3]
- Stewart Rhodes (Oath Keepers leader): 18 years[1]
- David Nicholas Dempsey: 20 years for repeatedly attacking police with makeshift weapons[3]

- **Other Notable Sentences:**
- Kelly Meggs: 12 years[1]
- Patrick McCaughey: 7.5 years for pinning a police officer in a doorway[1]
- Kyle Young: Over 7 years for assaulting a police officer[1]
- Albuquerque Cosper Head: 7.5 years for assaulting a police officer[1]
- Guy Reffitt: 7.25 years, the first Jan. 6 defendant to go to trial[1]
- Thomas Robertson: 7 years and 3 months[1]
- Julian Khater: Over 6 years for pepper-spraying police officers[1]
- Michael Sparks: 53 months (about 4.4 years) for being the first to breach the Capitol[4]

## Shorter Sentences and Alternative Punishments

- **Median Sentence:** 60 days in prison for those sentenced within the first year after the attack[6]
- **Other Punishments:** Home detention, fines, probation, and community service[6]

## Recent Developments

As of November 2024, federal prosecutors have secured over 1,100 convictions, with more than 600 rioters receiving prison sentences[2]. The range of sentences continues to vary based on the severity of the crimes committed.

## Potential Changes

It's important to note that on January 22, 2025, President Donald Trump signed an executive order pardoning approximately 1,500 Jan. 6 rioters and commuting the sentences of 14 individuals, including leaders of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers[5]. This action has significantly altered the sentencing landscape for those involved in the Capitol riot.

Citations:
[1] https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/3 ... g-00099158
[2] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... rcna178505
[3] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/m ... n-sentence
[4] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgedz9lrld8o
[5] https://6abc.com/post/zach-rehl-case-tr ... /15821101/
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_ ... tol_attack
[7] https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/43-mont ... ck-capitol
[8] https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/26/politics ... index.html
[9] https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/22/politics ... index.html
[10] https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/96547204 ... ir-stories
[11] https://www.npr.org/2025/01/30/nx-s1-52 ... ns-rioters
[12] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-attorne ... ranscript/
[13] https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... sentences/
[14] https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/20/politics ... index.html
[15] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ation.html
[16] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... rs-prison/
[17] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/j ... -in-prison
[18] https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/four ... tol-breach
[19] https://apnews.com/article/capitol-riot ... e5bcc45324
[20] https://www.shu.edu/news/a-demographic- ... tions.html

---
Answer from Perplexity: pplx.ai/share

[glennds]

The plot thickens a little if you consider that 79% of those convicted for Jan 6th pleaded guilty. Theoretically the power of pardon is intended to right the wrong of the innocent person who has been convicted. But how does that square with a person who pleaded guilty.

I expect the answer will be that those that pleaded guilty were being abused by a corrupt Justice Dept and thus did so under duress.

It's also hard to square the plight of Officer Michael Fanone, a DC metro cop on duty who was beaten to a brain injury, dragged out of the Capitol, then shot with his own taser which in turn triggered a cardiac arrest (which he thankfully survived).
How is he served by justice when the individuals who assaulted him were among those pardoned?

I would have like to have seen at least those individuals excluded from the pardon and maybe re-prosecuted if there is a concern they were unfairly handled.
I could get behind a stretch case that storming and vandalizing the building was some symbolic form of speech, but it shouldn't be acceptable to extend that argument to physical assault, especially law enforcement officers.